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Didn't get it.
Topic Started: Jul 19 2005, 12:08 PM (432 Views)
Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
The synagogue project we'd been going after, that is.

We did some preliminary design & programming work for them about three years ago, then someone (the owner of the Limited Brands) donated architectural services to them. Then, two & a half years later, we were being considered again. After 6 months, two different written proposals, being shortlisted, & giving a verbal presentation, I was told today that while it isn't definite yet, apparently another firm is going to be awarded the project. Disappointing, but fair enough. I gave a good proposal, had the confidence of the rabbi, did the legwork, and gave as good a verbal interview as I could have hoped for - if I didn't get the job, it wouldn't be because I'd left part of my game in the locker room before the game, as it were.

The rabbi told me that he still liked me better than any of the other proposers, saying that he thought I was more intelligent, innovative, and creative, and "got" the project better than them. But, the other firm has a staff of 50, and would definitely be able to more than adequately staff the job - and what if, God forbid, something should happen to you during our project? (BTW, never ask an architect this question. I can tell you that the first thing an architect thinks when he's asked that question is, "What the hell do I care, I'll be dead." Any other answer is just a lie.)

I wanted to say that I was a small firm when you met me, I was a small firm during the whole of the last three years, and I'm a small firm now. At not point during this process have I not been a small firm. If you didn't want a small firm, why the bloddy hell did you waste your time, and mine, going through this whole process?

I wanted to say several other things.

What I said was thanks. Thanks for at least the opportunity to consider me. Thanks for the personal compliments (I suppose when I'm the most qualified architect in the state on food stamps, the kind words will be some consolation). Thanks for a very pleasant friendship that spanned a three year period. I said that I knew the other firm, and they're good, and they'll do a fine job. I said that I wished him & his project well, and I meant it.

But damn, it hurts like someone has torn your flesh off your body, to want a project as badly as I wanted this one and worked for, only to be told that you aren't wanted for it.

So, a little neosporin, a few bandages, and you dust yourself off and keep moving - on to the next one.

But damn, it still hurts. You know it isn't true, but in reality, "you're not big enough" = "you aren't good enough." The distinction between "you aren't good enough" and "you're good enough but no one will let you do it" is a meaningless distinction.

Some days, I hate this job. I'll love it again tomorrow, but not today.

Here's a toast to tomorrow.

Vent over; thank you for listening. ;)
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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The 89th Key
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I'm glad you are able to understand that you did the best you could. This wasn't your fault in the least bit.

Sometimes that's the way it goes...sorry to hear about it, Dwain.
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Chris Aher
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Middle Aged Carp
Dwain,

Sorry to here this. I remember you talking about this a few years back. I hpoe bigger & better things are in store.

Regards,
Chris
Regards,
Chris
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sarah_blueparrot
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Fulla-Carp
Dwain Lee
Jul 19 2005, 12:08 PM
But damn, it still hurts. You know it isn't true, but in reality, "you're not big enough" = "you aren't good enough."

Dwain, whatever happened, you seem to be strong enough, and that's the most important thing. :)
Death is simply a shedding of the physical body like the butterfly shedding its cocoon. It is a transition to a higher state of consciousness where you continue to perceive, to understand, to laugh, and to be able to grow.

- Dr. Elizabeth Kubler-Ross
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
At least you've got your health.... :sombrero:
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Dwain.. I know what will cheer you up.. we'll go TP Les W.'s house.. but it'll take a LOT of TP! :devil:
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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FrankM
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Senior Carp
Dwain,

This might make you feel better or it might make you feel worse. Of course, it might not apply at all in your case, although it is not far from universal practice.

I’ve been on both the contract awarding and contract receiving end in my career. The standard practice for a variety of reasons, including lawsuit avoidance, is to tell the losing contractor(s) that they were terrific but that they lost on a technicality really outside their control.

All too often, the contract winner is chosen early in the game, but (pseudo-)competition is encouraged and presumably maintained, for business reasons, until contract award.

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Amanda
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Senior Carp
Sounds rough, Dwain. That was a big job.

If I were you - and I may not be getting something about the trade end of things - I might try to learn something from this to apply to future proposals.
Does this sound like it might work?

If up for consideration for a similar scale project (preliminary basis), what might happen if you said something like:
"Before I start work on a proposal for you, I'd appreciate the opportunity to clarify a few things.

"I'm good - me and my people. We've never let a client down, and we have a list of satisfied customers who can attest to both our performance and reliability.

As firms go, we're not one of the biggest. That's a plus for our kind of client. Personal attention, the boss - me - intimately involved with the job from the first to the last. Unparallelled oversight and accountability, at the same time that I have excellent personnel to whom I can delegate with full confidence.

If you want size, though, we're not your team. It's fairer to both of us perhaps to clarify that from square one so neither of us wastes our time on a collaboration which wasn't meant to be."

(variations as per the lingo, norms etc.)

It may not win you any jobs, but it probably won't lose you any (?). And in any case, you won't experience the kind of heartbreak and waste of time involved this time around.

Is this a live and learn situation - or do you feel you always have to get your foot in the door in hopes of winning over desirable prospects you might not otherwise get? Seems to me, on the surface, that there might be a way to say it so that it would be blowing your own horn (discreetly) and even suggesting a certain selectivity on your own part. Usually this is appealing in any area, if done well.

Sympathy. :pirate2:
[size=5]
We should tolerate eccentricity in others, almost to the point of lunacy, provided no one else is harmed.
[/size]

"Daily Telegraph", London July 27 2005
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
Mikhailoh
Jul 19 2005, 01:24 PM
Dwain.. I know what will cheer you up.. we'll go TP Les W.'s house.. but it'll take a LOT of TP! :devil:

Heh, heh, yeah, a truckload... and I know where it is, too, it's right up the road from me. Actually, he didn't have anything to do with this selection process (his "favored son" was also shortlisted, but he apparently isn't being selected either). After an hour or so of disappointment, I really don't wish them any ill. They'll get a great project, the other guys are very good. Still, regarding the TP'ing, to quote a scene from that movie I was flakking in another thread:

"Wait a minute...what good is this going to do?"
"Nothin'... it'll just make ya feel a lot better!"

:D

"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
LOL, Amanda, you just recited a stock part of many of my presentations.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Here's to commisseration!

I have lost jobs for the most strange reasons -- which make me think that perhaps I win them for strange reasons as well...

The obvious problem with big firms on specialty jobs like a synagogue is that the back room cranks it out -- you would I am sure give a much better project for the buck. Yet that can be a hard one to convince some clients of.

BTW -- are you licensed in Tennessee?
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
No - Ohio, Pennsylvania, New York, Illinois, Virginia, and Minnesota. Thanks to asymmetric licensing laws (damn states' rights ;) ), I'm deemed competent to design a high-rise office building in downtown Albany, but I'm not qualified to design a U-Store-It in Atlanta.

Not sure if I'd be elegible in TN. I'm in an "NCARB notch," with a BS and tons of work experience, but *0.6 years' worth* too little before the NCARB cutoff date (don't remember when that was) for "Buff Cover" status, so I'm ruled out of states that only recognize NCARB Certification for reciprocity.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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FrankM
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Senior Carp
Often, when the customer lacks the expertise to comfortably evaluate the bidders' capabilities, they’ll go for some other characteristic that makes them feel more secure in their decision, such as size and/or long term reputation in the field. That’s why, for example, a company like IBM will often beat out more qualified competition. How can those you report to really blame you if and when an IBM screws up the job?

In my particular field, one would think technical expertise as well as most bang per buck would be the main considerations. But I soon learned that it takes years cultivating and tutoring clients so as to tilt them in the direction of your technical strengths as well as gain confidence in you. My best success came when I effectively wrote the requirements and specifications for the contract I’d be bidding on.

Might any of that apply in your business too? Only you can judge that.
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Mikhailoh
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
Dwain,

Small potatoes.. but I need an addition to my home drawn out.. and maybe some other work. We should discuss if you are interested.
Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball
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Steve Miller
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Bull-Carp
A tough break, Dwain. I feel your pain.

My own version of your story happened last year: "Yes, you have been doing our work for 15 years and know more about our business than anyone, but now that it is time for us to go outside for property management we have selected a large firm".

I've no doubt that you handled it with class and style, even as you wanted to start throwing chairs.
Wag more
Bark less
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
"Yes, you have been doing our work for 15 years and know more about our business than anyone, but now that it is time for us to go outside for property management we have selected a large firm".

:veryangry:


"I've no doubt that you handled it with class and style, even as you wanted to start throwing chairs."

And it would have been hard, too, since I was talking to the rabbi while driving down the road in my truck.

Ah well. This too, like a kidney stone, shall pass. :D

PS: You owe me an email Steve, I have something to send you.
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
FrankM
Jul 19 2005, 01:33 PM
Dwain,

This might make you feel better or it might make you feel worse. Of course, it might not apply at all in your case, although it is not far from universal practice.

I’ve been on both the contract awarding and contract receiving end in my career. The standard practice for a variety of reasons, including lawsuit avoidance, is to tell the losing contractor(s) that they were terrific but that they lost on a technicality really outside their control.

All too often, the contract winner is chosen early in the game, but (pseudo-)competition is encouraged and presumably maintained, for business reasons, until contract award.

Smart man.
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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