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| open letter to tom k; from WTC, by John Andrew | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 19 2005, 05:29 AM (1,698 Views) | |
| bachophile | Jul 19 2005, 05:29 AM Post #1 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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EDIT please note this posting was quoted by me by my own decision, because i felt it was well written and the message needed to be said here. I was not requested by anyone to do this. Tom, I, for one, am tired of your baiting those here who are Jewish, who have a deep love for Israel, and who fear for her existence as well as fear a repeat of the historical treatment of Jews. I am not Jewish. I have serious problems with the way the Israeli government is treating the Palestinian people and have expressed them here. I also recognize that Israel has done an excellent job in representing herself in the United States in order to maintain US support. I see nothing wrong with Israel having done this. She has needed the US to provide her the military hardware and diplomatic support. I do not agree with all the US has done for or about Israel, but I understand Israel's actions to maintain this support. I also understand why American Jews, whether they are in positions of power or not, seek to have a positive and supportive US foreign policy towards Israel. As someone aligned with the Roman Church, I expect the US government to have a positive and supportive policy towards the Catholic Church and I would expect those Catholics in this country, whether they are in positions of power or not, want and seek the same. I request that you stop the baiting. As you well know, terms such and the International Zionist Conspiracy harkens back to the fraudulent defamation of the Jewish people for centuries and especially in the latter 1800's and well not the 1900's that led to the Holocaust. I also request that you stop the comparisons of Israeli policy towards the Palestinians equating it with the Nazi policy towards the Jews in Germany. The Jews were no threat to the Nazi's. While I disagree with Isareli actions towards the Palestinian people, I have seen enough of the actions of the Israeli government to know that if they could separate the average Palestinian from the ones who might walk into downtown Jerusalem and blow themselves up just to kill Jews, they would focus their actions against those people alone. There is no valid comparison between the Nazi treatment of the Jews and the Jewish treatment of the Palestinians. I would also request you stop the comparisons of fetus' being politically determined to be non-human and the Nazi determination that Jews were less than human. You and I both believe that the fetus is human at the time of conception because God created an immortal soul. There is no way for either of us to prove what we believe. To even make such a comparison with any ethnic group is quite simply bigotry at worst and demogogery at best. I would also request you cease the comparisons between the Israeli treatment of Palestinians and the apartheid in South Africa, for much the same reason I expressed above about Nazi Germany. For decades, the Israeli Knissett has had Palestinian and Arab members and Palestinians and Arabs have lived and worked and propsered in Israel -- much of this ending only in the past few years as the suicide bombings have gotten worse. South Africa would never allow blacks anywhere close to such a thing, even when they posed no threat to the established order. When dealing with serious issues, WTF is meant to provide for open and honest discussion. This is not a place where it is appropriate to go for the jugular, for the most sensitive aspects of people's beliefs, purely to bait, goad, anger, hurt or stop discussion. I have read you doing this for weeks now and the only impact I have seen it really have is to make it virtually impossible for any of us to have a serious discussion about Israel, Judaism or the Palestinians. WTF is not the place for this. You and I are members of different branches a Church which has finally, after centuries of ignorance and hypocrisy, defined anti-semiticism as a grave sin. I don't know if you are in fact anti-semitic or not, but your sure sound like it. You may wish to examine your conscience. I speak only for myself and no one else in this forum. But I am highly offended by what you are doing. I have not reported your posts yet, but I believe you are breaking the main rule of WTF, which states: Treat each person with respect. Treat the group with respect. In the rules of this forum, there is this request "If you believe another poster has behaved inappropriately, consider expressing your opinion on the thread or communicating with the poster privately. If you believe you must bring it to the attention of the moderators, use the 'Report Post' feature and state whether you have spoken with the poster privately." I have now spoken to you publicly and requested you stop what you are doing. If you continue, I will email you privately and request you stop. If you continue after that, I will start to report your posts to the moderators and let them take whatever action they deem apporopriate. When I do so, I will also email to them the private exchanges we may have if I need to privately ask you to stop. Tom, you and I disagree with each other on many things. But we have, in the past, shared our common faith and our common commitment to the Roman Church. You are a better man than this. You are a better Catholic than this. Your point has been made. It is time to stop. I personally would appreciate it if you do. John Andrew |
| "I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen | |
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| Jolly | Jul 19 2005, 06:01 AM Post #2 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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Are you carrying water for the infamous Mr. Andrew? I personally don't care what the folks at WTF care to discuss over their tea and crumpets, and I surely don't care whether ol' TomK grabbed 'em by the back of their panties, took a turn and a dally around the saddlehorn, and rode off in the sunset with 'em flapping and squalling in the breeze. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| bachophile | Jul 19 2005, 06:12 AM Post #3 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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well, sorry, but i beg to differ. |
| "I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen | |
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| Larry | Jul 19 2005, 06:24 AM Post #4 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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I have no idea what Tom has written over there. But I do know that having John Andrew call someone on the carpet for writing offensive and baiting posts is the pot calling the kettle black. |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| bachophile | Jul 19 2005, 06:30 AM Post #5 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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ill tell u the truth, i dont even know john andrew. but i noticed that tom has seemed to slowed down here for a while and exported his ugliness over there. at least there someone had the balls to tell him in a civil way, that whatever his views (and i will suppport everyones right to every view including yahabpo) as long as the intent is to be civil and not hateful, its fine. its the erotic pleasure at being hateful that i find disgusting in tk. (and he of course will deny this to the end of the earth, but too many people here, both privately and publicly agree with me on this) |
| "I don't know much about classical music. For years I thought the Goldberg Variations were something Mr. and Mrs. Goldberg did on their wedding night." Woody Allen | |
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| justme | Jul 19 2005, 06:42 AM Post #6 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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FWIW, I respect and admire John Andrew's letter. It's very well written and he extends an olive branch by mentioning his and Tom's shared religion. JA's trying to handle this as a gentleman in a language Tom understands. I only wish JA could have felt comfortable enough to have posted it himself. My only hope is Tom reacts in the same gentlemanly manner. He may or he may not. You never know with Tom. |
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"Men sway more towards hussies." G-D3 | |
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| TomK | Jul 19 2005, 06:43 AM Post #7 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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John and bach, I'm not baiting. I'm discussing. I've broken no rules, have I? I treat everyone with personal respect and kindness. I discuss issues, bach and JA. Not either of you personally. Why do you attack me personally? Are there subjects I'm not allowed to talk about? I would appreciate you posting a list of them so we ALL know what they are. John, you seem to feel the need to "lecture" me on what YOU think is appropriate for me to post on a regular basis. If I remembered correctly you were ever censored the last time for your comments which turned into a personal attack. And bach, when is attacking the politics of a cdertain country the same as attacking YOU. You my friend, are not the State of Israel. From what I understand I am following the rules of the WTF and TNCR. Please advise me of your "additional" rules. In Peace and Love, TomK |
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| QuirtEvans | Jul 19 2005, 06:47 AM Post #8 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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Tom, for what it's worth, I don't think you've violated any rules. Think of it as a request, maybe that way you will feel better about it. It's within your rights to make those posts, but someone is asking you to refrain from exercising your rights in that way. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| Mikhailoh | Jul 19 2005, 06:53 AM Post #9 |
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If you want trouble, find yourself a redhead
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JA requesting someone not post things offensive to him, and expecting someone to have sensitivity to that. Wow. Now it's official.. I've seen everything. |
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Once in his life, every man is entitled to fall madly in love with a gorgeous redhead - Lucille Ball | |
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| FrankM | Jul 19 2005, 06:57 AM Post #10 |
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Senior Carp
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I will agree that sometimes people need to be hit square in the face with a two-by-four before they might really hear what people are trying to tell them. I did it at least once in my message to Jews in this country about sending out the wrong signals that will only serve to torpedo their agenda in the long run. I’m sure many took my post as being anti-Semitic. And the truth is I later regretted making that post because it is far too sensitive a topic to not be easily misunderstood by even reasonable people like bach, Amanda and pianojerome. To reject JA’s praiseworthy post because of similar transgressions by JA in TOCR is ridiculously petty. I once referred to this place as a neighborhood tavern. I think I now see it more as a nursery school. In any event, I don’t look in on WTF anymore so I’ll have to take bach’s word for it. Tom, we’ve exchanged PMs in the past and I know the good guy you really are at heart. But I’m now going to plead with you to please back off here. You’ve made your point using a two-by-four. Let it go now. Why would you want to keep hurting people like that? Forget Jeffrey. Amanda posts about Larry offending Muslims and apparently never saw Jeffrey in TOCR not only vilifying all Muslims but also the entire non-Jewish mid-east culture. Jeffrey has his own separate agenda, and it's called "Jeffrey." But why continue to offend so many others because of one individual. |
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| Mark | Jul 19 2005, 06:58 AM Post #11 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Some people measure way too high on the PCSS. |
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___.___ (_]===* o 0 When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells | |
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| FrankM | Jul 19 2005, 07:15 AM Post #12 |
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Senior Carp
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and some people hide behind the anonymity of the internet to express the kind of pseudo-macho bravado that, in person, would leave them with a cracked skull, bleeding on the streets of Brooklyn. This place is full of pussies posing as men. later edit: just to make things clear, that comment was not directed at Tom |
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| justme | Jul 19 2005, 07:36 AM Post #13 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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From what I understand JA originally posted this letter in the WTF and had no intentions of posting it here. It was posted here after bach requested to do so. Therefore, IMHO, the letter is very appropriate and is a simple request. Tom has every right to respond how he wants to. |
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"Men sway more towards hussies." G-D3 | |
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| Larry | Jul 19 2005, 07:42 AM Post #14 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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Gee.... I hope you weren't including me in that pussy part. I assure you that I'll walk down any street of Brooklyn you want me to, and come out just fine. |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| Dewey | Jul 19 2005, 07:50 AM Post #15 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I may have just found a new sig line.
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| FrankM | Jul 19 2005, 07:51 AM Post #16 |
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Senior Carp
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Larry, That post was made to purposely bewilder people. "Gee what does he mean by that?" "Does he mean me?" "Is he really mad?" "Over what?" It's one of my perverse ways of having fun. I admit I blew my cool once in the OCR. I'm basically immune to that now. If I could only accomplish that in real life.
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| jon-nyc | Jul 19 2005, 07:58 AM Post #17 |
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Cheers
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHA I triple-dare ya! |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| FrankM | Jul 19 2005, 08:05 AM Post #18 |
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Senior Carp
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geez, maybe i should consider copyrighting it. |
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| Jolly | Jul 19 2005, 08:07 AM Post #19 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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You would.... Didn't they run you out of Texas for stealing hogs? |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| jodi | Jul 19 2005, 08:11 AM Post #20 |
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Fulla-Carp
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This has GOT to be my all time favorite line from any of these forums. AHAHAHAHA! ![]() Jodi
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Jodimy artlog ~ todayatmydesk.weebly.com | |
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| Jolly | Jul 19 2005, 08:22 AM Post #21 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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Man proposes, God disposes. IMNSHO, Mr. Andrews has never cared for much beyond his personal opinion of the world. Therefore, if Tommy wants to fight fire with fire, especially since this matter does not pertain to this forum, ...why, hoist the Jolly Roger and take no prisoners. Arrrgh!
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| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| katie | Jul 19 2005, 08:40 AM Post #22 |
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Fulla-Carp
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OMG, this needs to be said again! A classic ... one for the archives. I love it! ![]() |
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| Amanda | Jul 19 2005, 09:20 AM Post #23 |
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Senior Carp
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Jolly:
Fire? What fire? |
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[size=5] We should tolerate eccentricity in others, almost to the point of lunacy, provided no one else is harmed.[/size] "Daily Telegraph", London July 27 2005 | |
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| apple | Jul 19 2005, 09:50 AM Post #24 |
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one of the angels
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i love it too... |
| it behooves me to behold | |
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| Jolly | Jul 19 2005, 10:01 AM Post #25 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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Buy a clue, young'un.
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| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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Jodi


8:36 AM Jul 13