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| Where's the outrage?; question to you conservatives | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 18 2005, 12:38 PM (715 Views) | |
| jon-nyc | Jul 18 2005, 12:38 PM Post #1 |
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Cheers
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FOXNews and other news organizations are REFUSING to use the word TERRORIST to describe Eric Rudolph. Where's the outrage? Come on, folks, bring it on! |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| Jolly | Jul 18 2005, 12:39 PM Post #2 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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What did they call him? An insurgent? |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| jon-nyc | Jul 18 2005, 12:41 PM Post #3 |
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Cheers
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Hell, FOXNews probably called him a freedom-fighter. |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| The 89th Key | Jul 18 2005, 12:55 PM Post #4 |
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There are two factors playing against him here: A) The legislative process regarding the criminalizing of abortion hasn't been exhausted yet. B) It's not universally supported that abortion is killing babies. Both are reasons why this man is a terrorist and/or a vigilante. I support, for example, the Iraq War, WWII, etc...because all other options had been exhausted AND it was generally supported that we were fighting evil. As you can see, those prerequisites aren't applicable in this situation, thus rendering Rudolph's actions wrong. |
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| Dewey | Jul 18 2005, 01:04 PM Post #5 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Eric Rudolph is most definitely a terrrorist, who perpetrated despicable acts to try to scare people into conforming to his will. Regardless of any irony, regardless of whether one supports or opposes abortion, his actions were appalingly misguided and shouldn't be condoned even in the slightest, even with a wink & a nudge ("oh sure, what he did was wrong, but..."). Eric Rudolph is a terrorist, simply for a different cause than others, and Fox News should call him that - and so should other news networks. Are they? CNN: "convicted serial bomber" Reuters: "Convicted Olympic bomber...abortion foe...survivalist" ABC:"An unrepentant Eric Rudolph" CBS: "Abortion Clinic Bomber...unrepentant Eric Rudolph" MSNBC: "Defiant serial bomber...unrepentant Eric Rudolph" |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| jon-nyc | Jul 18 2005, 01:08 PM Post #6 |
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Cheers
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Kudos to you Dwain. I haven't seen enough coverage to know who is using the word, if anyone. Fox didn't, and AP didn't. Frankly, I suspect the US press has pretty much reserved the word 'terrorist' for Arabs and/or muslims. |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| JBryan | Jul 18 2005, 01:16 PM Post #7 |
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I am the grey one
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I suspect none of the media are calling him a terrorist although they should. However, all but Fox should probably get a pass since they never call anyone a terrorist. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| The 89th Key | Jul 18 2005, 01:17 PM Post #8 |
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I agree with you Dwain, I hope you didn't get the wrong impression of my post. In an obviously-impossible example: I meant, that if a government was allowing the drowning of one-month olds, and someone killed those who were drowning the infants...I would support that. But in this case, non-violent and legislative means are still available AND the abortions are not generally accepted as murders...thus qualifying Rudolph as a terrorist. |
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| jon-nyc | Jul 18 2005, 01:32 PM Post #9 |
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Cheers
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THis qualification is chilling, 89. It shouldn't matter what his cause was, or where it sits legislatively or in popular esteem. Intentionally targeting civilians to promote a political cause is terrorism, plain and simple. |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| jon-nyc | Jul 18 2005, 01:34 PM Post #10 |
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Cheers
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JB - If I recall correclty NYT, WaPo, WSJ, THe Economist, and FT all use 'terrorist'. I think its Reuters who doesn't at all and BBC who is of two minds on it. |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| Dewey | Jul 18 2005, 01:34 PM Post #11 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Well, what's really running through many people's heads - those who oppose, or are troubled by, abortion as used in today's society, and yet who are appalled by Eric Rudolph's actions - is "the Bonhoeffer Question." At one time a pacifist, over time the German theologian realized that there is some point where one's dedication to a moral issue must transcend civil law. As he put it, if a person sees a runaway wagon about to crush some bystander, we have an obligation not to merely bandage them up once they've been crushed, but rather, to throw a spke in the wheel to stop the accident before it happens. So, does Eric Rudolph = Dietrich Bonhoeffer? Hardly, in my opinion. The line that had to be drawn, in Bonhoeffer's mind, was that all legal means to change the offensive situation must first be exhausted, before it was morally acceptable to "throw a spoke in the wheel;" and even in that case, the line would only include going after the actual perpetrators of the immorality, not random victims. And kudos to 89th for making that very good point. Sadly, there are times when standing up for moral positions is ugly. But Eric Rudolph's actions should never be confused to be anything even near being one of those times. |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| JBryan | Jul 18 2005, 01:37 PM Post #12 |
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I am the grey one
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Perhaps you are right. Then none of these should be let off the hook. |
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"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
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| jon-nyc | Jul 18 2005, 01:38 PM Post #13 |
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Cheers
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But targeting civilians? Dwain, do you think there's a point at which this line can be crossed? |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| Dewey | Jul 18 2005, 01:39 PM Post #14 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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not at all Jon, we're confounding each other between my editing for clarity!
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| apple | Jul 18 2005, 01:47 PM Post #15 |
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one of the angels
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..i don't know that we try to manipulate the press as much as you guys do |
| it behooves me to behold | |
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| The 89th Key | Jul 18 2005, 02:19 PM Post #16 |
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I think in Rudolph's mind, they weren't civilians...they were murderers, killing babies. |
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| jon-nyc | Jul 18 2005, 02:21 PM Post #17 |
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Cheers
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Random people at the olympics? And didn't he attack a gay bar too? |
| In my defense, I was left unsupervised. | |
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| The 89th Key | Jul 18 2005, 02:23 PM Post #18 |
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All attacks were wrong, but I was referring to the abortion clinics. |
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| Dewey | Jul 18 2005, 02:58 PM Post #19 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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No, Rudolph is a misguided moron, and yes, very much a terrorist. I despise him not only for his actions, but for the fact that his actions cause demonizing of anyone who would call for changes to US abortion law. But the larger issue - that, regardless of what the particular issue, determining where fighting for one's chosen morality would demand civil disobedience - or even, in extreme circumstances like Bonhoeffer's, civil rebellion - is an intriguing question to consider. |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| Rick Zimmer | Jul 18 2005, 03:03 PM Post #20 |
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Fulla-Carp
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Actually, I don't care so much about the press. I am waiting for all of the right wing Christian religious leaders in this country to condemn him for what he is. After all, we keep hearing that Islam is a dangerous religion because their leaders never condemn Islamic terrorists loud enough. So, where is the leadership of the Southern Baptist Convention's condemnation of its terrorists? |
| [size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size] | |
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| The 89th Key | Jul 18 2005, 03:05 PM Post #21 |
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Interesting point Dwain. If my wife decided she was going to have an abortion, and there was nothing I could do about it (a very legal option out there)...I could see myself killing the doctor about to abort my kid. Just as if I saw someone grab my kid in the pool and start to hold his head under water maliciously...I could see myself going over there and breaking the guy's neck. Both in the heat of the moment, but both very real scenarios. |
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| The 89th Key | Jul 18 2005, 03:07 PM Post #22 |
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Again, I'm not defending Rudolph at all, I think he is evil. I think why people might be more hesitant to point the "terrorist" finger at Rudolph as opposed to Bin Laden, is because Rudolph was killing people who kill humans. Bin Laden is killing innocent victims who are guilty by association, not by reality. |
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| Rick Zimmer | Jul 18 2005, 03:16 PM Post #23 |
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Fulla-Carp
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You mean the Southern Baptist Convention would not deem him a terrorist because he killed those providing abortions? Fascinating distinction. I think I'll check my Gospels and see just where this distinction is. |
| [size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size] | |
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| LadyElton | Jul 18 2005, 03:39 PM Post #24 |
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Fulla-Carp
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Wasn't Rudolph also behind a bombing at a gay nightclub? |
| Hilary aka LadyElton | |
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| Dewey | Jul 18 2005, 04:17 PM Post #25 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Yes, and at the Olympics as well. Not sure where those fall into his anti-abortion agenda - which, of course, just goes to show he's more of a sociopath than someone making, or standing up for, some political or moral position. His own inconsistency, if nothing else, damns him. |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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8:54 AM Jul 13