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Did The CIA "Out" Valerie Plame?
Topic Started: Jul 18 2005, 07:11 AM (689 Views)
JBryan
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I am the grey one
This is as much an indictment of our news media as an anatomy of a manufactured scandal:

Did The CIA "Out" Valerie Plame?
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Steve Miller
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Bull-Carp
Gotta love NRO.
Wag more
Bark less
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!

Let's see:
CIA
National Security
Politics
Media

I think we'll have better odds reaching a consensus on religion.
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
Steve Miller
Jul 18 2005, 10:14 AM
Gotta love NRO.

Do you have any comments on the actual facts presented or do you just step back and shoot the messenger?
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
The Plame story is nothing more than politics. Has been all along.

Most folks who buy this stuff are the same ones watching the Weather Channel guys do the "storm of the century" stuff everytime we get a stiff breeze in the Gulf.

Gotta get those ratings somehow.....
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
Another view of Yellowcake Joe:

http://www.suntimes.com/output/steyn/cst-edt-steyn17.html
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
JBryan
Jul 18 2005, 11:11 AM
This is as much an indictment of our news media as an anatomy of a manufactured scandal:

Did The CIA "Out" Valerie Plame?

Out her to whom?

It appears Mr. Rove informed Mr. Cooper of her existence.

Which means that the GOP talking points you were parrotting last week are, ah, no longer operative.

In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
Keep up, Jon. The CIA inadvertently revealed her to the Cubans a couple of years before Rove ever talked to Cooper. The Russians found out about her 7 years before this flap began. Plame was about as secret as anyone who drives right through the CIA gate to work every day (which is just what she was doing lo these many years). It is not illegal to tell someone that a person works for the CIA unless they are under cover. Those are not talking points. Those are facts.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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Larry
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
Also, all her neighbors and friends knew she worked for the CIA. Another point is that she hadn't been an undercover operative for years. She worked a desk job at Langley, and could be seen coming and going from her job every single day.

Nope - the dimocraps have screwed up big time on this one.
Of the Pokatwat Tribe

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jon-nyc
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Cheers
JBryan
Jul 18 2005, 02:03 PM
Keep up, Jon. The CIA inadvertently revealed her to the Cubans a couple of years before Rove ever talked to Cooper. The Russians found out about her 7 years before this flap began. Plame was about as secret as anyone who drives right through the CIA gate to work every day (which is just what she was doing lo these many years). It is not illegal to tell someone that a person works for the CIA unless they are under cover. Those are not talking points. Those are facts.



Larry
Jul 18 2005
Also, all her neighbors and friends knew she worked for the CIA. Another point is that she hadn't been an undercover operative for years. She worked a desk job at Langley, and could be seen coming and going from her job every single day.

QED.

(in other words, your posts are just long, drawn out ways to say "that depends on what the definition of 'leak' is".)
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
Say what? Since when is divulging something known by anyone who is paying attention caklled a "leak". Let me "leak" something to you. It gets real bright when the sun comes up in the morning.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
JBryan
Jul 18 2005, 12:10 PM
Say what? Since when is divulging something known by anyone who is paying attention caklled a "leak". Let me "leak" something to you. It gets real bright when the sun comes up in the morning.

Shhhhh, JB. Don't let it out. Those who prefer to call themselves "rational thinking people" might not be able to handle it.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
you see, jon, there are leaks, and then there are LEAKS and of course there are leeks. this was a leak. it was not a LEAK, nor was it a leek. leaks are ok, and leeks are fine, especially when made into soup. the only one not allowed is a LEAK, which this definitely wasn't.


Oh - and IT - thanks for the concern, but those of us who look to science for answers rather than the words of ancient and ignorant pastoral tribesman already know about the sun rising tomorrow.




In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
Really? Who leaked it to you?
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
JB, that's between me and the grand jury. THere's an investigation going on. But i look forward to talking about it as soon as possible.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
Please, let us know when you can talk about this secret information known to all.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
You'll be the first to know.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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big al
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Bull-Carp
I'm with Jon on this particular item. Having read the tortured logic in the referenced article about what constitutes public revelation, I see another wagon joining the circle.

Big Al
Location: Western PA

"jesu, der simcha fun der man's farlangen."
-bachophile
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
Al,

If the purpose of the public disclosure law is to prevent our enemies from finding out our intelligence assets by way of public sources then why is it tortured logic to say that when they have acquired the same information directly from the source that obviates public disclosure?
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
JBryan
Jul 18 2005, 04:46 PM
Al,

If the purpose of the public disclosure law is to prevent our enemies from finding out our intelligence assets by way of public sources then why is it tortured logic to say that when they have acquired the same information directly from the source that obviates public disclosure?

Which is to say, this was a leak. Not a LEAK. Nor a leek.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
It is not pretty to see an otherwise intelligent person reduced to babbling.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
I'll say.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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big al
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Bull-Carp
JBryan
Jul 18 2005, 12:46 PM
Al,

If the purpose of the public disclosure law is to prevent our enemies from finding out our intelligence assets by way of public sources then why is it tortured logic to say that when they have acquired the same information directly from the source that obviates public disclosure?

Simply put, the acquisition of information by a third party by accidental or covert means is not equivalent to public disclosure, the deliberate revelation in a public forum or venue. Facts that may have been learned by one or more enemies may still be of importance to not reveal to others. We don't deliberately tell the Chinese things that we think an Israeli spy may have learned, for a hypothetical example.

Big Al
Location: Western PA

"jesu, der simcha fun der man's farlangen."
-bachophile
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
Psst, Jon, it is you who is babbling. I had thought you would have the wit to descern that. Apparently, I was mistaken.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
big al
Jul 18 2005, 04:02 PM
JBryan
Jul 18 2005, 12:46 PM
Al,

If the purpose of the public disclosure law is to prevent our enemies from finding out our intelligence assets by way of public sources then why is it tortured logic to say that when they have acquired the same information directly from the source that obviates public disclosure?

Simply put, the acquisition of information by a third party by accidental or covert means is not equivalent to public disclosure, the deliberate revelation in a public forum or venue. Facts that may have been learned by one or more enemies may still be of importance to not reveal to others. We don't deliberately tell the Chinese things that we think an Israeli spy may have learned, for a hypothetical example.

Big Al

Al, the Russians and the Cubans knew. Even if every other entity of concern did not know through them (unlikely) her cover was blown. There is nothing left to damage or compromise.

The fact that all her neighbors knew where she worked and she could be observed by anyone interested driving to CIA HQ every day should make it painfully obvious that no secret was being divulged in telling someone she worked for the CIA.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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