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| Question for evolutionarians.; ...is that even a word? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 17 2005, 08:31 AM (1,117 Views) | |
| ivorythumper | Jul 20 2005, 09:01 AM Post #76 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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I have to agree with Bux on this one (with several significant quals). It would have been better for him to have said "among the very worst". But first, Bux, please show me where the Catholics consider heresy and apostasy and blasphemy to be unforgivable. These are indeed, very bad, but for instance sedition is the worst of sins against the public order since it destroys the common good necessary for us to live in harmony in order that we might seek the perfections of human life including religion (against which are blasphemy, apostasy and heresy. Schism (a form of apostasy) is worse than heresy, since heresy is against the truth but schism is against love.
The argument for unforgivable sins was long put to rest. Even the sin of blasphemy or apostasy can be forgiven provided only that one sincerely repents. You are positing, in fact, a Donatist position that was continually condemned from the Council of Arles (311) through 5th century (notably Augustine).Similarly, the unforgiveness of Novatianism for idolatry was condemned in the 3rd century, though both these sects (and many more sub sects of "enthusiasts") continued into the 6th century. The meaning of "blasphemy against the Holy Spirit" is subject to interpretion, but no one has yet offered an absolute scenario where even this is unforgivable. You might consult Ambrose "On Repentance" to see the early disputations on the question.
Oops, my bad. Apologies. |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| ivorythumper | Jul 20 2005, 09:02 AM Post #77 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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:rolleyes: Citation please. |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| ivorythumper | Jul 20 2005, 09:07 AM Post #78 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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89th: All thinking is abstract. The topic is simply "religion". We are all doing (or striving for) "rhetoric" whenever we communicate. So what is your point? Simply to cross swords with Bux? I would put my money on him in that duel. |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| The 89th Key | Jul 20 2005, 09:40 AM Post #79 |
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Ivory, he would ask questions regarding God' rationale for certain actions or lack there of...and when he chooses not to accept answers found in the Bible, it's simply because he chooses not to understand the *abstract* answers surrounding God. For example if one said, what do you mean we'll live forever...certainly that's not true! It's because it's an abstract thought, and that one person isn't willing to accept certain conditions that aren't found on Earth. Everything has a beginning and an end on Earth, so living forever would understandably be an abstract thought, especially among those who choose not to believe in the Bible. See what I'm saying? |
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| ivorythumper | Jul 20 2005, 10:08 AM Post #80 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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I doubt that it is "simply" for that reason. The bible is not an exhaustive accounting of God's revelation of himself, and it is not a self contained answer book to the problems that Bux has with religion. He may well "understand" the answers, but if these answers are not pursuasive to him, he would be doing violence to his intellect to accept them without proof. The mind rests in the truth. The mind cannot rest unless it finds truth. I have no idea of where Bux is coming from, other than a "narcistheist" from an articulate and well reasoned atheist POV. But he seems reasonably well read, and his obvious fascination with religion (inferred from his web site) leads me to think that he has not yet rested in atheism. I might be wrong, but it is usually ex-smokers who preach against tabacco; and so many therapists and counsellors hang their shingle after going through their own crises. We'll see... |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| The 89th Key | Jul 20 2005, 12:37 PM Post #81 |
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Some abstract ideas, like suffering *forever* in Hell, are just that. And the Bible (nor anyone on Earth) has any proof that would even begin to convince an atheist that people do live forever in the afterlife...heaven or hell. Perhaps "understand" is a wrong word to describe an atheist's lack of acceptance of an abstract, religious concept. When proof can only go so far, it's inherently detrimental to the discussion to try and convince an atheist of an abstract idea when there's limited (if any) evidence to back up such abstract claims that we wacko Christians make. |
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| ivorythumper | Jul 20 2005, 12:40 PM Post #82 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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What's this "we", kemosabe? |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| The 89th Key | Jul 20 2005, 12:57 PM Post #83 |
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Oh sorry, I didn't mean to include myself in that nominative first person plural pronoun. ![]() ...the title is all yours. ![]() Minus the fact that you're the smartest theologian on this board.
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8:37 AM Jul 13