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I want a digital SLR camera; Is the technology mature yet?
Topic Started: Jul 16 2005, 12:30 PM (361 Views)
kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
I love photogpaphy.
25 years ago I studied it and I wasn't half bad.
I bought a Nikon F3 and a bunch of Nikkor lenses and accessories.

Jose has a digital but I miss the speed features and flexibility of the SLR with interchangable lenses.

I'm thinking of the Nikon D70s.
Does anyone have it or another higher end SLR?

One thing I can't tolerate is a lag.
When I anticipate that facial expression a milisecond away and I press the trigger I expect the camera to respond instantly.
How fast are these SLRs?

If they are not instantaneous I'm gonna wait a few years till they are.
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Mark
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HOLY CARP!!!
I have the D70. I love it.

I also studied photography, bought a Nikon FE and an F2. Lenses galore!

Waited until the first Nikon hit sub $1k and bought in.

It is instantaneous.

You can find a review at http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond70/
___.___
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o 0
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
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tcmod
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Senior Carp
Kenny, I just had a long visit with a retired engineer (you know how they are) that has now fulfilled his dream of being a pro photographer. After extensive research he ended up with Nikon digital cameras. I can't remember the model, but he was very happy with them. he said he has invested close to 40k in his equipment, so this is not just a hobby. I don't think you can go wrong with the high end nikons and an equally good lens. FWIW he also said that going cheap on the lenses is not the place to try to save money.
Dead girls don't say no, but you still have to buy them flowers
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
I just spent a lot of time researching, and I have a friend who has the Nikon D70s.

The technology works.

The Nikon D70s is supposed to be a great camera. Most reviewers seem to like the new Canon (the digital Rebel with the X in the title) a little more, but they all warn that it's SMALL, and that a man's hands often fall on the self-timer button by accident, which can spoil your shot because you can't cancel the delay.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
One more thing. Depending on how old they are, the lenses from your old Nikon will probably work on the D70s, but they aren't quite the same. A 48mm lens for an old Nikon film camera, as one example, will function as a 72mm lens on a digital SLR. So take the numbers on your old lenses and multiply them by 50%. That's good if you want telephoto, not so good if you want wide angle.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Is the sensor square or rectangular?
IOW do you no longer have to rotate the camera to fill and frame (and use all the pixels) for a vertical shot?
If the sensor is rectangular and you electronically rotate the image *after the fact either at the camera or on your computer* you forfeit resolution because you didn't use all the pixels that you could have.

Mark, I hear I can use all my old, vintage 1982, Nikkor lenses, but the light meter does not function.
How much of a problem is this?
With film cameras a 50mm lens has about a 50-degree field of view.
The sensor on the D70 is smaller than the 35mm frame, so old lenses are effectively “more telephoto” when they are on a D70.
How much?
Will my 50mm act like, say a 60 mm, a 70 mm?

Also, my brain is still thinking in ASA, film speed.
Low ASA film needed more light but had less grain.

A digital must use one sensor for all light conditions.
How sensitive is it in low light?
Is it like using 800 ASA or higher film?

How does the sensor's latitude compare with, say, Kodachrome 25?
Are there knees to the light sensitivity curve?
Is it even a curve?

And what happens when light is too low?
Noise? Grain? Low contrast?

When I expose film I think in terms of Fred Picker's / Adam's zone system.
I have to expose for the white horse in the snow in the sun differently than the camera's light meter wants to.
IT wants to expose everything for an average of 18% reflectance - so we have to outsmart it at times?
Or do I need to drop all that film-based thinking because the latitude of the sensor is so much winder than that of film?
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LadyElton
Fulla-Carp
I want a digital SLR camera too. I've seen them at Best Buy for about $1,000. :eek: My dad has a nice camera. He's had it for a long time. It's a Canon and has a few lenses for it. I have an Olympus that I got for my b-day back in 1991. My mom has a 4 mp digital camera which takes some nice pictures.

:wub: :hearteyes:

Posted Image

Some of my pictures. I have more pictures I need to add and have to update my website.
Hilary aka LadyElton
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Quote:
 
Will my 50mm act like, say a 60 mm, a 70 mm?


Answered above.

Quote:
 
Also, my brain is still thinking in ASA, film speed.
Low ASA film needed more light but had less grain.

A digital must use one sensor for all light conditions.
How sensitive is it in low light?
Is it like using 800 ASA or higher film?


Digitals can mimic the film speed. The better digital cameras can function effectively at ISO 1600 or maybe higher. It's part of the specs you need to check for each camera.

In terms of outsmarting the camera, the better digitals will allow you to go automatic or manual, with varieties of control (you can choose shutter speed priority or aperture priority, or can set controls manually). If you're using a 25-year old rig, the camera's array of sensors and capabilities to do things on its own may be more than you're used to, and you may be pleasantly surprised.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Lady E, don't buy at Best Buy. Go to Shopzilla and compare prices. You can always, always do better than Best Buy. If you just want a place you can trust, go to Adorama, they have an excellent reputation. Their prices won't be the lowest, but they'll beat Best Buy by quite a bit.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Very Cool LE!



I just read it has ISO Speeds 200 to 1600.

What the hail could that mean when there is no film?

Are they ranges of signal strength for the electronics?
And do those numbers in any way relate to the ASA speeds we filmies are familiar with?

Oh and what do I do with the F3 body I have always cherished.
Throw it away?

There are several on Ebay from 99 cents to $350.
Why don't we have a sobbing smilie?
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
I think ISO is the newer reference for film speed. It's how I learned about film speed on film cameras. As for how a digital camera mimics film speed ... that's beyond my technical knowledge.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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rkvs1
Junior Carp
I think the real question in searching for "the" camera is:

"Will it do justice to Kenny's melons?"

:sombrero:
:yes: :yes:
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iainhp
Middle Aged Carp
Nikon came out with a D50 recently. Haven't looked at the specs but it is cheaper than a D70. I've played with a D100 and worked well - I have a Nikon N80 which I use a lot, and I had no problem switching to the D100. Kenny, to answer your question - about as much shutter lag as my N80.

I think the only issue with the older lenses is that they will only work in manual mode - depending on the lens, you'll have to focus manually, and set up shutter speed and aperture. Light meter should function.

The ccd array is smaller than a 35 mm film frame, so the rear of the lens is positioned closer to the image sensor in the digital - I believe this has something to do woth why the focal length of the lens changes going to the digital.
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
iainhp
Jul 16 2005, 03:26 PM
Nikon came out with a D50 recently. Haven't looked at the specs but it is cheaper than a D70. I've played with a D100 and worked well - I have a Nikon N80 which I use a lot, and I had no problem switching to the D100. Kenny, to answer your question - about as much shutter lag as my N80.

I think the only issue with the older lenses is that they will only work in manual mode - depending on the lens, you'll have to focus manually, and set up shutter speed and aperture. Light meter should function.

The ccd array is smaller than a 35 mm film frame, so the rear of the lens is positioned closer to the image sensor in the digital - I believe this has something to do woth why the focal length of the lens changes going to the digital.

I suspect the CCD would not be closer to the lens.
If the CCD was not in the same position as the film was the focus would be off at one extreme of the lens's focus range.
I think the CCD is just much smaller in area than the old 35mm frame.
So the CCD "sees" a smaller amount of the circle of light projected by the lens.

I have never had an auto focus lens and always have exposed manually.

I thought the Nikkor lenses were so incompatible with the new bodies that you had to even use an external light meter.
Since you can see the results a second later on the LCD maybe this is not that much of an inconvenience.
I thought the only thing compatible is the Nikon F bayonet mount.


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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Lady Elton: Wonderful photos! Are they all digital? Do you photoshop to bring out the contrast, or do you use a filter, or do you just have an incredible eye? :)

I wish you would have been our wedding photog -- they guys we had was ok, but only got about 5 really great shots out of over 200. :(

The dogma lives loudly within me.
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iainhp
Middle Aged Carp
Well, you've got me curious so I'm going to take a look. My brother in law has an old Nikon (from the eraly 70's) and he was looking at buying a D100 - thought he said his lense could all fit the digital. Try the following link to Nikon FAQ:

Digital Nikon and older lenses

As for the "smaller circle of light" - I stilll think there is more to it. A smaller circle of light = less light, so the lens wouldn't be as fast. I also thought the problem with ccd's were that they were slowish (low light levels are always a problem with camcorders). I'll have to go research that one too.

I can tell you that my colleague that I borrowed the D100 from had a problem which looked like an extremely dirty lens. It turns out you have to clean the ccd array once in a while if you change lenses a lot. You can see the sensor when you remove the lens (which is why I think it is closer to the rear of the lens) and it tends to get dirt on it. Here's a link to an article on cleaning:

Clean the ccd

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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Quote:
 
Nikon came out with a D50 recently. Haven't looked at the specs but it is cheaper than a D70.


The D50 is basically the D70s, minus a couple of features (slightly slower best shutter speed?), and with a couple of additional automatic settings. Sells for $100 less.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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iainhp
Middle Aged Carp
Here's a couple of links:

Good description, if a bit technical, on how digital cameras work.

Explanation on how digital cameras work


Comparison of Nikon digital slrs (interestingly, the D70 looks better than the D100):

Nikon comparison


Explanation on focal length and digital cameras - I sort of understand this after reading, but I think a set of ray traces would clear it up. One question - does the viewfinder take the changeinto account ?

lenses and digital cameras

[Later Edit]
Here's a great explanation with ray traces - it's really a crop factor as Kenny suggested, not a change in focal length as it is usually referred to:

Is your 200mm lens really 300mm?


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