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Westboro Baptist Church Thanks God; for London tube bombings
Topic Started: Jul 11 2005, 01:37 AM (3,067 Views)
jon-nyc
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Cheers
Is this guy for real? It looks like he has a real church in Kansas. Does he have support?


http://www.godhatesfags.com/featured/20050...ubway-bomb.html



hat tip: Andrew Sullivan.

In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
I guess it depends on your definition of "for real". Fred Phelps is a well-known sociopathic nutcase. I won't bore you with a lot of details; just do a simple google search on him. He once protested in front of our church, calling us all a bunch of "fag lovers." It was one of the best things in our kids' young lives to have witnessed this idiot frothing at the mouth, and crossing his picket line to go to church that Sunday.

"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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apple
one of the angels
condemnable -and he's such a nut
it behooves me to behold
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jon-nyc
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Cheers
Fair enough - as the grandson of a baptist minister, I'll not infer that this view has any takeup in the denomination.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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apple
one of the angels
no.. I don't think it is representative.. He travels all over the US protesting gay things. (at least it is not at the taxpayer's expense)
it behooves me to behold
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gryphon
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Middle Aged Carp
Yes, he's real, unfortunately. Here's a couple of photos of him.

Posted Image Posted Image

I don't think Algore sees him anymore, though. Phelps has served on the floor of Democrat National Conventions in the past and was a Gore delegate. He was reported to have been invited to the Clinton inaugurations in 1993 and 1997, but I don't know if he actually attended or not.

He's very anti-gay, and Gore tapped into that when he was running for the Senate. Gore's platform stated that homosexuality was not "an acceptable alternative that society should affirm" and said in his 1984 U.S. Senate race that he would not accept money from gay rights organizations and that he opposed a "gay bill of rights." (Nashville Tennessean newspaper.) Algore seems to have changed his public position since then.
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rkvs1
Junior Carp
jon, I am ALSO the grandson of a Baptist minister. I'm sure his reaction to Fred would have been at least for a while, patiently irritated silence.

I'm not POSITIVE that Westboro Baptist Church is actually officially a current member of the Kansas or American Baptist Convention.

Fred was a licensed lawyer but has been barred from all courtrooms on all levels for almost 2 decades. His "church", which is populated mainly by his relatives, may have suffered a similar fate but just kept the name. MANY years ago, he sent his children out to sell candy door-to-door as a money raiser for his church, which at that time included ONLY his kitchen-table family, but was purposefully vague about WHICH church. He's been an oddball since forever.

He is well deserving of a (2)ply-wood coffin and a Styrofoam headstone.

Bob
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jon-nyc
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gryphon
Jul 11 2005, 10:21 AM
Algore seems to have changed his public position since then.

Yeah, its amazing what you have to do to get elected in some of those red states.
In my defense, I was left unsupervised.
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Steve Miller
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Bull-Carp
Quote:
 
Thank God for the bombing of London's subway today - July 7, 2005 - wherein dozens were killed and hundreds seriously injured. Wish it was many more.

"But thou shalt say unto them, This is a nation that obeyeth not the voice of the Lord their God, nor receiveth correction; truth is perished, and is cut off from their mouth." Jer. 7:28.
England: Island of the Sodomite Damned


It's important to note that Falwell said nearly the same thing after 9/11 - the same Falwell who styles himself as the voice of the Republican party.

To coin a phrase:

"WHERE'S THE OUTRAGE"?
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
None in my corner.

I don't always agree with Falwell, but he is much more sound in his doctrine than Phelps.

What Falwell expressed was what many of us (including me sometimes) thought about 9/11, and the punishment of America (the New Israel, perhaps?) by a just God. A bit too rooted in the Old Testament, perhaps, but certainly not looney bin material....
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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Rick Zimmer
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Fulla-Carp
Steve Miller
Jul 11 2005, 10:00 AM
Quote:
 
Thank God for the bombing of London's subway today - July 7, 2005 - wherein dozens were killed and hundreds seriously injured. Wish it was many more.

"But thou shalt say unto them, This is a nation that obeyeth not the voice of the Lord their God, nor receiveth correction; truth is perished, and is cut off from their mouth." Jer. 7:28.
England: Island of the Sodomite Damned


It's important to note that Falwell said nearly the same thing after 9/11 - the same Falwell who styles himself as the voice of the Republican party.

To coin a phrase:

"WHERE'S THE OUTRAGE"?

Good question, Steve.

What's interesting about such reports is that if this were said by a Muslim cleric it would be used on here to prove that Islam as a whole is a religion of war and terrorism.

But when spoken by a "Christian" cleric, it is dismissed as the ravings of a lunatic.



[size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size]
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JBryan
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I am the grey one
No, support for the notion that Islam is a religion of war and terrorism comes from what they do "not" say.
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne


There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it".


Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody.

Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore.

From The Lion in Winter.
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Quote:
 
I don't always agree with Falwell, but he is much more sound in his doctrine than Phelps.

What Falwell expressed was what many of us (including me sometimes) thought about 9/11, and the punishment of America (the New Israel, perhaps?) by a just God. A bit too rooted in the Old Testament, perhaps, but certainly not looney bin material....


I seem to recall, when I quoted many of the things the Bible speaks of approvingly, in the same book that condemns homosexuality, you said those were all Old Testament quotes, and that (this is pretty close to a direct quote of what you said) you're not an Old Testament sort of guy.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
QuirtEvans
Jul 11 2005, 09:56 AM
Quote:
 
I don't always agree with Falwell, but he is much more sound in his doctrine than Phelps.

What Falwell expressed was what many of us (including me sometimes) thought about 9/11, and the punishment of America (the New Israel, perhaps?) by a just God. A bit too rooted in the Old Testament, perhaps, but certainly not looney bin material....


I seem to recall, when I quoted many of the things the Bible speaks of approvingly, in the same book that condemns homosexuality, you said those were all Old Testament quotes, and that (this is pretty close to a direct quote of what you said) you're not an Old Testament sort of guy.

Nope, I'm a NT guy, but I do lean on the OT, as most Christian folks do. And perhaps I lean more than others.

But as for the gay issue, there is also ammunition in the NT that can be used in that argument...unless, of course, you do not consider the Pauline Letters to be worthy of inclusion....
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
I was merely pointing out the inconsistency. You reject the literal parts of the Old Testament that you don't like, such as where you're allowed to sell your daughter into slavery or kill someone for planting different crops side by side. But you "lean on" the Old Testament anyway, "perhaps more than others".
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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gryphon
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Middle Aged Carp
Steve Miller
Jul 11 2005, 01:00 PM
Thank God for the bombing of London's subway today - July 7, 2005 - wherein dozens were killed and hundreds seriously injured. Wish it was many more.

I can't get to the site because of our firewall, but if what you quote above is accurate, what Falwell said after 9/11 isn't *anything* like that at all.
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rkvs1
Junior Carp
I have to give support to JBryan here.
The call for "outrage" was in response to many KILLINGS.
Fred's stuff is pretty passe in comparison.
Nasty and upsetting, but only in verse.
Outright destruction or murder is on a different level.

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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
QuirtEvans
Jul 11 2005, 10:16 AM
I was merely pointing out the inconsistency. You reject the literal parts of the Old Testament that you don't like, such as where you're allowed to sell your daughter into slavery or kill someone for planting different crops side by side. But you "lean on" the Old Testament anyway, "perhaps more than others".

Humor thyself, as I don't find it particularly inconsistent.

We live in an age of Grace, rather than that of Law. That does not mean, however, that since we live in a different age, that what went before that division of time has no meaning. It is no longer binding law.

If 'twere so useless, why should we include such flotsam and jetsam in our religious roadmap?
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Quote:
 
We live in an age of Grace, rather than that of Law. That does not mean, however, that since we live in a different age, that what went before that division of time has no meaning. It is no longer binding law.


Ah, I see now. Some of the things that were written hundreds of years ago may not have particular relevance in today's day and age, even if, when written, they were written as and were intended to be binding. And you feel free to pick and choose which parts of that binding document you'll follow, and which parts you'll toss out as no longer relevant.

I think I'll put my Bible and my Constitution down side by side, and see how they compare.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
QuirtEvans
Jul 11 2005, 10:33 AM
Quote:
 
We live in an age of Grace, rather than that of Law. That does not mean, however, that since we live in a different age, that what went before that division of time has no meaning. It is no longer binding law.


Ah, I see now. Some of the things that were written hundreds of years ago may not have particular relevance in today's day and age, even if, when written, they were written as and were intended to be binding. And you feel free to pick and choose which parts of that binding document you'll follow, and which parts you'll toss out as no longer relevant.

I think I'll put my Bible and my Constitution down side by side, and see how they compare.

You are grasping at straws.

I haven't written that I thougt the OT was a binding document, in fact, I never recall that statement ever being made by any professing Christian on this board, or in the OCR.

I think we all agree that the NT supercedes the OT. As I have written, however, that just because something has been superceded does not mean that it is utterly lacking in validity.

Now, to address your other point about the Constitution vs the Bible...what point are you trying to make? That the inspired Word of God is the same as the Constitution?
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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David Burton
Senior Carp
Kudos to JBryan.

I'll not defend Fallwell either. At times he has gone way too far out on a limb for anyone to try and save him embarrassment.

But when you go to someone's website and the things you see make you laugh, you know you're dealing with a nutcase.

...but the idiot has the right to drool in public, just so long as we have the right to identify him as an idiot.

Jolly
 
We live in an age of Grace, rather than that of Law. That does not mean, however, that since we live in a different age, that what went before that division of time has no meaning. It is no longer binding law.


Jolly, this probably is taking the discussion into very deep waters. Be careful. There are crocodiles.
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Steve Miller
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Bull-Carp
gryphon
Jul 11 2005, 11:16 AM
Steve Miller
Jul 11 2005, 01:00 PM
Thank God for the bombing of London's subway today - July 7, 2005 - wherein dozens were killed and hundreds seriously injured. Wish it was many more.

I can't get to the site because of our firewall, but if what you quote above is accurate, what Falwell said after 9/11 isn't *anything* like that at all.

You decide how similar it is - sounds like the same BS to me:

Quote:
 
"(September 14, Washington) Fundamentalist Christian minister Jerry Falwell is blaming gays and pro choice advocates for the devastating terrorist attacks on the World Trade Centre and the Pentagon.

Speaking on the 700 Club religious programme Falwell said, "The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way, all of them who have tried to secularize America. I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen'."

He made the comments to 700 Club host Pat Robertson.  The pair have been at the forefront of opposing gay rights in the US. "
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
I don't buy into any of the evangelical line about America being the New Israel or that any of attacks are "God's punishment". But certainly, Steve, you should be able to distinguish between "Wish it was many more." and "I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen'." The attacks on 9-11 were somewhat targeted against the perceived decadence of Western civilization -- which Falwell hyperbolically and stupidly pointed out.

I don't think you would wish that all liberal politics were broad brushed as Queer Nation types -- and I think you are intelligent enough to extend the same courtesy to conservatives and Christians.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Luke's Dad
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Emperor Pengin
ivorythumper
Jul 11 2005, 03:35 PM
I don't buy into any of the evangelical line about America being the New Israel or that any of attacks are "God's punishment". But certainly, Steve, you should be able to distinguish between "Wish it was many more." and "I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen'." The attacks on 9-11 were somewhat targeted against the perceived decadence of Western civilization -- which Falwell hyperbolically and stupidly pointed out.

I don't think you would wish that all liberal politics were broad brushed as Queer Nation types -- and I think you are intelligent enough to extend the same courtesy to conservatives and Christians.

:clap:
The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it.
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Steve Miller
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Bull-Carp
ivorythumper
Jul 11 2005, 12:35 PM
But certainly, Steve, you should be able to distinguish between "Wish it was many more." and "I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen'."

You feel no outrage because you agree with the sentiment and quibble only with the wording? Or perhaps you take exception only to the wish for more?

Wow.
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