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Tenure
Topic Started: Jun 26 2005, 07:48 AM (462 Views)
kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Ivory.

Sometimes your writings are just so "out there" to me that I have a hard time even following it let alone responding.

And your style of writing . . . Oye vey . . . like when you wrote about me "disarming my opponents" . . .
Well Gee Whiz. There is a whole discussion just in that phrase.
It is just overload for me and it is hard to respond.
It is almost like you are drifting into Italian, while I am drifting into French.

I don't enjoy wearing you or myself down.
This is not a competition for rightness.

I just speak from my heart and from own experience.
My expertise is internal not external, from books, others, or God.
It is a very non-pious way to live and to speak.
It seems to confound you.


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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Kenny:

Some of this is banter -- but it does have meaning and purpose. You must know that I am not trying to bust balls, but I am interested in figuring out where you are coming from. Please note that I did use a "conditional" phrase if -- I am not accusing you of anything devious, but I do see irony in what I perceive as inconsistancy. Perhaps that is just my problem. I am sorry if you find it wearisome.

FWIW, you might be more internalized than I am, but my process seeks to find agreements between the internal and the external experiences: I do not see myself as self-defining, and so I am constantly evaluating my own perceptions and feelings and thoughts against history, tradition, other opinions. You might find this too dogmatic -- but once someone arrives at a "truth" (such as 1+1=2) it is very difficult to shift their perceptions and all the implications that follow from that "truth". I think this is a common human experience, and is not at all limited to those who think in objectivist, universal terms or have a transcendental view of the human person. Your own "truths" however you phrase them ("gay is natural", "we are all the same", "we are all different", etc) also are defining characteristics of your own thought processes and would lead you to certain conclusions.

If it is sincere, then it cannot be "non pious". I might be missing the boat entirely, but I don't think that any of this confounds me.

ramblingly yours,

Steve
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
kenny, among other places, I'm sure that Steve developed his debating style in part through the classical "studio" methodology that is used in training architects. If his training was anything like mine (and I'll bet that it was), the studio method would require strudent architects to work (usually slavishly long hours) to research a design problem, to produce deisng solutions, continually revising them, until finally, one had to present his solution in an amassed "jury" setting of his peers, faculty, and often visiting practitioners and theorists (ha! calling Dr. Freud, I first accidentally typed "terrorists"). The jurists' critiques could often be seen as intensely critical, even personally insulting. In fact, they usually weren't at all personal or malicious(save for a few jurists that everyone had, that one just *knows* was acting malevolently). Rather, they taught a student not to get "tunnel vision" caused by their closeness to their own solution. Defending one's design solution against this type of jury was intended to teach the student to really understand their work, and to be able to make a solid, thoughtful, reasoned defense of it against opposing viewpoints.

If you think what he said to you was bad, trust me, you should sit in on one of those "crits" sometime, and see how "the brethren" of the profession treat each other sometimes. :eek:
"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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apple
one of the angels
all you guys are soooooo smart. :hearts:
it behooves me to behold
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
That is an interesting point, Dwain -- I too had a very contentious crit experience. I was actually appalled at the subjectivistic interpretations by the critics and professors -- folks who could not or would not even give a working definition to what "architecture" is, was, or should be -- and yet were incredibly dogmatic in deciding whether or not the student achieved "architecture". This was indeed part of my search for objective grounding of my thinking -- which led me to explore and embrace the perennial philosophy of the Greeks and Scholastics, and to first understand the problems of relativism and fuzzy thinking in so much of the modernist project.

Your appraisal of this resonates quite deeply, and it is something that I have loong been consciously aware of.


ha! "terrorists"!!! -- that is good!
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
So I guess we should be grateful for all those long-ago crits. They achieved (at least the stated) noble goal for both of us: surely in the narrow sense of their architectural focus, but more importantly, as relates to broader and more meaningful aspects of life.




No, I don't care. Howard Lawrence was still a prick.

:D



"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Dwain Lee
Jun 26 2005, 02:31 PM
So I guess we should be grateful for all those long-ago crits. They achieved (at least the stated) noble goal for both of us: surely in the narrow sense of their architectural focus, but more importantly, as relates to broader and more meaningful aspects of life.




No, I don't care. Howard Lawrence was still a prick.

:D

I had my share of profs as well... God rest their evil souls.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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