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Tenure
Topic Started: Jun 26 2005, 07:48 AM (461 Views)
kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Why have tenure?
Why have an employee you can't fire?

This link says because it protects teachers that teach unpopular opinions.
Huh?
Like what?

http://www2.nea.org/he/tenure.html
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Mark
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HOLY CARP!!!
Tenure is one of those things that have always had me scratching my head wondering why.

Why would any profession offer tenure to anybody?

I am not even happy about the lifetime appointment of judges.


___.___
(_]===*
o 0
When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
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apple
one of the angels
fancy union labor... (the NEA of course is for tenure)
it behooves me to behold
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Dewey
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HOLY CARP!!!
Tenure is a bad idea, and at worst, provides a smokescreen of respectability where none should be given.

Tenure almost never protects professors teaching or writing things that are unpopular - assuming, of course, that you're talking about "unpopular with the educational administration and establishment" as opposed to "unpopular with the students and parents, who are paying them and relying on the best education for their money." The truth is that anyone teaching at college level who espouses viewpoints unpopular with the first group are either gotten rid of before tenure is available to them, or they're relegated to "instructor" or similar non-tenure tracks which doom them to marginalization within the academic community.

Maybe it isn't this way in every case, but from what I've seen, tenure's primary function is the protection of the educational/sociopolitical status quo, not protection of any concept of advancement of knowledge (and heaven forbid, wisdom) via open discourse.

"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685.

"Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous

"Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011

I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14
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Florillo
Member
I say dump tenure so we can fire those stupid communist/socialist liberal teachers and get people in there with morals.
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Florillo
Jun 26 2005, 09:14 AM
I say dump tenure so we can fire those stupid communist/socialist liberal teachers and get people in there with morals.

Many things labled as morals are relative.


So, who's morals?
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Rick Zimmer
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Fulla-Carp
kenny
Jun 26 2005, 10:20 AM
Florillo
Jun 26 2005, 09:14 AM
I say dump tenure so we can fire those stupid communist/socialist liberal teachers and get people in there with morals.

Many things labled as morals are relative.


So, who's morals?

A perfect example of one of the reasons for tenure.
[size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size]
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Good point Rick.

But overall my jury is still out on tenure.
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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
kenny
Jun 26 2005, 09:20 AM
Florillo
Jun 26 2005, 09:14 AM
I say dump tenure so we can fire those stupid communist/socialist liberal teachers and get people in there with morals.

Many things labled as morals are relative.


So, who's morals?

If that's the case, then why would you be against tenure? After all, there could never be anything IMMORAL about tenure, could there?
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
IT
Who said I was against tenure?

I am questioning so I can learn.
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Florillo
Member
kenny
Jun 26 2005, 06:20 PM
Florillo
Jun 26 2005, 09:14 AM
I say dump tenure so we can fire those stupid communist/socialist liberal teachers and get people in there with morals.

Many things labled as morals are relative.


So, who's morals?

Christian morals. Any other so called morals are just shams. They are not the will of God.
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ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Florillo
Jun 26 2005, 10:20 AM
kenny
Jun 26 2005, 06:20 PM
Florillo
Jun 26 2005, 09:14 AM
I say dump tenure so we can fire those stupid communist/socialist liberal teachers and get people in there with morals.

Many things labled as morals are relative.


So, who's morals?

Christian morals. Any other so called morals are just shams. They are not the will of God.

Are you a troll or an authentic Christian? Your lack of subtlety is giving you away.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
ivorythumper
Jun 26 2005, 10:26 AM
Florillo
Jun 26 2005, 10:20 AM
kenny
Jun 26 2005, 06:20 PM
Florillo
Jun 26 2005, 09:14 AM
I say dump tenure so we can fire those stupid communist/socialist liberal teachers and get people in there with morals.

Many things labled as morals are relative.


So, who's morals?

Christian morals. Any other so called morals are just shams. They are not the will of God.

Are you a troll or an authentic Christian? Your lack of subtlety is giving you away.

Actually IT I am suspicious of subtlety.

At least this person speaks from the heart, much like I do.

Sometimes learning takes you away from yourself.

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ivorythumper
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
kenny
Jun 26 2005, 10:33 AM
ivorythumper
Jun 26 2005, 10:26 AM
Florillo
Jun 26 2005, 10:20 AM
kenny
Jun 26 2005, 06:20 PM
Florillo
Jun 26 2005, 09:14 AM
I say dump tenure so we can fire those stupid communist/socialist liberal teachers and get people in there with morals.

Many things labled as morals are relative.


So, who's morals?

Christian morals. Any other so called morals are just shams. They are not the will of God.

Are you a troll or an authentic Christian? Your lack of subtlety is giving you away.

Actually IT I am suspicious of subtelty.

At least this person speaks from the heart, much like I do.

Sometimes learning takes you away from yourself.

I don't think that they are "speaking from the heart". Florillo either is an extreme fundamentalist (but his or her other comments using langauge such as "bete noir" argues against that), or s/he is a liberal trying to undermine the discussion by saying things that are outlandish in the persona of a Christian. If it is the latter, which is my supposition -- that makes s/he a troll.

Kind of ironic that you are arguing for black and white and not shades of gray. :)
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
ivorythumper
Jun 26 2005, 10:39 AM

Kind of ironic that you are arguing for black and white and not shades of gray.

Ironic?
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Florillo
Member
All tenure does is facilitate the entrenched liberal faculty of our institutions of so called higher learning that turn out supposedly educated liberals. Tenure should be abolished to get rid of the stranglehold liberals have on education. Now if stating my opinion plainly makes me a troll then thats too bad.
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ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
kenny
Jun 26 2005, 10:45 AM
ivorythumper
Jun 26 2005, 10:39 AM

Kind of ironic that you are arguing for black and white and not shades of gray.

Ironic?

I think that's the right word. Maybe you need a new dictionary. :)

Ironic in that you argue constantly for relativity, yet here you are against the subtleties of thinking that might lead to nuanced to more moderate positions.

But on second thought, perhaps it is not ironic if you are really very dogmatic about things, and you only use your language of relativity to disarm your opponents, or through sloppy feelings that you mistake for rational argument, or have been taught that the language of "tolerance" is an effective political rhetoric for promoting the homosexual agenda...

I don't know, Kenny. What do you really think/feel about it? :)
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
Florillo
Jun 26 2005, 10:55 AM
All tenure does is facilitate the entrenched liberal faculty of our institutions of so called higher learning that turn out supposedly educated liberals. Tenure should be abolished to get rid of the stranglehold liberals have on education. Now if stating my opinion plainly makes me a troll then thats too bad.

That was not your earlier argument -- you invoked "the will of God". I could agree with you on these terms, but your other statement seems to be either knee-jerk or baiting.
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Florillo
Jun 26 2005, 10:55 AM
All tenure does is facilitate the entrenched liberal faculty of our institutions of so called higher learning that turn out supposedly educated liberals. Tenure should be abolished to get rid of the stranglehold liberals have on education. Now if stating my opinion plainly makes me a troll then thats too bad.

There are no schools with tenure with conservatives in charge?

What is the purpose of a school?
To be neutral?
To turn out students who can think for themselves and become themselves, be that lefties, righties or middlees?

Or is it to guide those young minds so they grow up to become like the educators?
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
ivorythumper
Jun 26 2005, 11:01 AM
kenny
Jun 26 2005, 10:45 AM
ivorythumper
Jun 26 2005, 10:39 AM

Kind of ironic that you are arguing for black and white and not shades of gray.

Ironic?

I think that's the right word. Maybe you need a new dictionary. :)

Ironic in that you argue constantly for relativity, yet here you are against the subtleties of thinking that might lead to nuanced to more moderate positions.

But on second thought, perhaps it is not ironic if you are really very dogmatic about things, and you only use your language of relativity to disarm your opponents, or through sloppy feelings that you mistake for rational argument, or have been taught that the language of "tolerance" is an effective political rhetoric for promoting the homosexual agenda...

I don't know, Kenny. What do you really think/feel about it? :)

What?

Use fewer words please.

I can't understand you.
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ivorythumper
Member Avatar
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
So when you argue with Jose do you put your hands over your ears and shout "I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!!" :biggrin:
The dogma lives loudly within me.
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apple
one of the angels
kenny
Jun 26 2005, 01:45 PM
ivorythumper
Jun 26 2005, 10:39 AM

Kind of ironic that you are arguing for black and white and not shades of gray.

Ironic?

how about steeley
it behooves me to behold
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Florillo
Member
So are you argueing then that Christian morals are not the will of God? Kenny asked who's morals should be the base for getting rid of liberal faculty. Liberal professors that follow some false godless morality should be replaced with professors that follow true Christian morals. The most eficient way of doing that is to abolish tenure because as long as tenure remains in practice educational institutions will remain bastions of godless liberalism.
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apple
one of the angels
you need to move to Kansas Flo
it behooves me to behold
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Florillo
Jun 26 2005, 11:24 AM
So are you argueing then that Christian morals are not the will of God? Kenny asked who's morals should be the base for getting rid of liberal faculty. Liberal professors that follow some false godless morality should be replaced with professors that follow true Christian morals. The most eficient way of doing that is to abolish tenure because as long as tenure remains in practice educational institutions will remain bastions of godless liberalism.

Aren't there Christian Colleges?

There is Loyola Marymont University in Los Angeles.
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