| Welcome to The New Coffee Room. We hope you enjoy your visit. You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features: |
- Pages:
- 1
- 2
| China is really moving up; Wow | |
|---|---|
| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 23 2005, 08:09 AM (749 Views) | |
| kenny | Jun 23 2005, 08:09 AM Post #1 |
|
HOLY CARP!!!
|
They want to take over Unocal, Matag, IBM PC business. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/22/business...agewanted=print |
![]() |
|
| ivorythumper | Jun 23 2005, 08:26 AM Post #2 |
|
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
|
I don't know how the US gov can let this happen. It would be very bad to give China any control over needed resources. |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
![]() |
|
| JBryan | Jun 23 2005, 08:27 AM Post #3 |
![]()
I am the grey one
|
They already control both ends of the Panama Canal. |
|
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
![]() |
|
| kenny | Jun 23 2005, 08:28 AM Post #4 |
|
HOLY CARP!!!
|
IT said: "I don't know how the US gov can let this happen. It would be very bad to give China any control over needed resources. " Why not? They need them too. Not fair America should more than its share. |
![]() |
|
| ivorythumper | Jun 23 2005, 08:31 AM Post #5 |
|
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
|
Hutchison Whampoa Limited leases it, but I think we still effectively "control" it. |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
![]() |
|
| ivorythumper | Jun 23 2005, 08:33 AM Post #6 |
|
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
|
Kenny: Quit changing your messages!!! They are not people like you and me. You do not want to live in the Canton of California. Believe me. |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
![]() |
|
| Phlebas | Jun 23 2005, 08:49 AM Post #7 |
|
Bull-Carp
|
The Maytag and IBM deals are a big snooze. A couple of struggling brands that no company in the US wants to buy. The Unocal deal is a little more interesting. It's probably result in a bidding war between CNOOC and Chevron, and whoever wins will pay too much for the company. |
|
Random FML: Today, I was fired by my boss in front of my coworkers. It would have been nice if I could have left the building before they started celebrating. FML The founding of the bulk of the world's nation states post 1914 is based on self-defined nationalisms. The bulk of those national movements involve territory that was ethnically mixed. The foundation of many of those nation states involved population movements in the aftermath. When the only one that is repeatedly held up as unjust and unjustifiable is the Zionist project, the term anti-semitism may very well be appropriate. - P*D | |
![]() |
|
| KlavierBauer | Jun 23 2005, 09:04 AM Post #8 |
![]()
HOLY CARP!!!
|
Speaking of China... has anyone been following Microsoft, Google, and Yahoo's moves to inhibit freedom, yet make a few bucks? |
|
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper "He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple | |
![]() |
|
| AlbertaCrude | Jun 23 2005, 09:18 AM Post #9 |
|
Bull-Carp
|
Hey wait a minute, I thought the notion of the free flow of investment capital was part an parcel of globalization. That's been US policy since the Reagan era. China openned up to foreign investment and so did Russia. Capitalism rocks! It should be encouraged everywhere. |
![]() |
|
| JBryan | Jun 23 2005, 09:53 AM Post #10 |
![]()
I am the grey one
|
We are open to them as long as they are unable to challenge us economically. Fair is fair. |
|
"Any man who would make an X rated movie should be forced to take his daughter to see it". - John Wayne There is a line we cross when we go from "I will believe it when I see it" to "I will see it when I believe it". Henry II: I marvel at you after all these years. Still like a democratic drawbridge: going down for everybody. Eleanor: At my age there's not much traffic anymore. From The Lion in Winter. | |
![]() |
|
| Rick Zimmer | Jun 23 2005, 10:07 AM Post #11 |
|
Fulla-Carp
|
A question for you, jbryan, since you are our resident expert on China. In the late 80's/early 90's, the fear was that Japan would overpower the US in economic terms. Their economy was growing gangbusters like China's is now. They were buying American assets, etc. and the same things now being said about China wer ebeing said about Japan. Then, a recession hit Japan because of the way they had financed their growth and they have never quite recovered; but the recovery has really slowed because of ingrained cultural values and mores. As I understand it, one of the major problems in Japan's economic growth is the way the society is structured dealing with respect for and reverence of the elders. For an economy to grow and be vibrant, new ideas and new theories must come into play; which are usually brought in by the younger generation. But in Japan, authority is not given to the up and coming generation. Rather the older generation, with its more conservative world view and traditional sense of how business should function, maintains control quite simply because they are older. This, then, has been a major part of what has stymied Japan's economic growth. So, my question to you is whether this may also occur in China, where reverence for age is also a major cultural value. Also, do you see other cultural aspects of China which will in essense become roadblocks for China's continued expansion as the economic forces begin to effect more and more of China's population. |
| [size=4]Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul -- Benedict XVI[/size] | |
![]() |
|
| kenny | Jun 23 2005, 10:48 AM Post #12 |
|
HOLY CARP!!!
|
Huh? What are you talking about? You must be joking now. |
![]() |
|
| ivorythumper | Jun 23 2005, 11:21 AM Post #13 |
|
I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
|
Only partly. The law of nations is rather Darwinian. The US has achieved a fairly good balance between rights and responsibilties that are predicated on notions of liberty, equality, human dignity, civil rights, etc. Until I see China opening up much more one the forefront of human rights -- let alone civil rights, I would not trust them. Believe me, gay marriage is not a chapter in Mao's Little Red Book. A bullet in the back of the head is. You don't want to give them ANY advantage over the US. |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
![]() |
|
| AlbertaCrude | Jun 23 2005, 11:38 AM Post #14 |
|
Bull-Carp
|
Oh I see...the highly flexible DNC version of free trade and economic globalization.
|
![]() |
|
| dolmansaxlil | Jun 23 2005, 02:05 PM Post #15 |
![]()
HOLY CARP!!!
|
Your second post, to me, says something totally different from your first. I agree with your second - and though there have been many advances made in China since the end of Mao's reign, they still have a horrific human rights record. I honestly don't know that much about international trade, so I can't comment on this specific deal. |
|
"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst." ~ Henri Cartier-Bresson My Flickr Photostream | |
![]() |
|
| AlbertaCrude | Jun 23 2005, 02:11 PM Post #16 |
|
Bull-Carp
|
Dol: China is still a totalitarian state- the only difference is that now the Politburo and senior Party officials all wear quality Hong Kong tailor made business suits along with imported Gucci and Florsheim shoes. |
![]() |
|
| dolmansaxlil | Jun 23 2005, 02:16 PM Post #17 |
![]()
HOLY CARP!!!
|
Ummm...I don't think I ever claimed they were anything else. All I said was that there had been advances in China since the end of Mao's reign, which is true. Mao banned GRASS, for crying out loud, because he banned anything but vegetable gardens, which eventually turned (like most things did under Mao) to the absolute of having no living plant in public areas unless it was vegetables. Things HAVE changed in some regards. I'm not saying it's in great shape - quite the contrary. But positive changes have been made - mostly because China's long term goal has always been to be a big player in the world market, and in today's media-run world, they can't hide things as easily as they used to. So they've made some improvements to save face. |
|
"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst." ~ Henri Cartier-Bresson My Flickr Photostream | |
![]() |
|
| Jeffrey | Jun 23 2005, 02:46 PM Post #18 |
|
Senior Carp
|
If China has the money it can and should buy whatever assets the market offers, if they feel they can make better use of it at the free market price. That's what capitalism is. The more capitalism, the more freedom. it is up to us to innovate and improve and compete, or rightly and justly lose our standard of living. Let's take some responsibility for our own actions (or inactions), rather than blame the Chinese for anything. |
![]() |
|
| AlbertaCrude | Jun 23 2005, 03:13 PM Post #19 |
|
Bull-Carp
|
Jeffrey I quite agree with you on this . |
![]() |
|
| KlavierBauer | Jun 23 2005, 03:34 PM Post #20 |
![]()
HOLY CARP!!!
|
Jeffrey, I think I agree with your thinking here in general. I of course know very little about the specifics here, but in principle I agree with what you're saying. Companies like Yahoo, Google, and Microsoft should also be concerned about freedom, and shouldn't do business with a country hiring them to limit the freedom of it's inhabitants. These companies help empower a country with little regard for freedom, because they realize it is also their largest possible market. |
|
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper "He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple | |
![]() |
|
| apple | Jun 23 2005, 03:36 PM Post #21 |
|
one of the angels
|
Better late than never..
|
| it behooves me to behold | |
![]() |
|
| Jeffrey | Jun 23 2005, 03:48 PM Post #22 |
|
Senior Carp
|
There are some legitimate issues with Chinese failure to respect copyright laws, and restricting Yahoo access and so forth. But they are a soverign nation. Each company will have to decide how to deal with these issues. Over time as China's economy and legal system develop, they will have to change these things, just as Western nations have done over the centuries. My only main point is that people rarely improve and succeed by blaming others. "China bashing" is one more example of that. If we are losing jobs or control to China, we need to work harder and innovate, not blame China for buying companies and rescources on the open market. |
![]() |
|
| KlavierBauer | Jun 23 2005, 03:55 PM Post #23 |
![]()
HOLY CARP!!!
|
China isn't restricting Yahoo... Yahoo is restricting China. Yahoo can easily say "no, we believe in the freedom of ideas, and will not block words like "democracy" and "freedom" from searches coming out of your country". I understand that integrity often takes a back seat to free market, but it doesn't have to. |
|
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper "He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple | |
![]() |
|
| KlavierBauer | Jun 23 2005, 03:56 PM Post #24 |
![]()
HOLY CARP!!!
|
I agree wholeheartedly with this statement... even if I can't spell wholeheartedly. |
|
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper "He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple | |
![]() |
|
| dolmansaxlil | Jun 23 2005, 04:04 PM Post #25 |
![]()
HOLY CARP!!!
|
This thread brought to mind an article I read a few months back. Apparently, there is a HUGE bookstore near "Democracy" Square. Just over 50% of Chinese bookstores are not state run. The one in "Democracy" Square is. But the books on the shelves are not what you'd expect. Bill Clinton's book was a huge seller. Books on starting a business have a huge section of the store. Books about America, democracy and western pop culture are all stocked and sell very well. Now, I would imagine that some of these books that are imported from the US are edited and cut during translation. But it's a step. |
|
"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst." ~ Henri Cartier-Bresson My Flickr Photostream | |
![]() |
|
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · The New Coffee Room · Next Topic » |
- Pages:
- 1
- 2










5:00 PM Jul 10