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| Terry Shiavo's grave | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 21 2005, 08:29 AM (1,325 Views) | |
| Jolly | Jun 21 2005, 01:54 PM Post #26 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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When is the true measure of a man taken? In one respect, it is when he gives, when he doesn't have to....did Ms. Schiavo hate her parents so much that she wished her death to be nothing more than a momentary gloat? Fine, if the gentleman truly believed that her wishes were to die, so be it. However, his actions after her death damn him more than his actions before. I think this one is going to be rather hard to defend.... |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| justme | Jun 21 2005, 01:59 PM Post #27 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I think the parents are at fault as well. Bringing in the media, etc... but for goodness sake this is the woman's tombstone. It's how she's going to be remembered forever. Both sides are at fault. I still call for compassion and empathy and rising above any pettiness displayed by either side. He has had the last word. Unfortunately, IMHO, it was not very gentlemanly. |
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"Men sway more towards hussies." G-D3 | |
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| Axtremus | Jun 21 2005, 02:01 PM Post #28 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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In reply to Jolly: M. Schiavo gave to her late wife when he did not have to. It's is important for T. Schiavo and M. Schiavo that M. Schiavo keeps his promise to honor T. Schiavo's wish. Hence it is thus noted on her grave stone. M. Shiavo's action after T. Schiavo's death is entirely appropriate. It is not hard to defend as it is so entirely right that no defense is needed. |
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| Jolly | Jun 21 2005, 02:02 PM Post #29 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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I beg to differ. Families last much longer than individuals. The Schiavo family will most certainly outlive this man...the tombstone is gone, it's simply a matter of time. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| The 89th Key | Jun 21 2005, 02:03 PM Post #30 |
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Ax, I can't get into this right now...but I have faith Jolly and justme will fair just fine, actually better than I could "debating" this with you. You know how I feel about the situation... PS. IT, good unintentional pun when you said "bastards".
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| Axtremus | Jun 21 2005, 02:03 PM Post #31 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Ahh... the Hitler card. Nice going. Go read Jolly's comments on Jeb Bush in the "Jeb won't let go" topic and make your comment there. |
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| Jolly | Jun 21 2005, 02:04 PM Post #32 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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I'm a bit incredulous....you find his actions after his wife's death, done in honor of her? I would never treat my wife's family that way, no matter how terrible the disagreement. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| kenny | Jun 21 2005, 02:06 PM Post #33 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Ax nailed it. This has nothing to do with anything other than her wishes. The husband was carrying out the wife's wishes. The parents didn't respect her wishes. That makes them pious arrogant self-righteous and selfish jerks. Ditto: Congress and Bush. |
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| ivorythumper | Jun 21 2005, 02:10 PM Post #34 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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It's actually the Pol Pot card. You want to lionize a man for standing up to his principles. But what principles? Killing a helpless wife after he already has had established what is virtually a common law marriage including children with another woman? Schiavo is no hero and does not deserve a place in anyone's pantheon. |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| Dewey | Jun 21 2005, 02:10 PM Post #35 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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On the contrary, I don't have any problem with this. I'm perfectly comfortable in my assessment of Michael Schiavo and the situation. Based on your comments, it sounds like Michael Schiavo doesn't have any problems at all, that the only problems are everyone else's. And THAT'S his problem. |
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"By nature, i prefer brevity." - John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, p. 685. "Never waste your time trying to explain yourself to people who are committed to misunderstanding you." - Anonymous "Oh sure, every once in a while a turd floated by, but other than that it was just fine." - Joe A., 2011 I'll answer your other comments later, but my primary priority for the rest of the evening is to get drunk." - Klaus, 12/31/14 | |
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| Axtremus | Jun 21 2005, 02:11 PM Post #36 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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In reply to Jolly: Not incredulous at all. The man has fought the Governor, the Congressm and the President for his late wife. Why should it be incredulous that he carve that line into the tomb stone to honor his late wife? As for how you would treat your wife's family no matter the disagreement, what happened to your view on jungle justice? As reiterated many times before -- T. Schiavo's parents brought this to themselves. They could have let go. They chose not to. It's their problem, not M. Schiavo's. |
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| justme | Jun 21 2005, 02:11 PM Post #37 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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BINGO! |
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"Men sway more towards hussies." G-D3 | |
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| Axtremus | Jun 21 2005, 02:13 PM Post #38 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Like I said, go make that comment after Jolly's comment on Jeb Bush in the "Jeb won't let go" topic. Have fun there. |
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| Axtremus | Jun 21 2005, 02:18 PM Post #39 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Yes, M. Schiavo did not have a problem. Every one else does. The parents chose not to let go and made it their problem. Governor Jeb chose to make it his problem when it really wasn't. The US Congress chose to make it their problem when it really wasn't. The President chose to make it his problem when it really wasn't. Now a man inscribes a statement that describes a very important aspect of his relationship with his late wife, and YOU see fit to pass judgement and make it your problem. Yes, you are the one who has a problem, not M. Schiavo. |
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| justme | Jun 21 2005, 02:20 PM Post #40 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Tell me why he has to be so IN YOUR FACE about it? Why couldn't he have mentioned "loving daughter"? |
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"Men sway more towards hussies." G-D3 | |
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| Axtremus | Jun 21 2005, 02:26 PM Post #41 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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In reply to justme: It's not "IN YOUR FACE." It's a simple statement the reflects a defining feature of their relationship. Fully justified and completely right. Give me a good reason why should he mention "loving daughter" at all. I cannot think of one. |
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| ivorythumper | Jun 21 2005, 02:28 PM Post #42 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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I don't understand your point. It is a matter of what principles are being upheld. Jeb is ostensibly upholding the rule of law that people ought not be murdered (even with state sanctions) through starvation and dehydration, simply because they are incapable of defending themselves against a person for whom it is profitable and convenient that they die. Schiavo fought for her death -- and both profited and no doubt found it very convenient given that he already had abandoned the marriage and taken up with another woman with whom he is having children. If all it takes for you to respect a man is that he has "principles" or "firmness of conviction" you are certainly a sheep to be lead anywhere a stronger man wants to take you. |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| justme | Jun 21 2005, 02:32 PM Post #43 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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okay instead of "loving daughter", how about "beloved daughter"? I think that would be very appropriate and would lead to some healing on both sides. A simple gesture. |
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"Men sway more towards hussies." G-D3 | |
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| Axtremus | Jun 21 2005, 02:33 PM Post #44 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Hey, that's exactly Jolly's argument in the "Jeb won't let go" thread, and I said it's stupid there. As for Jeb upholding the law, etc. You should also go read Jolly's "jungle justice" comment in that thread too! Enjoy! |
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| ivorythumper | Jun 21 2005, 02:35 PM Post #45 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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It's not my concern about what Jolly said or thinks, or how you interpret his remarks. You are evading the obvious... BTW: Why do you think it is stupid as it pertains to Jeb, but not to your lionizing Schiavo? Or are you trying to make an obscure point? |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| apple | Jun 21 2005, 02:52 PM Post #46 |
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one of the angels
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well.. (and I agree with Michael btw..) he put himself and what he did on her gravestone. Maybe that's ok. ..but I haven't really seen it done. |
| it behooves me to behold | |
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| Axtremus | Jun 21 2005, 03:17 PM Post #47 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Gesture or no gesture, the healing will start when the parents let go. |
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| ivorythumper | Jun 21 2005, 03:20 PM Post #48 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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Ax: How quickly would you "let go" if the man who was in charge of your daughter's life, and directly responsible for her death, was also fathering children with another woman? |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| The 89th Key | Jun 21 2005, 03:21 PM Post #49 |
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What if it were your daughter in this situation Ax? Would you be able to let go? Would you not see the tombstone as arrogant and disrespectful? All honest questions... Edit: Ivory apparently has a faster internet connection.
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| Axtremus | Jun 21 2005, 03:23 PM Post #50 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Not if you want to be consistent. I think it is stupid to respect some one if the SOLE REASON is that person's persistence. Applies to M. Schiavo, Jeb, Hitler, Stalin, and every one else. I respect M. Schiavo for not only standing firm, but for having stood firm for the right thing. |
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