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| Terry Shiavo's brain was half the normal weight; Autopsy found no evidence of abuse | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 15 2005, 08:10 AM (4,309 Views) | |
| The 89th Key | Jun 17 2005, 04:53 PM Post #126 |
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I think Quirt hates me anyway, but oh well: QE's correct, Larry, you threw the first "real" punch. |
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| QuirtEvans | Jun 17 2005, 04:56 PM Post #127 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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Thank you for that, 89th. |
| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| Larry | Jun 17 2005, 05:03 PM Post #128 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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Let's see..... I said: "(and I know..... some of you think I have the brains of a horse too, so I'll say it for you and save you the time..... ;-) )" That is what's called "self deprecating humor", by the way..... Quirt replied with: "Please don't feed me straight lines. This one's too easy." Now, maybe you don't see that as the first blow, but I do. |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| The 89th Key | Jun 17 2005, 05:10 PM Post #129 |
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A) I know that was self-deprecating, and funny too! B) I just didn't think his was a first blow. I'll put it this way, when I first read QE's "punch" I didn't think twice, I thought it was a semi-funny remark. When I read your "punch" I was like, "Wow, Larry really doesn't like Quirt to say something like that!" |
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| Larry | Jun 17 2005, 05:14 PM Post #130 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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Then, if Quirt didn't intend it the way I took it, I apologize for the response I made. |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| Phlebas | Jun 17 2005, 05:14 PM Post #131 |
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Bull-Carp
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Raise your hands, anyone who was surprised at that statement. |
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Random FML: Today, I was fired by my boss in front of my coworkers. It would have been nice if I could have left the building before they started celebrating. FML The founding of the bulk of the world's nation states post 1914 is based on self-defined nationalisms. The bulk of those national movements involve territory that was ethnically mixed. The foundation of many of those nation states involved population movements in the aftermath. When the only one that is repeatedly held up as unjust and unjustifiable is the Zionist project, the term anti-semitism may very well be appropriate. - P*D | |
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| The 89th Key | Jun 17 2005, 08:31 PM Post #132 |
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I was making a point. Perhaps I need to visualize such abstract concepts with shapes and colors for you?
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| ycul | Jun 18 2005, 12:28 AM Post #133 |
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Junior Carp
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Okay folks, this will be my last post on this matter. :rolleyes: I was torn between letting it go, and correcting the inaccuracies of the absolute tosh written above. As you can tell, by remarkable coincidence Larry happened to see not one but *five* oncologists yesterday at the exact same time this disagreement was taking place and was able to step in and help out his old mate Jolly. Phew! Here is a point by point reply to the above as to why his post isn't worth a gnat's chuff: 1. It is not "rare" for anyone to be hospitalised for chemotherapy. If my word - and the word of the oncologist I've spoken to isn't good enough then check for yourselves as KB as done. My previous example of the treatment for testicular cancer (a common cancer) is a good example of this. 2.That maybe in America, in which case it's totally irrelevant as we were originally arguing over Wacky's treatment . Over here, with our third world system, we have numerous wards in many hospitals dedicated to this treatment. I should know. 3. Again, this sounds applicable to your system - it certainly isn't to ours. Even with your level of sophistication I'd of thought the mere fact that someone has a cocktail of powerful drugs - one of which is cisplatin - intravenously administered, they are going to be better off on a hospital ward than at home. 4. 2 months straight? The sort of regimes I've been talking about are 6/7 day stays repeated over a certain amount of weeks depending on how far the cancer has spread. Look it up folks. However, in Wacky's case, he *was* hospitalised for over a month during treatment as he picked up a chest infection during therapy. It's also not uncommon for people to be admitted as inpatients during treatment for neutropenia or anaemia. I'll make this my last post, as to be honest, I've lost a lot of respect for these forums. I expected to be in a position where by I'd look up to people with more knowledge than me and learn something new. As it is, I'm terrified when I read stuff I know to be horribly inaccurate trotted out as if it's the final word on the matter. Still, it was worth it to see 89th take yet another beating I guess. ![]() Btw, 89th. You *are* the weakest link. Goodbye.
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| How now, brown cow. | |
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| Larry | Jun 18 2005, 05:26 AM Post #134 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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Lucy, I didn't just "happen" to be in front of my oncologists. There are plenty of people here who will tell you that I have been under the care of oncologists for the last two years - I didn't just "make up" having cancer so I could get into an argument with you. Also, there are several members of the forum who can verify that I told them last week about my recent round of scans and tests, and knew long before you decided to get into a pissing contest with anyone who dared disagree with you that I had an appointment coming up to go discuss the results of my tests with my doctors. So yes, that very morning had spent a couple of hours at the cancer center, getting poked and prodded and talked to and fussed at by my doctors. There are 5 of them, and all 5 of them have become friends of mine during the 2 years they've been taking care of me. They were all there, they all saw me, and I decided I would ask them about this to satisfy my own curiosity. I didn't just "happen" to go to my doctors because you were in an argument with Jolly. Now you finally acknowledge that in Wacky's case he had other problems that required being hospitalized. As for your swan song, if you have "lost respect" for the forum just because someone disagreed with you, then it speaks more about you than it does the forum, or the people in it. |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| Phlebas | Jun 18 2005, 06:13 AM Post #135 |
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Bull-Carp
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What you do with your crayons is your business. |
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Random FML: Today, I was fired by my boss in front of my coworkers. It would have been nice if I could have left the building before they started celebrating. FML The founding of the bulk of the world's nation states post 1914 is based on self-defined nationalisms. The bulk of those national movements involve territory that was ethnically mixed. The foundation of many of those nation states involved population movements in the aftermath. When the only one that is repeatedly held up as unjust and unjustifiable is the Zionist project, the term anti-semitism may very well be appropriate. - P*D | |
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| Jolly | Jun 18 2005, 06:59 AM Post #136 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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Not too far from where I was yesterday, sits an HCA facility. It rates as one of their best, especially in the mid-size range (about a 500 bedder). They have a CTC that sees in excess of 100 patients/day M-F. The size of their Oncology Ward? It's so small that it is tied in with Infernal Medicine (inside joke). The "ward" consists of maybe, and I'm talking maybe, 20 beds. I mentioned M.D. Anderson a couple of times earlier. I invite anyone to cruise their website, or call them up on the phone. Yes, they do provide in-patient care, but the vast majority of their care is on an OP basis. Over here, that's how it's done. It may be different in Merry Ol England. I spoke to another one of my guys yesterday about working in the country, since I knew she was stationed there a few years ago, while her husband was doing TDY. She told me that she interviewed with a hospital in the locality, but she could make more money working at the base bowling alley. On her tour of the hospital, she said she saw stuff that she hadn't seen since her days in school, 20 years ago. This also dovetails with some of the conversation I've had in years previous with the English nurses at Tulane. Some years ago, Tulane hired quite a few Brits, since the RNs were tickled to work for wages that the RNs in New Orleans were walking away from. At the time, they had to be brought up to speed on some of the technology we take for granted, such as IV infusion pumps, because they just didn't do things that way. Now, the above is not a knock against Bristish doctors, or nurses. My experience with both, has been very positive, and they tend to know their stuff. It does serve to illutstrate that they do a few things differently, and do not take high technology as a given. That is why I don't question Lucy's word that her friend was hospitalized for therapy. However, let me reiterate, that it is an uncommon procedure in this part of the world. Y'all can argue with the facts all you wish - it still will not make you right. |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| Jeffrey | Jun 18 2005, 07:20 AM Post #137 |
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Senior Carp
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I don't know much about oncology treatment, but I know something about the debaters above. The Shiavo case seems to bring out sheer mendacity and crazed delusion in the people who want to impose their theocratic view of life on the rest of the population. My guess is that since their side loses on the medical facts surrounding Ms. Schiavo (see the start of the thread), and the public resoundingly rejected their totalitarian-religious mindset, they are stretching for anything to say to back their side. For example, in the original threads Larry claimed that the Schindler's were decended from Oscar Schindler, of Schindler's List fame for saving Jews. I challenged Larry directly on this on 4 separate occasions, with no reply or retraction from him. This goes directly to the heart of the honesty and reliability and intellectual integrity of the posters above. It makes no sense to debate with people who just make things up when it suits them, as Larry does repeatedly. |
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| KlavierBauer | Jun 18 2005, 08:00 AM Post #138 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Nobody seems to take anything I say seriously... but that's OK, because nothing I have to say warrants such seriousness. Nobody has argued that inpatient is the standard, but to imply that in all cancers, and all treatments thereof, inpatient chemo is unheard of, or "backwoods" is simply false. I don't say that with any anger or frustration. It's just a simple fact. I don't care what oncologists and doctors have to say. If you've been sick for any length of time, you know that your doctor's knowledge checks against your own ... in all cases. It isn't preacher's word. If you're really concerned about chemo regimes and what's out there, do some simple research on your own. Google "inpatient chemo" and count the number of times you see "inpatient chemo" in bold. It certainly is talked about a lot for something that never occurs. ~18000 times... |
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"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper "He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple | |
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| Phlebas | Jun 18 2005, 08:31 AM Post #139 |
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Bull-Carp
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KB, I took your post seriously (was a little busy needling 89th, and is my wont, so I did not respond to the content). Your post made a lot of sense, and was based on experience. |
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Random FML: Today, I was fired by my boss in front of my coworkers. It would have been nice if I could have left the building before they started celebrating. FML The founding of the bulk of the world's nation states post 1914 is based on self-defined nationalisms. The bulk of those national movements involve territory that was ethnically mixed. The foundation of many of those nation states involved population movements in the aftermath. When the only one that is repeatedly held up as unjust and unjustifiable is the Zionist project, the term anti-semitism may very well be appropriate. - P*D | |
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| QuirtEvans | Jun 18 2005, 08:41 AM Post #140 |
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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Here's a quote from Florida State Senator Michael S. Bennett, a Republican:
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| It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010. | |
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| Larry | Jun 18 2005, 09:11 AM Post #141 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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Jeffrey, that is simply not true. Now I think you're smarter than that, but I might be wrong. I simply made the comment that her last name was Schindler, and mentioned that this was ironic, given the situation. Nowhere did I ever say she was related to him. The reason you "challenged" me 4 times and didn't get a reply is because I didn't believe anyone could make such a stupid accusation and be serious. So don't turn *your* inability to follow a conversation into some sort of "proof" of some flaw of mine. This is an example of *you* lacking intellectual integrity, not me. Now, as for making things up - I suppose you are joining in with Lucy to call me a liar. You too, can kiss my ass. I'll give and take all day long, and get as heated as you want to get, and then buy you a beer and make your house payment for you - but when you call me a liar you'd better be glad you're doing it from a distance. I'm a lot of things, some good and some not, but liar isn't one of them. Also, how dare *you* question *anyone's* intellectual integrity. As far as I know, I haven't made a single comment regarding the Schiavo discussion in this thread. I have simply commented on what my doctors told me regarding cancer treatment. In return, I've had two people call me a liar, one of them being you. I don't take that off anyone, Jeffrey, you Lucy, man, woman, child, no one. So get your facts straight, your ego and attitude out of the way, or shut the hell up. |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| The 89th Key | Jun 18 2005, 09:26 AM Post #142 |
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You know I could actually HEAR the english accent that time!
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| The 89th Key | Jun 18 2005, 09:29 AM Post #143 |
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...and what you do with your dictionary is yours. Obviously you're currently using it to level some desk or something... :rolleyes: Copy and paste this, it might help you since it seems you are unable to type this phrase: I, [size=7]Phlebas[/size], was 100% wrong. 89th, you were right...and although I'm just trying to get a rise out of you, all I'm doing is solidifying my idiocy. Feel better? I accept your apology Phlebe. ![]() This is more fun than you would think!
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| ivorythumper | Jun 18 2005, 12:28 PM Post #144 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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Kenny: To get back to the point of the thread -- and I am so glad that I've been pin balling back and forth across the country for the past week and so have missed this thread -- the findings of the autopsy in no way change my views that a human being simply cannot be put to death through starvation, dehydration, lethal injection or snuffing with a pillow because they are incapacitated in any way.
Contrary to Jeffrey's assertion that this is out of "a theocratic view of life" or a "totalitarian-religious mindset", it is rather a simple conclusion that the principle of life (call it soul, zoe, bio-mechanical-electro-chemical, whatever) resides within the individual and NO ONE has the authority to deprived another of it simply because they are incapable of defending themselves. This is also in response to JFs questions on OCR -- in which he asked me "Are there ANY circumstances under which the removal of a feeding tube from a patient in a persistent vegetative state would be justified." No. No one can be deprived of essential treatment, which is essentially food, water, and air -- those things necessary for the life processes to function naturally as they do without artificial means of support. Parenthetically, in response to KK's claim that a feeding tube is extraordinary (if and when) it is surgically implanted -- there is a necessary sense of "proportion" between medical efforts and anticipated outcome. While this is a prudential judgment, it is not onerous to provide food via a tube. It is not necessary to do so (arguably), but once the efforts have been made and the patient has been self sustaining with this level of care it is incumbent on the care givers to continue the process since removal will result in the death of the patient FOR THAT REASON ONLY. This is why I still hold that Terri Schiavo was deliberately and intentionally killed. Since you, Jack, are involved in the legal side of things, and must help your clients to decide their advance directives, I would encourage you to look at the "LOVING WILLS", and show your clients that there are options to being put to death after they are incapable of defending themselves. |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| The 89th Key | Jun 18 2005, 12:40 PM Post #145 |
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Good to see you're back IT!
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| Jeffrey | Jun 18 2005, 01:47 PM Post #146 |
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Senior Carp
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Larry: "Nowhere did I ever say she was related to him." Yes, you did. You made quite a point of it. Why make a point of a mere name similarity? Your current excuse makes no sense. *shrugs* Nothing personal Larry, I like a lot of aspects of your online personality, but it's not worth discussing with someone who just apparently makes stuff up on the fly. |
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| Guido | Jun 18 2005, 01:59 PM Post #147 |
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Advanced Member
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Thanka you, thanka you. Father Guido Sarducci | |
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| Larry | Jun 18 2005, 02:07 PM Post #148 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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Prove it, Jeffrey. Put up a link to where I said that. You can't. You can't, because that's not what I said. Now as to your "apparently make things up on the fly" crack, once again you've called me a liar. Well I'm cally *you* a liar. Prove it, or shut up. |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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| Jeffrey | Jun 18 2005, 02:30 PM Post #149 |
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Senior Carp
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Larry - You know as well as I that the old CR links are closed. If you know how to search them, please let me know, ok? I'd be happy to post your original statement. I remember quoting it in full in the original thread, so you couldn't delete if or change your mind on it, like you are now. In the meantime, I "googled" "Schindler Schiavo Jews" and came up with this bit of delusional dreck: "Members of Satan's realm are keenly aware of the reason a person with the last name of Schindler is being targeted to set a precedent which could pave the way for mass killings in the near future. People involved in what insiders call the network know exactly why George Felos made the ability to request a ham sandwich the litmus test for personhood. Schindler is a despised name in Nazi circles because the name reminds them of Oscar Schindler. Near the end of World War II, this Schindler managed to prevent 1,200 people from being exterminated by the Nazi regime. Whether or not Terri's family is related to the Schindler who prevented the deaths of twelve hundred people is unimportant. The name is symbolic and Satan uses symbols to mark his doings in the world. The people Oscar Schindler saved were Jews. That is the reason George Felos mentioned a sandwich that no Jewish person could ask for in good conscience: a ham sandwich. The symbolism is obvious. The New World Order planners are exacting revenge for a "wrong" Schindler committed in Satan's most recent attempt at global government. " Further evidence of the delusions present among the totalitarian theocrats behind the Schiavo fiasco. I rest my case. |
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| Larry | Jun 18 2005, 02:32 PM Post #150 |
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Mmmmmmm, pie!
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Here Jeffrey, I've saved you the trouble. This time open your eyes while you read. Link to what I said Here is what I said:
No, I said it was ironic that her maiden name was Schindler. Then I referred to the guy in question as her ancestor. Now if her maiden name had been Smith or Jones, I probably wouldn't have made such a connection because the name is far too common. But the name Schindler is not exactly a common name. Do I know for a fact that she is a direct descendent of the famed Schindler? No, of course not. And only an idiot would try to argue that I did. Is it likely that she might be? Sure. They share an uncommon name. By focusing on your little nitpick, you miss the entire point. But that is something you seem to do in most issues you delve into. As far as you losing what little credibility you think that I have, I am not concerned with what you think of my credibility. I don't think much of your's either. There - you used the same stupid logic the first time you said something to me about it that you're using now, and you're making the same stupid mistake again. What is it you don't understand about "it is ironic that her last name is Schindler"? |
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Of the Pokatwat Tribe | |
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This is more fun than you would think!

4:18 PM Jul 10