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Terry Shiavo's brain was half the normal weight; Autopsy found no evidence of abuse
Topic Started: Jun 15 2005, 08:10 AM (4,313 Views)
QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
Quote:
 
Which is why we can use you as an example of someone who does not respond to external stimuli.


Oh my goodness, that's the best laugh I've had here in a long while!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
ycul
Jun 15 2005, 04:54 PM
Jolly
Jun 15 2005, 11:38 PM
Ok, I answered my own question, but I still have issues with that call.

And the insulin theory, especially later during care, cannot be disproved, nor can initial poisoning theories, since the the toxicology upon admission was by fluorescent polarization immunoassay, and not gas-liquid chromatography.

Two points that need to be re-emphasized...

1. No matter what our resident shyster says, a forensic autopsy on the day after death is highly unusual. So is the fact that most CAP fellows do not mind another path in the room while they are doing gross.

I challenge anybody to refute that last statement. Period.

2. Cause of death? Unknown. Hypokalemia was the mitigating factor of admission, but the other chemistries such as the TP & ALB could easily be explained by bolus. The hypokalemia explanation is/was not sufficient for the path to call the ball.

Wanna argue with that statement?

Well, here's the post:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0615051terri1.html

The above post may give the false impression that Jolly knows and understands something about medicine. In fact this could not be further from the truth. For irrefutable evidence to the contrary check number four on this link. It is a statement delivered in the manner of someone of who is an authority on the subject and yet is entirely wrong. The scenario isn't even an unusual one as I've recently discovered from an oncologist.
Just helping people to see these posts in context. :)

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ulti...ic/10/7336.html

I am not an MD, and have stated such before.

I have however, participated in more than 100 posts, and yes, I can do some initial gross by myself.

As for medical cases, go back and read some of the OCR stuff, where Palindrome cited the cases (BTW, Pal is a CAP fellow, same as the forensic path who did this case).

Lastly, I fail to see the connection between oncologists, and pathologists, other than they are both MDs, just like psychiatrists. If you'd like, please show where they have like skills, in the area of their residencies.

Pardon me, while I sit back and laugh....

The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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ycul
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Junior Carp
JOLLY:

"I have however, participated in more than 100 posts, and yes, I can do some initial gross by myself."

Since when does a high coffee room post count make you an authority on anything?



"Lastly, I fail to see the connection between oncologists, and pathologists, other than they are both MDs, just like psychiatrists. If you'd like, please show where they have like skills, in the area of their residencies."

Glad to see you can't see a connection Jolly. Apart from the fact that they're both much more highly qualified than you there isn't one. My point, in case you missed it the first time, is that in the OCR link I posted you made a statement on a medical issue that was 100% untrue. Therefore, I'm merely providing readers of your previous posts on the medical issues pertaining to Terry Schiavo with some important contextual background to your knowledge - or rather the lack of it.

"Pardon me, while I sit back and laugh...."

Keeping laughing bud, the joke's on you.
;)
How now, brown cow.
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QuirtEvans
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I Owe It All To John D'Oh
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JOLLY:

"I have however, participated in more than 100 posts, and yes, I can do some initial gross by myself."

Since when does a high coffee room post count make you an authority on anything?


As much as it pains me to defend Jolly in anything ... and believe me, it pains me greatly ... he meant "post" as shorthand for "post-mortem".

The rest of your post is spot on, though.

Moreover:

Quote:
 
I am not an MD, and have stated such before.


If you've stated such before, it was more than a year ago. I've never seen it, personally, but I'm glad to see that you admit that you have no right to speak authoritatively on medical issues.

You did, however, suggest at one point that you were state-licensed.
It would be unwise to underestimate what large groups of ill-informed people acting together can achieve. -- John D'Oh, January 14, 2010.
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ycul
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Junior Carp
Quirt:
"As much as it pains me to defend Jolly in anything ... and believe me, it pains me greatly ... he meant "post" as shorthand for "post-mortem".

The rest of your post is spot on, though."

Beg your pardon. Apologies.
How now, brown cow.
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The 89th Key
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Phlebas
Jun 16 2005, 06:23 AM
The 89th Key
Jun 15 2005, 08:48 PM
Kenny to answer your original question, these new findings have ZERO effect on my original stance.


Which is why we can use you as an example of someone who does not respond to external stimuli.

You know, I'd love for you to try and explain how it would have changed my original stance, but I know you wont be able to come up with anything. Just like how you were wrong about the "mediums" topic and couldn't admit it, and just like how your ass was handed to you in the WTF thread.

So, I strongly invite you to explain it, but alas I can only envision another:

Posted Image
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
My own opinions aside on the Schiavo case (they might surprise you) ...
Jack asked for evidence of someone having half a brain and functioning.
There is more than one example of this Jack.
I recall a story from about 10 years ago of a young inner city child who took a bullet to the head (stray fire, he wasn't involved). They ended up removing half of his brain, and a large chunk of his skull.
He had to wear head protection all the time of course, and was a bit slow. But was certainly feeling, and interacting with the world around him.
Again, I personally think this has nothing to do with the Schiavo case, but there are numerous examples of people with half a brain continuing to survive, and interact.
Here is one interesting story on the subject:
Boy With Half a Brain
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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Jolly
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Geaux Tigers!
ycul
Jun 16 2005, 06:15 AM
Quirt:
"As much as it pains me to defend Jolly in anything ... and believe me, it pains me greatly ... he meant "post" as shorthand for "post-mortem".

The rest of your post is spot on, though."

Beg your pardon. Apologies.

Why do I feel like I'm arguing with idiots?

Excuse me while I go have lunch with the pathologists - one the regional federal director for bioterrorism response.

Thank you, but I'll not cast pearls before swine....
The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros
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ycul
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Jolly
Jun 16 2005, 06:48 PM
ycul
Jun 16 2005, 06:15 AM
Quirt:
"As much as it pains me to defend Jolly in anything ... and believe me, it pains me greatly ... he meant "post" as shorthand for "post-mortem".

The rest of your post is spot on, though."

Beg your pardon. Apologies.

Why do I feel like I'm arguing with idiots?

Excuse me while I go have lunch with the pathologists - one the regional federal director for bioterrorism response.

Thank you, but I'll not cast pearls before swine....

Listen carefully to the conversation Jolly. You might learn something you can come back and blind us all with. :D ;)
How now, brown cow.
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AlbertaCrude
Bull-Carp
The brain is a mysterious organ. From what my wife tells me, and yes she is a Professional Rehab Med Practitioner with qualifications specific to language impairment owing to brain injuries and disease, it depends on what portions of the brain are damaged or missing. In theory, a person could still function, albeit impaired, with half a brain.
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
AlbertaCrude
Jun 16 2005, 09:54 AM
. . . a person could still function, albeit impaired, with half a brain.

I've been told I've been doing this for years.
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kenny
HOLY CARP!!!
Jolly
Jun 16 2005, 09:48 AM


Excuse me while I go have lunch with the pathologists - one the regional federal director for bioterrorism response.

Thank you, but I'll not cast pearls before swine....

Oink Oink.
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ycul
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AlbertaCrude
Jun 16 2005, 06:54 PM
The brain is a mysterious organ. From what my wife tells me, and yes she is a Professional Rehab Med Practitioner with qualifications specific to language impairment owing to brain injuries and disease, it depends on what portions of the brain are damaged or missing. In theory, a person could still function, albeit impaired, with half a brain.

http://www.nbc10.com/health/4563166/detail.html
How now, brown cow.
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
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I've been told I've been doing this for years.


LOL Kenny :thumb: me too
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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The 89th Key
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Yeah I'm not sure what all the debate is over...there have been many people who have functioned (barely) without half of their brain!

Posted Image
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AlbertaCrude
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ycul
Jun 16 2005, 09:58 AM

I seem to recall this girl being a case study on a PBS Nova programme about the brain about 3 or 4 years ago.

Thanks Lucy
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Nina
Senior Carp
ycul
Jun 16 2005, 10:58 AM
AlbertaCrude
Jun 16 2005, 06:54 PM
The brain is a mysterious organ. From what my wife tells me, and yes she is a Professional Rehab Med Practitioner with qualifications specific to language impairment owing to brain injuries and disease, it depends on what portions of the brain are damaged or missing. In theory, a person could still function, albeit impaired, with half a brain.

http://www.nbc10.com/health/4563166/detail.html

The plasticity of the brain is well-documented but completely mysterious. There are a few things that this girl had going for her, neurologically speaking, that probably contributed to her successful outcome... but it's still miraculous and can't be explained.

1. She was a girl. There is evidence that there's more info that crosses the corpus colossum in girls than in boys. Another way of saying this is that information is shared across the two hemispheres more for girls than boys. Who knows why?

2. She was young. The brain's ability to recover function is better with children than with adults.

3. Her disease didn't persist for years and years. The longer the brain is non-responsive, the less likely it is to respond.

Comparing different brain-damaged people isn't as simple as it sounds.

PS: She has no peripheral vision but can drive? Eeek!
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Phlebas
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Bull-Carp
The 89th Key
Jun 16 2005, 07:59 AM
Phlebas
Jun 16 2005, 06:23 AM
The 89th Key
Jun 15 2005, 08:48 PM
Kenny to answer your original question, these new findings have ZERO effect on my original stance.


Which is why we can use you as an example of someone who does not respond to external stimuli.

Just like how you were wrong about the "mediums" topic and couldn't admit it, and just like how your ass was handed to you in the WTF thread.



I think you're mistaking WTF with the OCR. I don't remember any discussion of "media" or "mediums" in WTF. Also, in addition to not reacting to external stimuli, you seem to be suffering from severe memory loss, at least regarding the consensus on who had their ass handed to them in the OCR thread on mediums, and who did not.

Anything else you need added to your chart?
Random FML: Today, I was fired by my boss in front of my coworkers. It would have been nice if I could have left the building before they started celebrating. FML

The founding of the bulk of the world's nation states post 1914 is based on self-defined nationalisms. The bulk of those national movements involve territory that was ethnically mixed. The foundation of many of those nation states involved population movements in the aftermath. When the only one that is repeatedly held up as unjust and unjustifiable is the Zionist project, the term anti-semitism may very well be appropriate. - P*D


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apple
one of the angels
exactly 89!.. Don't you dare pretend you won. You SOOOOOOOOOOO lost.
it behooves me to behold
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The 89th Key
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Phlebas
Jun 16 2005, 03:42 PM
The 89th Key
Jun 16 2005, 07:59 AM
Phlebas
Jun 16 2005, 06:23 AM
The 89th Key
Jun 15 2005, 08:48 PM
Kenny to answer your original question, these new findings have ZERO effect on my original stance.


Which is why we can use you as an example of someone who does not respond to external stimuli.

Just like how you were wrong about the "mediums" topic and couldn't admit it, and just like how your ass was handed to you in the WTF thread.



I think you're mistaking WTF with the OCR. I don't remember any discussion of "media" or "mediums" in WTF. Also, in addition to not reacting to external stimuli, you seem to be suffering from severe memory loss, at least regarding the consensus on who had their ass handed to them in the OCR thread on mediums, and who did not.

Anything else you need added to your chart?

I didn't say anything about discussing "mediums" in WTF, now did I?

Wrong again.

And in the OCR when you used "mediums" incorrectly, you said it was correct if you use the OED. Long story short, every source you wanted to use, and that I wanted to use, both confirmed that you were indeed 100% incorrect. Quite amusing actually, how you were unable to grasp a simple fact.

You can go ask Frank for the archive if you want...but I doubt you want to emarass yourself again. :thumb:
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The 89th Key
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apple
Jun 16 2005, 05:06 PM
exactly 89!.. Don't you dare pretend you won. You SOOOOOOOOOOO lost.

What!? Are you talking about the mediums thread in the OCR?

Phlebas couldn't have been more wrong. We used every source there was! It was fun! :lol:
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apple
one of the angels
AlbertaCrude
Jun 16 2005, 12:54 PM
The brain is a mysterious organ. From what my wife tells me, and yes she is a Professional Rehab Med Practitioner with qualifications specific to language impairment owing to brain injuries and disease, it depends on what portions of the brain are damaged or missing. In theory, a person could still function, albeit impaired, with half a brain.

Did you ever ponder the reason why your wife married you? :2face:
it behooves me to behold
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AlbertaCrude
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Because I was a good poker player.
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KlavierBauer
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HOLY CARP!!!
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but I doubt you want to emarass yourself again.


:thumb:

Is emarass in the OED?
"I realize you want him to touch you all over and give you babies, but his handling of the PR side really did screw the pooch." - Ivory Thumper
"He said sleepily: "Don't worry mom, my dick is like hot logs in the morning." - Apple

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The 89th Key
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KlavierBauer
Jun 16 2005, 05:41 PM
Quote:
 
but I doubt you want to emarass yourself again.


:thumb:

Is emarass in the OED?

Damn typo! :P

...but unlike Phlebe, I'll admit when I've been proven wrong. :cool:

Although I think an incorrect spelling/typo is not as bad as pure ignorance and a stubborn attitude when the rulebook that YOU suggested proves you wrong. :biggrin: :lol:
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