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| Job Hunt Whine; or Yes, kenny, I am a woman | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 13 2005, 07:55 PM (419 Views) | |
| dolmansaxlil | Jun 13 2005, 07:55 PM Post #1 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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[rant] As I've mentioned before, I'm a supply (substitute) teacher with the local school board. I have done about 95% of my teaching in one school, have been in every classroom there, am well known by the students, and well liked by the staff and principal. There is an opening for the fall for a .9 Resource (special ed) position (basically it's full time, with one afternoon a week off). The principal has made it very clear (covertly) that he wants to hire me. The staff have made it very clear that I would be a good addition to the team, and have made that clear to the principal. I know the kids (grade 6-8) that I would be working with. I have my special education qualifications, and experience working with kids with special needs. I LOVE that school and if I could work anywhere in the board, it would be my first choice. That's rare - many teachers see that school as the LAST place they want to be (low income area, lots of broken homes, over half the kids are on caseload for special needs, and it's out in the sticks). The problem is that if a permanent teacher applies for the position, they aren't able to hire someone from the occasional list (ie. me) for the job. No matter how much they may not want to hire that permanent teacher, if even one applies, they get the job. The job has been through TWO rounds of postings to permanent staff and NO ONE has applied. No one wants to touch it, because it's an undesireable position. Talking to a coworker at my other job tonight - someone I went through Teacher's College with - she said she's considering applying for the position. She's permanent, and has a .5 (mornings only) job in the board. So if she applies, it automatically disqualifies me from the position. She told me flat out that she doesn't want to work at that school, she doesn't want the commute, she doesn't want that grade level, and she doesn't want a resource position. She wants the job because she's desperate for the full time (or close to it) position. This pisses me off immensely. It drives me nuts that a job that the hiring principal WANTS to give me, that the staff wants me in, and that I desperately WANT (not just cause it's a job, but because it's THAT job in THAT school) and would be really good at, will slip through my fingers because of a technicality. To someone who does NOT want to be there, no less. Grrrrr. To top it off, because I've been in that school so much, I'm not known by other principals, so the chances of me getting hired for another position are slim to none. There are all kinds of other job posted - but they are all .1 and .2 positions (one half day or one full day a week). It would get me into the permanent teachers list (meaing I could apply for internal positions), but it means that if another full time job came along (or a .5 or .7 that didn't fit the same schedule) if I took a .1 I'm locked into that contract for a year and couldn't apply for other jobs. Grrrrr. I want this job. Desperately. The kids at this school are currently working on writing murder mystery plays. I apparently am a character in one of them. A suspect for the murder of several full time teachers at the school - all because I want a job there. I'm starting to think that maybe life should imitate art... :ph43r: :angry: :angry: ![]() [/rant] |
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"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst." ~ Henri Cartier-Bresson My Flickr Photostream | |
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| katie | Jun 13 2005, 09:38 PM Post #2 |
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Fulla-Carp
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Hate to say it but this smells of the real world ... Hate to say it but this smells of the real world of unions ... Hate to say it but have you thought of applying your skills privately? ... You have my empathy. Life sucks. I was bumped twice as a young RN by a couple of fat lazy women who wanted full time & I was bottom gal on the totem pole (& grrr they weren't even pediatric nurses!). I was left behind in "temporary full time positions". I got my arse out of these jobs as soon as I could & plotted to find full time work in "safer", "essential" areas that needed me & where few would venture (Pediatric & Neonatal ICU). I also felt "safe" in the ICUs b/c I could jump the picket line without explanation if need be, b/c I was deemed an "essential" worker. When the politics & unionism began to suck further there ... I jumped out of scope, into education, then into management. Then I imploded ... but this is another story! If I understand your circumstances correctly, my advice would be ... stick with it ... suck up to that principal ... and take the first temporary part time/full time job available at that school. Don't be surprised if the woman who gets the job you so desire jumps ship as soon as something better comes along. You'll then be better positioned to pounce with a little seniority in that particular school. Again, I apologize if I don't understand your situation or the politics. If it's any comfort to you, I'm sure the principal has plenty of experience working "within" & "around" the "union rules" .... If she gives you advice ... take it. She may be aware of something you're not at present (like a budget increase), & could be quietly coaching you for something permanent. She probably has seen this situation many times before too. Cultivate allies where you can. Goog Luck Dolmanaxlil.
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| Ballyhoo | Jun 13 2005, 10:45 PM Post #3 |
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Middle Aged Carp
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Maybe you could get the other staff to start a petition for you, and get the parents involved. It's in everyone's best interest that you get the job. |
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| dolmansaxlil | Jun 14 2005, 03:02 AM Post #4 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Katie, Yup - you nailed it bang on. The private sector isn't really an option for a couple reasons: a) the pay sucks in private education 2) the health benefits suck in private education 3) the pension is non-existant in private education. In other words, I'm complaining about a union rule when the reason I won't go private (other than the fact that I have a philisophical problem with teaching in the private sector in Ontario) is partially because of the very benefits that the union has gotten teachers here. So yeah, I DO need to suck it up. And I recognize that, but it's frustrating nonetheless. ESPECIALLY because this principal is retiring June 30th, so if I don't get something I'll have to go through sucking up all over again next year to the new principal. I'll be in a better position (the staff already knows me and they are the ones that usually schedule their supply teachers). Ballyhoo, Unfortunately, in this case there's nothing that can be done parent-wise. It's a firm union rule, and if we try to circumvent it (especially in an obvious way) it'll mean the position would be grieved by the union and taken from me anyways, so I'm kind of stuck working within that rule. What it comes down to is I do support our union, and I understand why the rule is there. But sometimes, like any other hiring practise, it ends up being very far from what is in the best interest of the kids and the school. That's one of the reasons for the rant - because I'm really powerless (as is the principal) to do anything about it. It IS possible that there will be a budget increase or SOMETHING and a long-term occasional will open up for next year (or part way through the year). It's just unfortunate that the situation is what it is at this point. |
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"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst." ~ Henri Cartier-Bresson My Flickr Photostream | |
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| Ballyhoo | Jun 14 2005, 03:27 AM Post #5 |
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Middle Aged Carp
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That sucks. Good luck with getting the job. |
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| kenny | Jun 14 2005, 03:58 AM Post #6 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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You said you spoke to this other teacher who may get the job. You told us what she told you, why she doesn't want the job. What did you tell her? Did you tell her everything you told us? Call her back. But don't tell her you want "her" job. Talk about the kids. Give examples of the contribution you make to their lives. Don't talk about yourself. Focus on the hope you have for those kids. Break her heart a little. Finesse it, but guilt her. It couldn't hurt, and it may work. Like Katie said if she gets the job she may not last long. I think another opportunity will open up for you. It sounds like you are a real asset to these kids. |
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| Luke's Dad | Jun 14 2005, 04:15 AM Post #7 |
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Emperor Pengin
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I agree with Kenny. Approach her. |
| The problem with having an open mind is that people keep trying to put things in it. | |
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| Jolly | Jun 14 2005, 05:07 AM Post #8 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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Absolutely. Another observation about healthcare that dovetails with your story...sometimes the most opportunity, can be found in the carpiest jobs. Although, that could be said about a lot of fields.... |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| big al | Jun 14 2005, 07:35 AM Post #9 |
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Bull-Carp
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Good luck, dol. I hope you can work it out both for your sake and for the kids. The discussion that you and Katie opened about union rules is a subject I haven't seen kicked around here. Maybe we can hijack the thread for that purpose. I have mentioned before that I grew up on a farm. To us there and then, unions represented socialism, if not communism, and an encroachment on the rights of the individual. A subject that was hotly debated back then was "right to Work" laws. After I became an adult, I had many occasions to work within industries where most of the workforce was unionized. I also became friends with people who grew up in mill towns and coal patches here in western Pennsylvania where the company police ran things pretty much to suit themselves at one time. I learned much more about the history of capital/labor relationships in the producing industries. This led me to conclude that unions were not, in and of themselves, evil institutions. Rather, they were a reflection of the fact that individuals have little opportunity to oppose the might of large organized groups. Once capital was organized in the shape of large enterprises and ultimately giant corporations, unions became a necessary counterpoise to that strength. To maintain some balance between the two required the application of another giant force, big government. Theses issues have been wrestled with on a national stage for the past century and a half. With the rise of global interaction, they pose new problems and opportunities to contend with. The trauma of the companies and workers dealing with the legacy of previous agreements regarding pensions, healthcare, and related issues in many industries is symptomatic of that trauma. The trend toward globalization will not stop, so we have to decide how to deal with the impact. My personal largest fear at present is big government as it comes to directly control the employment of more and more people and indirectly affect the livelihood of many, perhaps most, of us. The saving grace perhaps is our ability to control the government, but as increasing numbers become directly beholden to it for their income and subject to rules and regulations restricting their political activity, I begin to question our ability to control our own creation. I thought perhaps this might intitate some discussion or anecdotes such as Katie and Dol have shared relating to the larger relationships of employers, employees, and institutions. Big Al |
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Location: Western PA "jesu, der simcha fun der man's farlangen." -bachophile | |
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| ivorythumper | Jun 14 2005, 07:49 AM Post #10 |
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I am so adjective that I verb nouns!
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It all sounds like a Mafia deal -- whoever is a made man has absolute seniority over the soldiers, you can't touch a made man, you have to suck up and have no recourse... THe unions IMO have long outlived their usefulness (which once was quite important to protect the rights and avoid exploitation of workers). Dol, have a cup of coffee with her, and let her know how much it means to you. |
| The dogma lives loudly within me. | |
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| AlbertaCrude | Jun 14 2005, 09:08 AM Post #11 |
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Bull-Carp
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Dolmansaxlil: I can empathsize with you. For some reason four years ago I decided to renew my lapsed teaching certificate. It meant taking a few education courses and redoing my practicum. I had been working with the Alberta Government in the Economic Development & International Trade Ministry for 17 years and as a private contractor to a large Houston based oil and gas equipment manufacturer for 5 years. After 20 plus years of international travel in this field I was fed up with planes, fed up with hotels, just fed up with travel in general. I wrongly came to the conclusion that I couldn't break the career type cast unless I made a radical shift. Teaching appeared to be an alternative- I had real life experience in governance, international affairs and commerce as well as *roll up your sleeves and get dirty* oil patch experience on the rigs that I could offer students. Teaching also had time off at Christmas, Easter and summers. Most importantly there was little or no travel and being away form home for nine months of the year or for years on end. I completed my certification requirements and was ready to teach. But there was a problem. It was called the Alberta Teachers Association- a trade union masquerading as a professional association. I had never had to deal with one these behemoths before- not even in government as I was always classified as management and, here in Alberta, the Alberta Gov't Employees Union was weak and had no power within the ministry I had worked. The ATA union was at the time holding all the school boards ransom by conducting rotating strikes and forcing the school boards to employ only teachers with seniority in the union. Like yourself, I was on the outside looking. A principal at a high school found a short term loop hole and brought me on as a "consultant" to work with the high school IB students. This worked until the *union* got wind of what was going on, and launched a grievance with the school board, Alberta Labour Relations and Alberta Education. Suddenly I was a threat to the collective bargaining negotiations and my presence in the classroom posed a grave danger to the future of the ATA. My Associate Membership along with the professional liability insurance for anyone teaching in Alberta within a week cancelled as per a directive of the ATA Executive. The premiums for private professional liability insurance of $5 millon didn't make economic sense under the terms of the existing contract. As well, with all the fuss I knew that the the union types in the school were causing trouble and the school board was not comfortable with situation given the collective bargaining negotiations. Both the principal and agreed that it would be better to slowly fade away and let the contract expire on its own. Indeed, there was no point in either of us taking on the ATA union mafia. In the end it was a blessing in disguise. Shortly after this I returned to the private sector, back in the oil patch (sort of) with an industy association (250 corporate members) that advocates on behalf of environmental service companies. We offer professional development courses on soil and water remediation and reclamation; we conduct topical seminars and workshops for the environment industry; we are completing a CIDA project in Latin America on environmental management and emergency response in the oil and gas sector; we serve on numerous Alberta & Federal government stakeholder committees pertaining to environmental management and; most recently establishing a charity to increase awareness that there is a growing environmental services industry that employs close to 65,000 techicians and professionals in the province and provide scholarships for future practitioners in enviromental sciences (engineering, chemistry, biology, law etc.). The beauty of it is that there is no classroom management, interesting subject matter, minimal travel, an office of three people and no bloody union. The flex time and the money's pretty good too. ... hang in there. |
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| TomK | Jun 14 2005, 09:57 AM Post #12 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Unions are bad for business and bad for people. Their time has come and gone. Best of luck, dol. |
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| apple | Jun 14 2005, 09:59 AM Post #13 |
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one of the angels
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unions were good, now they are not as good. |
| it behooves me to behold | |
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| dolmansaxlil | Jun 15 2005, 06:09 PM Post #14 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Update: I spoke to the girl tonight, and she has not applied for the job. It's only a small victory, since any number of other permanent teachers could apply for it, but at least it's not the person who I KNOW doesn't want it! And if I'm still supplying next year, I won't have to deal with seeing her around every day being bitter that she has MY job (tee hee). So we'll see how it goes. Deadline for applications is this Friday. They'll call about interviews Monday, and interviews should be Tuesday afternoon. My guess is that when I'm in the school on Monday, the principal will give me a heads up as far as whether a permenent has already applied. |
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"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst." ~ Henri Cartier-Bresson My Flickr Photostream | |
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| Friday | Jun 15 2005, 06:23 PM Post #15 |
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Senior Carp
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Good luck. |
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| Axtremus | Jun 15 2005, 06:35 PM Post #16 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Before I read your update, I was thinking you could approach her, seduce her, take a few incriminating photos, and send them to the school board or something... oh well, I'll save that brilliant idea for the next time. ![]() Good luck!
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| dolmansaxlil | Jun 15 2005, 06:42 PM Post #17 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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*snicker I might have let it slip (without using her name, but with enough detail that it would be obvious to an interviewer looking at her resume that it was her) that she didn't really WANT the job
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"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst." ~ Henri Cartier-Bresson My Flickr Photostream | |
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| kentcouncil | Jun 15 2005, 09:06 PM Post #18 |
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Fulla-Carp
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Good luck, dol. |
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It was a confusion of ideas between him and one of the lions he was hunting in Kenya that had caused A. B. Spottsworth to make the obituary column. He thought the lion was dead, and the lion thought it wasn't. - P.G. Wodehouse | |
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| dolmansaxlil | Jun 17 2005, 12:04 PM Post #19 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Not sure if anyone is bothering to read my updates, but here's another. No word on whether a permanent applied. My gut feeling is yes. However. A new list of postings came out today. These ones are long term occasional postings, most of them for the whole school year. 99% of the time they are to cover maternity leaves, so you get your own classroom for one year until the teacher returns to work. It's not a bad gig - same daily rate I make now for supplying, but in your own room. It's not permanent, so I'd have to go through trying to find a new job next year (though by then I may want to leave this area, so that's not a bad thing). Even though the gross pay is slightly lower (about $5K), the net pay is higher because there are less deductions (though you don't get a summer paycheque, so you have to sock away the difference to get through the summer). Not a bad situation. I don't know any of the hiring principals, but I have a couple things in my favour: I don't have to compete with permanent teachers, and new teachers have to have 20 supply days in to apply, so new graduates can't apply, which lowers the field by a whole bunch. Basically, it'll be a combination of luck of the draw and me interviewing well - I'll need to hope that some of the hiring principals don't already have someone in mind and that I nail the interview and impress. So my hope for having SOMETHING full time for next year is restored. IT won't be in the school I want, which is unfortunate, but there are a lot of attractive positions within about a 40 minute drive. |
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"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst." ~ Henri Cartier-Bresson My Flickr Photostream | |
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| big al | Jun 17 2005, 12:37 PM Post #20 |
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Bull-Carp
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Dol, don't count the preferred position out. Nonetheless, it's good to have a second string in the bow. I'm still hoping you get what you really want. Big Al |
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Location: Western PA "jesu, der simcha fun der man's farlangen." -bachophile | |
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| Jolly | Jun 17 2005, 12:41 PM Post #21 |
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Geaux Tigers!
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Updates? We all read your updates! Keep 'em comin'.... |
| The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States.- George Soros | |
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| dolmansaxlil | Jun 18 2005, 05:50 PM Post #22 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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Yet another update. Interview on Tuesday at 3:50. The chicky who called wouldn't say if the job I want is still in contention - just that I was interviewing for everything I applied for. I'll try to find out on Monday when I'm at work. Now I have to get down to studying for the interview. |
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"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst." ~ Henri Cartier-Bresson My Flickr Photostream | |
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| NAK-1.0 | Jun 18 2005, 05:59 PM Post #23 |
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Senior Carp
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You know, I could come down and keep the "chicky" busy while you take over the job.
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| dolmansaxlil | Jun 18 2005, 06:02 PM Post #24 |
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HOLY CARP!!!
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LOL! I think you'd change your mind if you saw her, Nak. She's an interesting character. |
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"Your first 10,000 photographs are your worst." ~ Henri Cartier-Bresson My Flickr Photostream | |
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4:19 PM Jul 10