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Teen Titans #83; May 2010
Topic Started: Feb 16 2010, 05:16 PM (5,830 Views)
Lizard-Man
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Read "All in the Family" again Pliss maybe that will cheer you up after all of this.

See this is why I'm not too big on picking up Titans books, it's not engaging me and if this Wyld thing is just another Raven goes bad arc again I'm dropping off the radar for a good while.
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The "#84" part was a typo on DC's part. It's been fixed and I changed the thread name to accommodate. Also, it's not coming out in June, but the last week of May.
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I've been thinking...

We all heard that Raven would be making a change "not for the better" and we naturally assumed that she was going evil again. However...

I thought back on the last encounter with the Wyld. Dr Midnight mentions that due to it's attack on Raven, that she was slightly less powerful. I'm wondering if the change for the worse isn't her going evil, but being depowered after a prolonged attack from the Wyld.

If you look at the cover, she isn't attacking but being carried unconcious by her soulself. Perhaps after the Wyld devours empathic powers, it gains control of them. Maybe this means that Raven's soulself could end up trasnfered to the Wyld.

With the Titans roster needing room, it woldn't surprise me if they choose to depower (temporarily or otherwise) the characters they didn't want on the team making an easy out for them.
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Feb 27 2010, 01:16 AM
With the Titans roster needing room, it woldn't surprise me if they choose to depower (temporarily or otherwise) the characters they didn't want on the team making an easy out for them.

Why does this keep coming up? We have no real hints anyones leaving and Dan's said they're on the team for the forseeable future. I don't understand why the notion of the two leaving is still being considered a possibility.

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I'm wondering if the change for the worse isn't her going evil, but being depowered after a prolonged attack from the Wyld.

I'm thinking more "under the Wylds control". Which was where I thought it was going. Frankly, if they were going for a depowering or story like that I think more attention would be brought to it thus far. As it stands, we haven't even had a hint of Raven's power levels dropping, which suggests to me that this is not where they're heading. Granted Felicia's a newbie in comic writing, but she's been in television for quite a while to the point where she probably understands the concept of subplots in a story, which brings me to the above conclusion.

Besides which, that theory's a bit out there considering what we know; often the simplest answer or theory is the correct one.
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I wasn't really trying to figure out what was happening, more to point out that there are other ways this can go without the evil Raven route being brought up again.

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As it stands, we haven't even had a hint of Raven's power levels dropping


As for this, we've had more than a hint, but a flat out statement...

Issue #76

Dr Midnight:... Could be what comprimised her empathic power center.

Beast Boy: Comprimised it? What do you mean, com--

Dr M: It's been partially consumed

BB: She Gonna be okay?

Dr M: Completed cellular reconstruction of her physical injuries.

BB: And her mind?

Dr M: Even like this, she's a very powerful empath.

...


Here, the good Doctor is right out saying that she isn't complete. She's still very powerful, but not what she was. The Wyld took some power from her, and futher more was able to only take from her empathy while her physical condition recieved no permanent damage. I imagine that if given the chance it could then remove all of her empathy but still leave her physically healthy. Further more look at how the soulself is grasping Raven in it's talons, not eminating from her body. That makes me think that it is coming from some one else.

I'm not saying that they are getting rid of her and this is how they'll do it nor am I saying that any of this would be permanent. However I think that the possibility may be valid and not terribly unheard of.

Perhaps this is something that will be resolved in a later arc, or even the lead-in to the very next arc. Anyway, granted that any powerloss wasn't permanent, it could be an interesting way to go. It's certainly a place we've never seen Raven before and it would be a refreashing change from her Jean Grey-ish habit of simply switching from good to bad all the time.

Besides, we often talk about how so few writers know how to write for Raven. Who knows, a reintroduction of her powers and abilities might be the training wheels needed for an un familiar writer to understand and better use a character like Raven.

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Why does this keep coming up? We have no real hints anyones leaving and Dan's said they're on the team for the forseeable future. I don't understand why the notion of the two leaving is still being considered a possibility.


I'm truly sorry. I shan't bring the subject up again.
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As for this, we've had more than a hint, but a flat out statement...

Yes, but my point is that it hasn't been brought up again and we haven't actually been shown her powers dropping. If she were going to be, say, depowered or whatever, it's very likely a much bigger deal would have been made out of her powers dropping. Subplot leading up to when it becomes the main plot and all that. Typically that's how writing things like this go.

It's a matter of the nature of writing that makes me think the depowering theory isn't what's going to happen.

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I'm truly sorry. I shan't bring the subject up again.

I apologize if I got snippy. It just seems like everyones talking about the two leaving the team like they want it to happen. Which would be awful; not only would we not see either for long stretches of time, but considering they were inactive and have proven difficult to please fans with, when in limbo they might be seen as suitable canon fodder for the next event. Granted, not everyone in limbo becomes canon fodder or anything, but it's a risk I don't care to entertain.

The writing isn't all that hot at all but I'd rather the two were here than in limbo.
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If you look at the cover, she isn't attacking but being carried unconcious by her soulself. Perhaps after the Wyld devours empathic powers, it gains control of them. Maybe this means that Raven's soulself could end up trasnfered to the Wyld.


Sounds logical, but then again, we haven't seen anything goin logical lately. But I don't wanna argue on that any further then we already have. What's written is written, so now lets just hope that this story goes somewhere we can agree on.

However, lately I've been aiming both this de-powered theory of yours BK, and the "change not for the better" towards the Brother Blood panel on the O&O page. After-all, he is a vampire (or demonic priest, I forget his latest position) that gains strength from blood, and can take on the abilities of anyone whose blood he has sampled. Plus we see an outcome of him given Raven what looks like the "ultimate hickey" My guess is that he pulls a "Rogue on Ms. Marvel" deal and semi-permanently absorbs her powers.

Course, there's that guess we had back then that the Wyld is somehow connected with Sebastian. Either way, I'm sayin that we might want to wait awhile longer before we start thinkin that Raven is gonna go....how'd she put, Dark Diva in high-heels? Seein that we just finished a evil Raven storyline.

Plus they've managed to give most out comes on the O&O panel; Eddie's dead, Gar "got some" with BL terra, and Rose holdin a sword towards Cassie. Now I think we're about to witness the rest of it.

The whole "Cassie+Conner=not good" statement on #82 could bring up that scene with Jamie and Cassie. And there was word that's most likely that M'gann is the shadowed pregnant girl. But like I said, "there was word". And there's that panel with Static, which I'm guessin is where this whole return to Dakota and Holocaust lays in.
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Well, let's keep in mind that the Origins and Omens page was written back when Sean McKeever was still the ongoing writer of the title. He left several months later with many of the Omens unfulfilled. It's pretty safe to say we can discount those Omens; considering they were plans by McKeever we're not likely to see any of the ones that didn't come up close to the time the Omens were given. Same thing happened to Justice League's Omens when Dwayne MacDuffie was fired.

I doubt we're going to see an Evil Raven storyline either. My main guess still sits with "taken over by the Wyld for an issue or two" or something similar. It seems logical; Brother Blood did the same thing when Raven was first brought back to life.
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when in limbo they might be seen as suitable canon fodder for the next event.


This most certainly is true, in the DCU unused Titans do seem to be the prefered red-shirts. Don't get me wrong, I don't want them leaving this title at all. It took us long enough to get both characters back after one year later, I don't want them out of the public eye again.

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Yes, but my point is that it hasn't been brought up again and we haven't actually been shown her powers dropping. If she were going to be, say, depowered or whatever, it's very likely a much bigger deal would have been made out of her powers dropping. Subplot leading up to when it becomes the main plot and all that. Typically that's how writing things like this go.


I do understand where you're coming from, but one important detail to keep in mind the Wylde is a brand new element. Being completely new, it has no back story given yet, so every single detail we learn about it (whether that info comes from the author, the character itself, or the characters around it) is essentially exposition. That dialogue between BB and Doc Midnight was put there to allow the reader to learn about the nature of the Wylde's abilities without it being deliberately handed to them. Good exposition is always subtle and allows the reader to peice thing together theirselves but still leave them with enough wiggle room for surprise.

With that small bit of information, we aren't made certain in anyway what will happen, but we are made aware of what is possible. The Wylde does have the potential to remove Raven's powers from her, regardless of if it ever actually will.

As for Raven's powers not showing any lack, I would make the arguement that she hasn't had the oppertunity to show this one way or the other. And I wouldn't think that this an affermative that it didn't mean anything, more as I would say it is neglect on Felicia's part to address subplots during the main arc.

There were many plot points during the first to issues with the Wylde that were obviously meant to foreshadow things to come which have all but dissappeared during this arc. M'gann for instance, was more concearned and effected by the Wylde than most any of the other cast. They even went to the point of using her diary to tell us more of the creatures origin and hint that M'gann had some personal hand to play in the further story of the Wylde. Yet recently M'gann has done little more than Raven.

I wouldn't count lack of emphasis on any detail to equal lack of potential importance. The key word being "potential"

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The whole "Cassie+Conner=not good" statement on #82 could bring up that scene with Jamie and Cassie. And there was word that's most likely that M'gann is the shadowed pregnant girl.


Was that supposed to be Jamie? maybe it was just how the picture was colored but I got the feeling that it was supposed to be Black Beetle. As for the mystery pregnant girl... I had originally thought it could be M'gann, but I also assumed that Eddie would have been the father right before he died. If Eddie isn't the father, I doubt M'gan would get traditionally pregnant. However, with her martian physiology there are always non-traditional methods. Perhaps it could be her future self taking the small influence she still has to use M'gann Shapeshifting powers to forge herself a seperate body. This is wild speculation mind you, and I'm half joking as I think it all up, but in comics one never knows either way.

As for the omens in general, I wouldn't exactly count any of them out. More I would just sugest that no one be surprised shoul any of the come through or not.

Lets not forget that three of the five omens for both the Titans and the Teen Titans have happened. The only one yet to occure are Donna being attacked by Indigo and Raven being attacked by Blood from the titans book and Cassie kissing a beetle ans a mystery pregnant girl from the Teen book.

Where i see it, six outta ten suggest that any of the others could happen. Will they? I really can't say one way or the other, but as far as I'm concearned they are all still in the running.
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Speaking of Eddie, I just thought of something. Anyone else think it might be significant that of all the Titans risen from the dead during Blackest Night, Eddie - the freshest wound of all for the Titans - was not one of them? Maybe I'm just grasping at straws and hoping for the best, but part of me wants to believe it means something.

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*lots of stuff about why the lack of shown importance may not be an indicator that the depowered theory is out*

I suppose you're right.

I'm used to a lot of writers showing and forshadowing events through subplots, even when a larger arc is going on, so that's how I tend to view these sort of things. The way I look at it, if Raven were to be depowered, we would be seeing a bigger deal made of it through a subplot running through this arc. But at the same time, I'm assuming that's how Felicia operates. Her television background suggests she would, but that might not mean much; some of her shows she wrote for (like Family Matters) only had a few subplots.

I don't know. I just don't personally think that's where this is going. Especially when we just got off a "depowering" storyline with Eddie. But we shall see, I suppose.

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As for the omens in general, I wouldn't exactly count any of them out.

Eh, well, I'm personally not thinking much of them anymore. If they were all going to happen, it would have been done by now. Keep in mind that the Origins and Omen backups were heavily tied into the at-the-time coming Blackest Night; almost all of the Omens across the line have happened while the event's been going on as well. With Blackest Night ending I don't think the one's that haven't appeared yet are going to.

Also, one has to keep in mind that since then, a lot of things within the Titans have changed creatorwise. Look at the Indigo Omen, for instance; that just screams "Blackest Night ressurected corpse haunts those that would feel the most emotion" to me and I've suspected that was what was originally going to happen with the Titans tie-in instead of Terry and her son. But plans with the books have been in such a state of flux and so much has changed it doesn't look like that will happen this late in the game.

I do think Junior is going to show up again at some point in the future - he's too good a villain to leave out anyways - but I don't think it's going to be right away or anything.

Again, I suppose we'll see soon enough.
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Speaking of Eddie, I just thought of something. Anyone else think it might be significant that of all the Titans risen from the dead during Blackest Night, Eddie - the freshest wound of all for the Titans - was not one of them? Maybe I'm just grasping at straws and hoping for the best, but part of me wants to believe it means something.


I think the idea of the Calculator kidnapping Kid Eternity was meant to be the doorway for Eddie to return. The Calculator was basically training (by force) Eternity to hold on to his summons indefinately. I felt that once he achieved this ability he would use it to essentially switch places with Eddie. However, with Eddie being dead, it could be an oppertunity for him to come back as a true Demon.


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QUOTE (KingoftheBeasts)
*lots of stuff about why the lack of shown importance may not be an indicator that the depowered theory is out*

I suppose you're right.


Nice "summary" that made me laugh pretty hard. I do apologize for being so long winded.

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Look at the Indigo Omen, for instance; that just screams "Blackest Night ressurected corpse haunts those that would feel the most emotion"


you know, I hadn't considered that, but Indigo did die as a organic body, so she very well could have been ressurected as a zombie.

And there's no way Blood isn't coming back somehow. They wouldn't have bothered to make such a full story of how he came back not to use him. Also he may be another window for Eddie's return. We know he can give soul's new bodies. Also he considers Neron's power a curse and certainly wants rid of it. Perhaps he ressurects Eddie in the fashion that Raven and Joe were brought back, and then he attempts to transfer Neron's power back into Eddie.
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I think the idea of the Calculator kidnapping Kid Eternity was meant to be the doorway for Eddie to return. The Calculator was basically training (by force) Eternity to hold on to his summons indefinately. I felt that once he achieved this ability he would use it to essentially switch places with Eddie. However, with Eddie being dead, it could be an oppertunity for him to come back as a true Demon.

I hope this ends up being the case. It comes down to whether someone will pick up on it thought, which I hope someone does. Eddie croaking really bummed the hell out of me.

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Nice "summary" that made me laugh pretty hard. I do apologize for being so long winded.

It's cool. It didn't bother me that it was long or anything. I just didn't want to take the entire thing and put it in the quotebox.

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you know, I hadn't considered that, but Indigo did die as a organic body, so she very well could have been ressurected as a zombie.

I really do think that was the original plan. But as mentioned before, a lot changed around that time. Judd was still Titans writer at the time and Indigo was his character; he was probably to have some hand in a Blackest Night tie-in where he was going to bring in Indigo to fight Donna.

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And there's no way Blood isn't coming back somehow. They wouldn't have bothered to make such a full story of how he came back not to use him.

I agree. I think it's just a matter of when, really. But sooner or later Junior's gonna pop up again. I'm sure of it.
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You know, I just remembered Superboy's on the cover of the next issue, punching Halocaust. I wonder, if Gar's not going to be doing the rescuing himself, perhaps he's going to call for blackup? Gar and Superboy (and maybe even Bart) to the rescue?
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Damn! You're right. I completely forgot about Conner being in the next one. Which means he most likely shows up on the final page just as the battle is going down hill for the team...

Drat, as far as I'm concearned, Conner has two strikes against him. I so Tired of both Young Justice and all the Super family. They couldn't just let on of them stay dead...

As for YJ, Tim developed into something of his own, so nothing really against him and nothing really against Bart (though I don't really care to have him around) Cassie was showing a brief bit of promise, but that got dashed very quickly by the time she became team leader.

But really, with Bombshell, Aquagirl, Raven and Miss Martian hardly doing anything in the stories already, do they really need to add TWO character that demand loads of attention from the writer? Man, if it weren't for the fact that this arc was about Static, he probably wouldn't get much done either.

The kinda pattern the book seems to have right now is Wondergirl in ever page and one of the other characters talking to her. I know that's an exaggeration, but still, add Superboy and KF and all the other focus points get absorbed by the big three...

Right now, the only thing keeping Tim away is his obsession with proving that Bruce is alive. I wonder how Bruce's return will effect The Red Robin title. Hope they don't use that as an excuse to bring Tim back to the Teen Titans too.

Side note: Is Conner still gonna be on Adventure comics or is the LoS secondary taking over the title?
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To be honest, with Bart and Conner jumping on board, I really don't expect Aquagirl, Bombshell and Blue Beetle to be on the team much longer. I'm getting the sense that the book is moving towards something more akin to a pre-OYL roster with Conner, Cassie, Bart, Gar and Raven. Miss Martian will probably stick around and assuming DT's theory of a Static Shock ongoing is off target he'll probably stay too, but don't be surprised if we see some roster pruning.

Which is frankly all right with me, because this really isn't exactly the most interesting roster the Teen Titans have ever had. Aquagirl? Bombshell? Seriously? Also, I love the Blue Beetle character, but Felicia Henderson doesn't get him at all. It's likely Jamie will end up leaving the team to go be a part of the JLI reunion bi-weekly in Ted Kords place (since, you know, last we knew Ted still had a hole in his head).

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I so Tired of both Young Justice

I'm tired of Young Justice as well. I don't get what the big deal is. The four - other than Bart - are nothing like they were in those days. So what's the point?

I'm alright with Conner and I like Bart, but Cassie just needs to get the hell up and out of the book, because she's been stinking it up for what seems like forever.

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Hope they don't use that as an excuse to bring Tim back to the Teen Titans too.

Depends. It's just as possible they'll keep him out as it is that they'll bring him back. I think it depends largely on where things go post-Return of Bruce Wayne.

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Is Conner still gonna be on Adventure comics or is the LoS secondary taking over the title?

Last I knew Conner was leaving the title eventually and the Legion were taking over. Whether that still holds true, I'm not sure. There's a Legion of Superheroes book coming out as well, so I'm not sure if they're going to shoot for two or what.
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