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Teen Titans #83; May 2010
Topic Started: Feb 16 2010, 05:16 PM (5,832 Views)
dl316bh
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Mmm, though of those mentioned the only one I can see doing well is the Year One; and that's just critically, because I don't see an origin story for a B lister selling well. Also, much as we at RBSU love the Titans LA concept, it's hard to ignore that it would have been a tough sell, especially a decade ago when the Titans franchise was more synonymous with "complete ass" than quality. Beast Boy was the highest profile character on there and Geoff wasn't a name yet.
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DeTroyes
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Well, having put my foot in my mouth with what was suppose to be a little joking around, I will point out this:

If they were ever going to do a Raven & BB spinoff, this is the time to do it. The original reason for putting Gar on TT seemed to be give him more responsibility, but that seems to have been thrown out the window now. And Raven just seems to be being wasted here, acting little more than as a demon magnet plot device. If all the younger Titans are just going to ignore any mentoring they may give, then there's really no point to them sticking around.

But really... at the moment, I doubt its going to happen anytime soon.
Supporter of the following ships: (TT) BB/R, Rob/Star, Cy/Jinx, Matt Logan/Bette Kane; (non-TT) Tenchi/Ryoko, Ataru/Lum, Marcus/Susan, Adric/Nyssa, Crichton/Aeryn, Xander/Buffy, Rick Hunter/Lisa Hayes, Paul/Saylah, Harper/Rommie, Keiichi/Belldandy, McGee/Abby
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KingoftheBeasts
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  It was a joke, which is why I put the wink at the end.


lol, it was the wink that through me off. I usually read a wink as implying there is more tha is being said. But then again, I'm devious and mysterrious like that :wink:

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Though Gar does seem to get a fair number of proposals made with him at or near the center (Titans LA, Beast Boy and the Doom Patrol, Beast Boy Year One).


Ture, he did get his own stories in both the Halloween and Christmas specials. It does seem like DC is trying to find him a home or they would have just let him drop out of focus already.

Speaking of which, how is the Doom Patrol title selling? I'd really rather they let the characters build on their own rather than have them ride on BB's coattails, but if the sales were low, I could see DC trying to amp it up by Bringing him in and trying to merge the fan bases.
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dl316bh
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Feb 17 2010, 05:43 PM
Speaking of which, how is the Doom Patrol title selling?

Like grape flavored dog ass, last I checked.

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I'd really rather they let the characters build on their own rather than have them ride on BB's coattails, but if the sales were low, I could see DC trying to amp it up by Bringing him in and trying to merge the fan bases.

Not going to happen, thankfully. Keith Giffen doesn't want to use anyone but the original Doom Patrol members and DC knows better at this point than to try and force characters on The Giffen. Which is good; I am adamantly and fervently against Beast Boy being on the Doom Patrol. Facts are facts; the concept is a dead end and is the last place I'd want one of my favorite DC characters to slum it in, especially when it's probably only running based on it being Keith Giffens dream project.

Come on guys; I know it's frustrating that Beast Boy is not a focus in Teen Titans, but it could be a whole lot ****ing worse. I'd rather have him there then cannon fodder rotting in limbo. Or on a team notorious for never being able to hold an ongoing for long post-Grant Morrison. It sucks, but unless Geoff Johns comes back or someone makes a serious push Beast Boy is probably never going to be a huge deal.
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DeTroyes
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If they did do a Gar & Rae spinoff, chances are it would first be a mini series, to "test the waters" as it were. Alternately, they could involve them in some ongoing event as being part of one of the major subplots, like say Mera in Blackest Night or Tawny Tiger in Final Crisis.

Here's an idea that's been percolating in my mind, spurred on by some of the hints being dropped about plans in 2010 and 2011. There are hints that Raven (along with Kid Devil, Alan Scott, and some others) wind up imprisoned in the 31st century on the Witch Planet, turned to stone in a wall that is said to be the source of some magical powers. There have also been hints that the Legion has some kind of operation going on in the 21st century, one that is suppose to coming to a head quite soon. And then there was a remark someone made on a forum elsewhere to the effect that they'd heard Gar was going to be showing up in Adventure Comics, which is about to become an all-Legion book (although be cautious about this last bit; the person in question did not back up his statement with any indication of where he'd heard the info, or offer any cite). We also know that Raven is suppose to be "transformed, not for the better" sometime in 2010 (Dan Didio's words). And then we have this Wyld thing. Oh, and there's also been some kind of hint of a magic-based event happening in 2011.

So here's a scenario putting all of this together. Suppose the Wyld and this thing on the Witch planet are connected (I refuse to say "Witch World", since to me that has a very specific, Andre Norton connotation). Suppose Raven gets captured/possessed and dragged off, more or less (or probably as part of) whatever this Legion thing is about. Gar for some reason has to turn to the Legion for help (perhaps he too gets stuck in the 31st Century?). That might provide the basis for a mini series - Gar trying to locate Raven and figure out a way to rescue her. Or maybe have the search storyline be a subplot of Adventure, and have a mini series that starts off with the rescue and then proceeds to have both of them on the run in a strange time, with no one to turn to but each other for help.

Anyway, its a pipe dream, I know. But I thought I'd throw it out there.

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Speaking of which, how is the Doom Patrol title selling?


Not very well, I'm afraid. The first issue of the series sold only about 28k, and its been going downhill steadily. It got a boost from a Blackest Night crossover, but lost it all and more once that was over. The sales figures on the January issue were about 17k, which is frankly the upper end of cancellation levels.

But don't expect them to move Gar there. Giffen has definite plans, and the people that are reading it seem to really like it. At the moment, it has all the signs of becoming another Jonah Hex or REBELS - critically acclaimed, but low selling.
Supporter of the following ships: (TT) BB/R, Rob/Star, Cy/Jinx, Matt Logan/Bette Kane; (non-TT) Tenchi/Ryoko, Ataru/Lum, Marcus/Susan, Adric/Nyssa, Crichton/Aeryn, Xander/Buffy, Rick Hunter/Lisa Hayes, Paul/Saylah, Harper/Rommie, Keiichi/Belldandy, McGee/Abby
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dl316bh
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At the moment, it has all the signs of becoming another Jonah Hex or REBELS - critically acclaimed, but low selling.

Not exactly on those levels, I think. Most of the acclaim I've seen has been for the Metal Men backup. Quite a few of the people who tried the book and dropped it found it to be bland and/or not worth following. The rest were there mostly for the backup strip. Considering said strip is ending...

Yeah, Doom Patrol's probably not going to be around much longer; it's not even acclaimed anywhere on the level of Jonah Hex or R.E.B.E.L.S. (I think the latter is going to be allowed to be around a good while like Jonah Hex; DC's good about keeping critically acclaimed but low selling books around). Giffen will probably be allowed to do his general plan. But I wouldn't expect the Doom Patrol series to stick around. As you mentioned, even a Blackest Night crossover didn't bring in new readers (maybe I'm remembering wrong, but a couple others got a bit of a jolt from the crossover and retained some readers).

About the only way I can see Doom Patrol ever working again is under the Vertigo line. There the kind of numbers it pulls are acceptable and they're allowed to pretty much do what they want. As a part of the DCU though, I wouldn't be surprised if DC simply puts the concept out to pasture.
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DeTroyes
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dl316bh
Feb 17 2010, 06:50 PM
Not exactly on those levels, I think. Most of the acclaim I've seen has been for the Metal Men backup.

Depends. I'm seeing a lot of love for Giffen's Doom Patrol on CBR and the DCMB. ComicBloc seems split, but even there it does have its rabid supporters. I'd say at this point that it does have a dedicated, if small, core following.

And most of the reviews I've seen have been overwhelmingly positive.

I think it will survive at least to #12 under Giffen's hand. Beyond that, don't know. But unless they put someone like Grant Morrison or Geoff Johns on the title, I agree that putting Gar back on that team at this time would probably be a bad move for him.
Supporter of the following ships: (TT) BB/R, Rob/Star, Cy/Jinx, Matt Logan/Bette Kane; (non-TT) Tenchi/Ryoko, Ataru/Lum, Marcus/Susan, Adric/Nyssa, Crichton/Aeryn, Xander/Buffy, Rick Hunter/Lisa Hayes, Paul/Saylah, Harper/Rommie, Keiichi/Belldandy, McGee/Abby
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dl316bh
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I don't see Grant ever going back to the Doom Patrol. It and Animal Man seem to be projects firmly rooted in his past that he has no interest in returning to; I think he mentioned that he felt he didn't really have a story to tell with them anymore. Which I'm fine with, really; I'd rather have his crazy concepts on something new (or sticking with Batman). It's depressing to know Grant was originally going to be the writer of the book Dan Jurgans ended up helming though. I want him on a Titans book so bad.

After this I'll be surprised if even Geoff could get a Doom Patrol comic together; and honestly, I'd prefer he didn't, because I wasn't wowed by the OYL Doom Patrol. It felt like it was trying too hard. Besides, it would be such a step back for Gar. He's not taken seriously as it is.

I'd rather he be on Teen Titans, even if he's not given his due.

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And most of the reviews I've seen have been overwhelmingly positive.

It's been mixed from what I've seen. The Metal Men backup seem to be the highlight for the reviewers I've seen. Some places don't even review it anymore after finding the opening issues bland; which suggests they just stopped bothering with it.
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dl316bh
Feb 17 2010, 07:06 PM
I don't see Grant ever going back to the Doom Patrol.

Aww, blows. I mean I expected that he wouldn't return but hearing it from you kinda makes it definitive. I missed out on living transvestite streets.

Anyway, you think they probably dropped the whole "vying for lead position" sub-plot by now? Cause listening to more of that bull would REALLY make me want to drop the book. Not that I've been picking up, no real urge to jump into the comic shop lately.

In any case, I just want a reason to care again. Wonder Girl's a bitch, Bombshell is Ravager lite and less fun, Eddie's dead and the comic relief with him, even Jaime ain't selling me anymore. I just have no urge to want to buy a copy, and that's bad because it's the only book that has BB and Rae in it now so I should be grabbing each issue to support the two.

The last Titans book I picked up was one of the Blackest Night issues and that's only because it had Ravager being bad ass and fighting Zombies with her dysfunctional family. Then she told her dad off and went off in search of her mom. She was great... why'd she get booted off again?
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KingoftheBeasts
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We also know that Raven is suppose to be "transformed, not for the better" sometime in 2010


I've been wondering if Brother Blood may have a hand in this. Omens did show him attacking her, and so far all the omens from the titans issue other than this one and the one with Donna and Indigo have happened.

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In any case, I just want a reason to care again. Wonder Girl's a bitch, Bombshell is Ravager lite and less fun, Eddie's dead and the comic relief with him, even Jaime ain't selling me anymore. I just have no urge to want to buy a copy, and that's bad because it's the only book that has BB and Rae in it now so I should be grabbing each issue to support the two.


Same here. the only characters I care abou tin this book are doing bupkiss. BB, Rae and M'gann (who isn't as fun with out her interartions with Eddie and Rose) In fact, Inot not really sure any three of these will be around long. With Two more of the Young Justice members showing up (really hope they aren't joinging but we've now seen Conner prominent in three covers) I don't see much room for the characters that they aren't making use of.

But who knows, things could turn around. There wasn't much BB or Rae in the Last one, but that's because they had alot of expisition to do for Static. And understandably so seeing as how we hadn't heard much at all about his family and home town since he was rescued from the Terror Titans.

So, I'm not counting on eother ouctome at this point. I'm not exactly optimistic, but will hold off the doom calling until there is actual evidence. Simply a case of not counting un-hatced chickens.
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Plissken
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Well my big fear now is that its possible both Beast Boy and Raven are going to get booted into limbo. I felt that was coming for Raven--at the very least, I felt she was going to be incapacitated until this next event in 2011. I think its obvious she's going to be the team's fall girl for that event, seeing as she's really the only mystic who's a member.

I didn't think Gar would be kicked into limbo, but now I'm not certain--it did seem like they were setting him up to be leader, and then suddenly pulled back. I think the reason could be that they're about to have him storm off after Raven or something.

I'm just getting the impression neither of them are going to have a place on teams in the near future.
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dl316bh
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Feb 18 2010, 02:32 PM
BB, Rae and M'gann (who isn't as fun with out her interartions with Eddie and Rose) In fact, Inot not really sure any three of these will be around long.

I desperately don't want to be rude, because we're friends and all, but quit that, would you please? They went to the trouble of putting Gar and Rae there to begin with. They have no place else to go. They're not going to just dump them into limbo when it looks like the title is moving towards the pre-OYL roster, which they were a part of.

Has everyone forgotten pre-OYL? News flash guys; Gar and Rae weren't used a lot there either and Geoff Johns was writing the title. Their budding friendship-turned-romance was a subplot which was lucky to get a couple of pages per arc. Most of the larger plots dealt with Superboy, Robin, Cassie and Bart. Beast Boy didn't do much in the opening arc, he had a role in Family Lost, but it was with Raven and half the plot, he had his "Beast Boys and Girls" arc which was a rejigging of his origin which we already know, did next to nothing in "The Future is Now", the Dr. Light fight and The Insiders, only to have a role in maybe three issues as leader before he and Raven were out of the title. They weren't ever used any more pre-OYL than they are now; in fact, this is a quicker turnaround for a plot involving either of them than I expected.

I am sick to death of the pessimism; it does no one any favors and does little more than end up making everyone judge things harsher than they should. So lets all just relax already and take the old "wait and see" policy. The state of the Titans is frustrating, but becoming cynical about it does no one any good; I'm starting to find myself frustrated more with my fellow fans than I am with the books themselves.
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Well, here's something to be optimistic about:

In wake of today's dramatic announcements about DC's new management (Dan Didio & Jim Lee are now the publishers; Geoff Johns is the "Chief Creative Officer"), from Rich Johnston, on Bleeding Cool:

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I have been hearing stories about DC editors very recently being told to increase the amount of work they are commissioning and speeding up the production process of work that’s on the way, with the stated aim of taking back market share in the direct market, against Marvel, a company that seems to grab more the direct market with fewer titles and with fewer employees. As a result, some people have been talking of an upcoming golden age at DC for new artists with a decent portfolio looking for work – reminiscent of the nineties boom. And we should start seeing evidence of this as soon as this summer.


http://www.bleedingcool.com/2010/02/18/tal...bout-dc-comics/

Yes, I know how you feel about Johnston, DL. But... this sort of feeds into some of the scuttlebutt I've been seeing today from DC people. To the effect that, this is only the beginning -- and that the first flexing of the new team's muscle will start very soon with DC going into something of a gambling mood by getting ready to launch a flurry of newer, less sure stuff. Things that perhaps might not have seen been green lit under the previous set-up.

Its still a long shot, but... If there ever was a chance for a Raven and Beast Boy title, or even solo's for either character... we may very well be entering an era where its possible.
Supporter of the following ships: (TT) BB/R, Rob/Star, Cy/Jinx, Matt Logan/Bette Kane; (non-TT) Tenchi/Ryoko, Ataru/Lum, Marcus/Susan, Adric/Nyssa, Crichton/Aeryn, Xander/Buffy, Rick Hunter/Lisa Hayes, Paul/Saylah, Harper/Rommie, Keiichi/Belldandy, McGee/Abby
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dl316bh
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Feb 18 2010, 07:49 PM
Yes, I know how you feel about Johnston, DL.

Just to be clear, I don't have a problem with Rich Johnston as a person, unlike quite a few of his haters seem to. From what I've seen of his posts and otherwise outside of LITG, he seems like an alright guy. I take more of an issue with his general credibility, though. He's wrong more often than he's right.

That said, this isn't really an outright rumor. What he's saying there makes sense. So I don't doubt this report.

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Its still a long shot, but... If there ever was a chance for a Raven and Beast Boy title, or even solo's for either character... we may very well be entering an era where its possible.

Just a shot in the dark here, since we're basically shooting the breeze on possibilities, but perhaps it would be a good idea to let them know we'd like to see this? GarxRae is pretty popular overall. If they did such a thing, it might do alright.

Or maybe that's a dumb idea. I dunno.
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GhettoMac
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dl316bh
Feb 18 2010, 06:59 PM
Just a shot in the dark here, since we're basically shooting the breeze on possibilities, but perhaps it would be a good idea to let them know we'd like to see this? GarxRae is pretty popular overall. If they did such a thing, it might do alright.

Or maybe that's a dumb idea. I dunno.

Wouldn't hurt to give them a shout out. Or at least let them know that what we're seeing and predicting on GarxRae is not really sailing.

If it's not them in limbo, then it's Raven trapped in a stone wall or bein "transformed, not for the better" that's not putting anyones mind at ease. Probably why everyones feelin a little bleak around here.
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