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Teen Titans #76; October 2009
Topic Started: Jul 18 2009, 04:38 PM (2,410 Views)
Plissken
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Oct 28 2009, 05:19 PM
Gosh, it's like Avatar all over again. *groans*

Ultimate Avatar State power, or the girl you love?

The leadership position of the Teen Titans, or the girl you love?

I'm torn. I can't help but think this will set up a wait before anything else happens, but I also can't help but feel that no guy, unless there was some HUGE reason like saving lives or something like that, would choose leadership and/or ultimate power over the person he loves the most in the world.

But maybe I'm a romantic sap.

Still, I do like that even though Gar got pummeled just there, he put his all out there to protect Raven.

Again, I don't think anything of it is a nail in the coffin, but its equally as annoying--more waiting.

Now hopefully its just waiting until Blackest Night is over and then its back to being on track. But its possible when things pick up in January, we have to build up to Raven adn Gar admitting their feelings to each other AGAIN.

To me that's been more aggravating than even getting Raven's perspective on the matter. I hate the waiting. So waiting until January--although I think progress will occur after the next arc, thus probably in March--is not a happy thought.
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DeTroyes
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Frankly, I don't see this as being an either/or situation for Gar. And certainly, a little on the side with one of the other team members certainly isn't new in the Teen Titans. Whats really at issue is Gar's ability to lead, and that still has to be determined. I don't think it will come down to Gar having to make a choice between Raven or the position, but I do think Gar has to really buckle under if he's going to convince them that he's their guy.
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SparkyX
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Wait, Gar is able to shapeshift into a 6-headed creature now? How is he able to think with 6 brains in there...

Oh, and Raven being Captain Obvious ("I live, and there is a monster among us!"). Not for the first time though.

Anyway, thanks for the scans, Pliss/DT.

As for the whole waiting game, it's getting old isn't it? It looks like DC is going to keep playing with us until we get tired of it, and then they'll either hook them up for good or pretend like it never happened.
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dl316bh
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DeTroyes
Oct 28 2009, 06:54 PM
And certainly, a little on the side with one of the other team members certainly isn't new in the Teen Titans.

Dick and Kory anyone? And Donna and Roy. And Kyle and Donna. Wonder Girl and Superboy. Wonder Girl and Robin (well, sorta). The list goes on.

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As for the whole waiting game, it's getting old isn't it?

Blackest Night isn't over yet. I suspect that's the holdup. That's why DC had Sean McKeever put the two on ice for the time being to begin with.
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Lizard-Man
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Ugh, Cassie can't stop being a bitch can she? Even when her Boyfriend's alive again.

Lady he figured out the monster's objective and got back in time to stop it. If he had stayed with you the monsters would've won. If he had made you all come with him the monsters would've swarmed the tower and they'd have won. Its called watching the flank, shouldn't an Amazon warrior know that?

Jaime, why are you being a dick? Has Cassie infected you with her bitchy additude? God such senseless drama.

As for Pil's concerns, I'd ask him to chill. I really don't think this is a major issue. Gar has to prove he's their guy, plain and simple. Thats gonna be difficult considering he's the old guy on the team by all considerations. Also, the whole "You were never the leader" thing, yeah someone needs to read 52. Obviously the writer didn't study that far back.

I'm not worried, this is more about Gar proving he can stay focus on the gameplan, considering he figured out the monster was after Raven that proves he can, however the young guns just haven't gotten it yet.
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KingoftheBeasts
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OK, I hate the writers who allow Beast Boy to trasnsform into non-natural animals. It expands his powers far too much and makes him near invincible. Being able to turn into only real animals was a great limit on his powers because even though he could acces flight, strench, speed, durability, and water breathing, for the most part he could only have one or two at the time. If he can amalgamate his animal parts then he could just create an ultimate animal form and never be anything else.

However, I'm the type who get upset when they have him turn into an amoeba (or use the abilities of one like with animal man spliting into multiple selves) because they aren't in the animal kingdom, but the amoebazoa kingdom (I know it sounds made up, but thats actually the name of the kingdom of life they belong to)

In Kingdom Come, where Beast Boy became Managerie he could only turn into mythological creatures, but that was fine as it still supplied a limit as he could no longer become real animals...

Also, it seems like his yellow eyes were in the whole issue... really not liking that. I hope the artist gets complaints and is forced to change it back. Because other than the yellow, I love how he draws Gar. His new hairy, clawed look makes me think of my favorite comic book character, Beast!

Also, I'm wondering if they are making Cassie extra bitchy (never thought she could be worse) so that she can leave and join Conner in Adventure comics? A guy can hope...
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Oct 28 2009, 10:59 PM
Also, I'm wondering if they are making Cassie extra bitchy (never thought she could be worse) so that she can leave and join Conner in Adventure comics?  A guy can hope...

I wish. Conner is supposed to rejoin the team in the relatively near future. Sadly, Wonder Girl will probably be sticking around.

Which sucks, because I'm frankly sick of her.

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OK, I hate the writers who allow Beast Boy to trasnsform into non-natural animals.

So... you hate Marv Wolfman too?

Gar transformed into an animal that didn't exist in the original Wolfman run.

Truthfully, I used to agree, but I'm over that now. He was a young kid when he first debuted with those powers. It makes sense that he should have gained a better mastery of his abilities over time. Plus the seed was always there.

On top of that, it doesn't overpower him or make him invincible. This is the DC Universe after all. Where a guy can move faster than a speeding bullet, be more powerful than a locomotive and leap the highest buildings in a single bound. Even with the upgrade there are still far more powerful heroes than he. So upgrade away, I say.
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GhettoMac
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Way I see it, they can mess with his powers however, because he still seems to carry out the same durability. Plus, Gar's true potential in his powers is yet to be said, as I recall back when he meet, his future self stated that,

"You could control the entire animal kingdom yet you ignore your greatest strength."

He's basically hinting that the present day Gar also has that said strength but is ashamed or unwilling to use it. He could be just starting to understanding those powers.

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Also, I'm wondering if they are making Cassie extra bitchy (never thought she could be worse) so that she can leave and join Conner in Adventure comics? A guy can hope...


*sigh* Honesty, just when she was startin to get my approval, she goes back to the b*tch side. Girl just can't make up her mind; first she doesn't wanna be leader, now she claims she's the leader, she approves of Gar's methods, now she's against it, she was over Conner, now she's back with him. Course, that's not wrong with any other relationship, but you know what I mean.
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KingoftheBeasts
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So... you hate Marv Wolfman too?


In the moments where he did that? Yes, definately. Like where he was chasing down Madame Rouge and he turned into that sea-serpent thing, hated it.

If he can only turn into natural animals than it means he has to think more about what animal has the advantage in each situation. If he can do chimeras than he can just pick from all the abilities he wants and it shows less straegy on his part. One of my favorite moment s from Geoffs run was when Gar was watching nature documentaries to learn about all the animals in his arsenal. Having the limitations means he has to play smarter, that's one of my favorite things about beast boy. No matter what he turns into, and what ever abilities it gives him, he's always completely mortal. The only times he gains some form of durability (like a rhino's thick bullet resistant hide, or a sea turtle's boney shell) he always has to sacrafice either stealth, agility or mobility. With this he could say "I'm going to turn into a lion for strenthg and agility, but make the skin as thick as an elephants so I don't have to worry about being shot, and what the hell lets add some condor wings so I can fly too. Oh and gills, need gills..."

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This is the DC Universe after all. Where a guy can move faster than a speeding bullet, be more powerful than a locomotive and leap the highest buildings in a single bound.


I guess I should clarify that I never liked the uber powerful superheros. My fav's always either have a select few powers, like Spider man and Beast, no powers like Bats and the Question, or one power with many of possibilities like our beloved BB.

Side note: Does the leaping entire buildings in a single bound thing even count anymore? I mean are we taking this on the honor system that Supes doesn't start flying at any point in this "bound"?
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dl316bh
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If he can only turn into natural animals than it means he has to think more about what animal has the advantage in each situation.

He still does. Mythological creatures aren't invincible. Same goes for transformations like the Wyldebeast. You're talking like he's suddenly invulnerable to bullets or there is some creature that's like a catch all "I'm invincible" powerup.

Relax bro. You're placing expectations on a hero who's been depicted as being able to do this - even if only under certain circumstances - for most of his existence. He's not suddenly Superman just because he can change into a mythological creature.

Besides that, when you think about it, changing into just natural animals is still a pretty uber powerful ability. ESPECIALLY if you know how to use it.

Also, Spider-Man is actually pretty powerful. The only reason he doesn't turn thugs into gooey red paste is because he pulls his punches.

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Side note: Does the leaping entire buildings in a single bound thing even count anymore? I mean are we taking this on the honor system that Supes doesn't start flying at any point in this "bound"?

He could only leap far originally. The flying thing didn't come until a while later. Hence "leap the tallest buildings in a single bound".
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KingoftheBeasts
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Relax bro. You're placing expectations on a hero who's been depicted as being able to do this - even if only under certain circumstances - for most of his existence. He's not suddenly Superman just because he can change into a mythological creature.


Well if were counting how his powers always worked... Lets not forget how originally, when he transformed, he took on the colors of the animal he was adapting, but his head remained human shaped and green. This aspect of his powers has long since been ignored and we all pretend it never happened. That's how I treat the non-real transformation. Like the Giant Taurantula he turned into in the recent Titans series. I guess my main point is that there are a million limitless shape-shifters, but BB was just as cool (if not cooler) with his limited version of morphing. It made him special.

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Besides that, when you think about it, changing into just natural animals is still a pretty uber powerful ability. ESPECIALLY if you know how to use it.


it is a good ability, but in each form he has certain weaknesses as well as what ever strength he changed into the animal for. Regardless of what form he took, there was always a niche that his opponent could take advantage of, and to compensate he would have to switch in and out of forms to protect himself. And it has been shown that quick changes tires him out, I'd say thats a really good weakness that makes him far more interesting to watch in a battle.

With this ability he could pick and choose to cancel out these weaknesses while reaping the benefits of the abilities he was looking for. No, he certainly is no super man, but a bullet-resistant octopus, or a flying leopard, or water breathing anaconda, or venomous camel makes him far more powerful than he ever was. And aside from the niegh-invulnerable characters like Supes, Marvel or Wonder woman, it could arguably make him one of the most powerful characters in the DC universe.
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dl316bh
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Different strokes then, because I really don't think it's a big deal.
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DeTroyes
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Oct 28 2009, 06:00 PM
As for the whole waiting game, it's getting old isn't it? It looks like DC is going to keep playing with us until we get tired of it, and then they'll either hook them up for good or pretend like it never happened.

The waiting game is annoying, but I'd still rather have this than the excruciatingly slow times we had in 2006-2007. At least we have a real, concrete story going.

****

Re: The limits of Gar's shapeshifting powers

Frankly, I think what we're looking at here is a classic case of "the limits are whatever the writer needs them to be".
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craZy
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Read throught the issue, excuse me while I shoot down my hopes for Gar earning a weeee bit of respect in this issue. *loads gun*

A dissapointing issue. I absolutely hated how bitchy Cassie was being. Ya know they can't completely hold it against Gar for going back for Raven. Had he not, the Wylde would've taken her or killed her or nom'd on her cloak the annoying way lil' kitties do or whatever it intended to do. And Megan was already out cold so she wouldn't have been able to wake Raven up.

I would actually like to see this build up to Gar proving his leadership, but not a situation where he has to give up Raven for the team! I'm thinking more of a moment where he saves the girl, saves the team, saves the day and ends off with an epic moment of a macho stance in front of the sunlight....or something like that.

Back to waiting again? Bluegh, we've gone through a lot, we can wait a lil' more....*loads gun again*

EDIT: Oh and I've always thought BB's ability to transform into other kinds of creature was kinda...cool. 'Course I want him to stick to animals but a multi-headed beast or whatever other kind of creature during the heat of some...heated battle, is cool.
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Plissken
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Oct 29 2009, 02:22 AM
The waiting game is annoying, but I'd still rather have this than the excruciatingly slow times we had in 2006-2007.  At least we have a real, concrete story going.

****

Re: The limits of Gar's shapeshifting powers

Frankly, I think what we're looking at here is a classic case of "the limits are whatever the writer needs them to be".

QFT

Writer may have just read shape-shifter and thought it was no holds barge on that respect.

Regardless of that, Gar still has several weaknesses inherent in his shifting--he's stuck in the color green, ruling out infiltrations in many ways; he cannot or simply will not take the form of any really rational being--we've never seen him become Martian or Kryptonian or Tamaranian, though its been suggested he's held himself back out of fear; he doesn't yet seem to be able to hold a partial transformation for a length of time--so you never see him just grow claws and fight like that, he seems to have to go all the way with it; he never seems to mix and match, so he doesn't become a flying shark or anything like that; finally, he can only become things that exist naturally as part of the world--you won't see him become some genetically engineered mutant or super being, because its not part of the natural order of the world.

So he still has limits to his ability, even when you bring in mythological or demonic entities, which as Debby said do exist as part of the DCU. Unicorns, minotaurs, and the like are part of the natural world in the DCU, which gets mixed with the mystical at times.




The way I look at Gar, based on his original incarnation and what Johns began to reassert later, is that he is a sort of bridge of evolution. Any naturally existing being that did exist, does exist, and ever will exist is open to Gar's abilities. Right now, at his power levels and age, he still requires some pre-existing knowledge of the being in order to become it. He needs something to focus his concentration on first, which is why he watches the nature programs, and why he needs to at least witness a being (like The Wyld) before he can take on the form.

Based on what his Animal Man future had said, Gar is also capable of evolving himself, of sort of moving along on humanity's evolutionary chain.

In the case of Animal Man himself, however, I think he did the opposite and devolved himself to become more animal-like--hence why he looked like the sasquatch in the future, he had gone back to that point in humanity's evolution when they're not quite animals yet not quite humans (missing link, in other words).




Thus, I think inherent in Gar's abilities is the potential to become one of the more powerful heroes in the DCU over time. That'll never happen within the main continuity itself, of course, but anytime they go to the future or in a futuristic else-worlds tale, that door is open for exploration. Had they not chosen to turn him into a tortured and self-loathing gargoyle creature in Kingdom Come, the other option would have been to turn him into a sort highly evolved being (like how Cyborg was liquid metal, the Flash existed almost outside of time and space, or Alan Scott could create permanent constructs).
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