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Spider-Man 3 Teaser
Topic Started: Jun 28 2006, 02:17 AM (754 Views)
SoniCalvin
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Wouldn't one think there would be different types of Goblin bombs?

We had a few that shot razor blades. I love razor blades. Mm, yes. *evil chuckle* *ahem*

We've got some non-lethal bombs that are big and explodey, yet leave people with very bad cuts and wounds, with the risk of blood loss, internal bleeding, and therefore leave you to die. So, they wouldn't be considered non-lethal bombs.

...Wait. What am I even talking about? *head explodes*

Yes. Yes, indeed, I see your point. The bombs are inconsistent when it comes to their power.
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dl316bh
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Actually, that's another thing that kinda bothered me. The razor bombs looked the same as the actual bombs. There should have been some distinction in looks, I think.

Either way, really, it's strange. What bothers me is you cannot tell the difference in anything other than the outcome. The radiu of the blast is the same. Rather small. But depending on the scene, it's power ranges from anything from frying half a face to incinerating an entire body. Meh.

On a random, unnecessary tangent, the Goblin bombs are actually called Pumpkin Bombs. They were always cool as hell in the comics. I just don't refer to them as such here because they don't really look the part anymore. They look too technical, so I call them Goblin bombs.

Random useless exposition over. =P
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SoniCalvin
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I too call them Goblin bombs, because they sure as hell don't have the green stem and the jack-o-lantern faces. XD

Suppose the Goblin (doesn't matter which one, from what I can gather, there were about five different Goblins in the comics) only wanted to injure someone. He throws a bomb, and he kills them, their bodies turning to ashes. "...Oops. Um... ...f*ck. I really need to learn to keep my bombs at the power level I want them at."
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dl316bh
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Well, technically, there have only been three true, major Goblins. Normon Osbourne as the original Green Goblin, Harry as the second Green Goblin and the original Hobgoblin, Roderick Kingsley.

There were several other Green Goblins and Hobgoblins. There were at least three other Green Goblins and four Hobgoblin's other then Kingsley. But they were all very minor and dissapeared after they were defeated. Because of how minor they were, I don't even consider them true Goblins. More like pretenders in the role.

In my eye's, there are only three. Normon, Harry and Roderick.

About the Pumpkin bombs, yeah, in the movie, they don't look the part. Like I said, it's why I call them Goblin bombs instead. They're orange, but that's where the resemblance ends. I was dissapointed in the overall Goblin look period. Look up Alex Ross's concept for the movie Goblin sometime. You want to talk about freaky as hell. It doesn't get much cooler then what he came up with.

That costume was also used in the movie Spider-Man game for the Playstation 2. If you activated the Alex Ross Spidey outfit, the Goblin would be in the Alex Ross Goblin uniform, which was an almost frighteningly awesome variation of the classic Goblin costume. I'm dissapointed it wasn't used in the movie. The one they did use looked like a Power Rangers villain reject.

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"...Oops. Um... ...f*ck. I really need to learn to keep my bombs at the power level I want them at."


"Damn it all to hell! I wanted 'injure', not 'incinerate'! I can't tell the razor bat bombs from the incinerators! I really need to label them..."
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SoniCalvin
May 7 2007, 02:32 PM
Wouldn't one think there would be different types of Goblin bombs?

We had a few that shot razor blades. I love razor blades. Mm, yes. *evil chuckle* *ahem*

We've got some non-lethal bombs that are big and explodey, yet leave people with very bad cuts and wounds, with the risk of blood loss, internal bleeding, and therefore leave you to die. So, they wouldn't be considered non-lethal bombs.

...Wait. What am I even talking about? *head explodes*

Yes. Yes, indeed, I see your point. The bombs are inconsistent when it comes to their power.

This colud help

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bounding_mine




And we refuse to see that people overseas suffer just like we
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SoniCalvin
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Yes, I saw Alex Ross's design for the Green Goblin in the PC and console versions of the first Spider-Man movie game. First time I saw it... I never got any sleep that night. He gave me the jibblies.
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dl316bh
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For those who have no idea what we're talking about in regards to the Alex Ross concept of the movie Goblin, here's a look:

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You cannot tell me that is not awesome. That would have pwned the movie Goblin we got ten times over. I mean, just look at that. The Goblin would have looked like a real menace had they used Alex's design.

I'll take Alex Ross for the win please.
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SoniCalvin
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EDIT: So again, I stupidly copied a movie review off of Lothar Hex, and I wanna sincerely apologize for lying to everyone, thinking that this is my review. I know I'm never copying off of anyone again. So, I'm gonna give credit to Lothar for writing his thoughts on this.

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The Good
I liked the film up until a certain point, but more on that later. Sure, there were some silly moments like Peter disco dancing down the street, and a lot of people were moaning about that and how out of character and off the wall that was. But to me, that was the entire point of the scene. It's Peter changing because of his contact with the symbiote, and scenes like this show how his attitude is changing for the worse.

I also liked Thomas Hayden Church's portrayal of the Sandman, and it's nice to see a villain who isn't a complete c*nt, or committing crimes to feed his ego. He's stealing money to try and save his daughter, and he's regretful of his actions throughout the entire film, but is constantly deciding to do the wrong things for the right reasons.

Harry coming to terms with his father's legacy is also very well done, but leaves something to be desired mostly because the filmmakers have to rush it.

I also liked Venom (not Eddie Brock, but more on that soon), and he was portrayed pretty much as I expected. He's the opposite of Spider-Man. Evil, vicious, totally without morals, and incredibly dangerous. My one regret is that he didn't say, "I'm going to eat your brains!", or something to that effect.

The Bad
While I liked the Sandman, can somebody PLEASE explain to me why every single villain Peter faces has to be linked to him somehow in these films? Okay, Green Goblin was a given, since he's always been his best friend's father, and you can't exactly have Venom without him being connected to Spidey. I could swallow the tenuous link between Peter and Doctor Octopus, but did we really have to have Sandman as Uncle Ben's actual killer? He couldn't just be some guy, could he? The only reason he's in the film is so Peter can angst about it and eventually forgive him for killing Uncle Ben (it was an accident and Sandman regrets it)... but this just bloody destroys the reason Peter became Spider-Man in the first place. Oh sure, "great power, great responsibility" and all that, but the reason Peter became Spider-Man is because he's wracked with guilt over his actions that led to Ben's death. If he forgives the Sandman, he's not wracked with guilt and doesn't have a f*cking reason to be Spider-Man anymore!

Angst, angst, angst, relationship problems, and more angst.

Three stories for one movie is far too many. I think number 3 would have benefitted more from focusing on either the Venom story, or the whole Sandman/New Goblin thing, leaving the one left over for the fourth movie. Everything seems so rushed in this, they have to have Harry attack Pete, lose his memory, get it back, go angsty, and then forgive Pete once he learns the truth, alongside the whole Venom and Sandman thing. Despite the movie being three hours long, there simply isn't enough time to devote enough screen time to each story and have them feel truly fleshed out.

And why the **** does Peter show his bloody face to EVERYONE in this movie again? Didn't he get enough of that in number 2?

The Ugly

Eddie Brock gets completely shafted in this movie. He's on screen a total of fifteen to twenty minutes before he becomes Venom, and quite frankly, he has very little in the way of motivation to want to kill Spider-Man. Peter reveals that Brock's photo is a sham, and Brock says because of Peter, he'll never work for a newspaper again. Then a little later, he sees Peter walking with his girlfriend, Gwen Stacy. However, I don't think Gwen knew they were dating, so, meh. This is ALL the motivation he gets for wanting Peter Parker dead, going so far to actually pray for God to kill him. Seriously, what the f*cking hell? Perhaps if we got one or two more scenes showing how utterly down the toilet Brock's life had gone, such as him getting kicked out of his apartment due to no money, or not being able to get hired, it would've made more sense. But no, Peter loses him his job, and suddenly he wants God to kill him. It just doesn't add up, and quite frankly, it doesn't factor in that Brock may be unstable before it happens, because we get no indication of that either.

The last half-hour of the film completely and utterly fell apart. They try and bring three separate stories together in one climactic battle, and it just feels so utterly rushed, that it comes off wrong. Because they had to tie up three stories, none of them really get a satisfactory conclusion at all before they have Peter and Mary Jane reconcile, and the credits roll. I actually left the theatre disappointed at how unsatisfying and rushed the ending was. I think they just decided to end the movie early, because the audience would be busting for a p*ss at the 3 hour mark (not me, I went during the Harry and MJ kiss scene. Since it was so predictable, I knew what would happen).

Oh, and why exactly did Sandman want Spider-Man dead? He stopped him from taking some money sure, but he could've easily gotten more. So, it really doesn't add up to why he would join up with Venom to kill Spider-Man.

But overall, I enjoyed the movie. The action scenes were, as always, great fun, but I feel it is the weakest movie in the franchise. I just wonder what they're gonna do with number 4, because I'm sure as hell sick of MJ and Peter having angsty relationship problems already. Look, whenever you two have problems, either have sex, or kill each other. Either scenario would be more entertaining than watching MJ cry for the 50th time.


Problem aside, I did think it was pretty good, but I agree. Peter and MJ having angsty problems with their relationship is getting rather tiresome. And Eddie Brock was completely shafted, and Venom didn't get enough screen time. No he didn't.

This makes me sad.
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dl316bh
May 7 2007, 01:47 PM
For those who have no idea what we're talking about in regards to the Alex Ross concept of the movie Goblin, here's a look:

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You cannot tell me that is not awesome. That would have pwned the movie Goblin we got ten times over. I mean, just look at that. The Goblin would have looked like a real menace had they used Alex's design.

I'll take Alex Ross for the win please.

No 'fence, but as soon as I looked at that picture without reading your post, I thought it was Dr. Doom off of the fantastic five.
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dl316bh
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Fantastic Four you mean. And Doctor Doom? You're joking right? Dude wears a steel mask and a skirt. He wishes he had the kind of style that Goblin suit embody's. XP

I understand where you are coming from Soni on Venom. It's actually a pretty strange thing overall. It was rather faithful overall, but one tiny detail changes how much it meant.

Eddie was not a big shot editor writer in this one. Not to mention it's entirely Eddie's fault, whereas in the comics, yes, Spider-Man is indeed indirectly responsible for what happened to Eddie.

The change is that in the movie, Eddie is an arrogant prick. I was able to stomach this. If you remember the nineties series, he did the same thing. Plus, one has to also remember that the movie Eddie is an amalgation of the 616 and Utlimate Eddie. The Ultimate Eddie Brock was far more vindictive. Far more of an arrogant, vendetta holding prick. The origins of Venom and Eddie's career interests were of the 616 Eddie Brock, but his attitude was decidedly Ultimate variation. Some people tend to forget Eddie was supposed to be a bit of an amalgation of the two from the get go.

But back to what I was saying. Yes, the whole thing packs far less punch then the original comic's way of doing things. In the comics, Eddie made a mistake, writing an editorial on the Sin Eater murderer, which gained him a lot of press and acclaim. But the confessor turned out to be a fraud, as Spidey caught the real deal. Because of one mistake, Eddie's career, livelyhood, marriage and life was pretty much destroyed. He hated Spider-Man, but originally didn't hold the whole killing portion of it. He was actually in the church asking for gods forgiveness for his serious contemplation of suicide, and the symbiote engulfed him, combining the hatred to form Venom, who was far less concerned with the ethics of killing.

As you can see, it worked far better in the comics. Like you pointed out Soni, it did pretty much come off like a big hissy fit on Eddie's part in the movie, and it didn't seem so much a part of the character as it did in the Ultimate universe. It just came off as kinda stupid. But I though Topher did a hell of a job with the cocky, arrogant, vindictive Eddie Brock. Was it a hundred percent true to the original comics? Hell no, but I honestly didn't expect it to be.

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If he forgives the Sandman, he's not wracked with guilt and doesn't have a f*cking reason to be Spider-Man anymore!


Well, let's be fair here. It still works without his Uncles death. In the end, he still could have prevented his Uncles death, as Sandman's partner was what triggered the gunshot that killed Uncle Ben.

And it's not really about avenging his Uncle or all that anymore. It never truely was. Yeah, the guilt and all that played a part in it, But Peter honestly does believe now that with great power comes great responsibility, and that he cannot just ditch the people of the city, guilt or not. Because, let's be fair. While he gets mention every now and again, Uncle Ben has not been a decided factor in Peter's reasons for being Spider-Man in the comics for years, and there's still no reason in the movies either to assume he was the entire reason. He has a reason to be Spidey. He has the power. It's his job. The city needs him. He learned that in the second movie. Not to mention he's got more support by the tiem of the third movie as well.

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While I liked the Sandman, can somebody PLEASE explain to me why every single villain Peter faces has to be linked to him somehow in these films?


This, I was skeptical right from the start about, being truthful.

A lot of villains have direct connections to Spidey and consequences, in one way or another. Doc Ock did, Venom, Green Goblin, Green Goblin 2, Mysterio. But of all his villains, Sandman was one of the few that wasn't directly linked to Peter. While it worked all right in the end, having Sandman as Uncle Ben's actual killer, I immediatly noticed the same thing as well. The movies pretty deliberately connect all the villains to Spidey.

Oh, and by the way. Just to get it out of the way, Sandman not being a terrible person in this movie is not out of character. It's not horribly well known, considering he's not a high profile villains, but Sandman has always been a bit of a decent guy at heart, despite his career choice. He even gave a go at being a superhero, working alongside the Avengers, and if I remember correctly, actually being a reserve member for a time.

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Oh, and why exactly did Sandman want Spider-Man dead? He stopped him from taking some money sure, but he could've easily gotten more.


Don't forget to factor in the fact that Spidey was quite clearly trying to kill Sandman. There was no mistaking it. Quite frankly, I'd be a little pissed myself and want some revenge if some dude came out of nowhere and tried to kill me.

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I just wonder what they're gonna do with number 4, because I'm sure as hell sick of MJ and Peter having angsty relationship problems already.


Being blatently obvious, I'm not a horribly big fan of the relationship, especially not in the movies.

The only real reason I want the marriage in the comics not to break up is because it's one of the last guard. Just about every other comic book relationship has broken apart at the seams, but this one has stood twenty some odd years. Otherwise, I wouldn't really care as much.

Mary Jane's alright, but being honest, I like Black Cat with Pete a hell of a lot better then the red head model.
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Yeah, Venom did become the favoured Anti-Hero of the Marvel universe. Most of the more popular villians are the ones not completely evil... just messed up a bit.

I'll admit though, Spidey probably caused a few indirect problems to poor old Brock's life but there are a few things he did that were overzealous. I mean, he blamed Spider-Man for just doing his job and capturing the real bad guy. Spidey didn't mean to get Brock fired you know, it was just him doing his job.

You'll get one final taste of Eddie Brock as Venom soon enough Dl. Theres gonna be a comic coming up called "The Last Temptation of Eddie Brock" where he is in the same hospital as Aunt May and is shown in his Venom outfit apparently getting ready to kill her. I doubt he'll go through with it though, doesn't seem like Eddie to do that.

All in all though, I like Venom as a character. He's pretty cool and I always found him more interesting then Carnage. Venom always had motives and was just trying to do good at heart... albeit the wrong way. Carnage... he kills people... thats it. Every other Villian I know of has better motives then 'I like killing people' then Carnage. Joker for instance is motivated by his obsession to kill Batman as well as his other plans that just seem to be there because he can do it. Carnage was jsut happy going around murdering people for no reason other then he felt like it, least Joker has some MO when he's commiting murder... no matter how weird it is.

So yeah, I like Venom better then Carnage. But seeing as how friggin annoying the debate between Carnage vs Venom was when I thought about making a tournament for villians I just had them team up rather then suffer the fanboy debacle of sorting out who would win a fight between Carnage and Venom. Too many fans for either side really.

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The only real reason I want the marriage in the comics not to break up is because it's one of the last guard. Just about every other comic book relationship has broken apart at the seams, but this one has stood twenty some odd years. Otherwise, I wouldn't really care as much.

Mary Jane's alright, but being honest, I like Black Cat with Pete a hell of a lot better then the red head model.


Tell me if I'm following this properly here. You don't really like the MJ/Spidey couple because its angsty and obvious, but you want them to stay together married because they've managed to do so where other hero weddings haven't. Fair enough for me.

Just a question, if you like Black Cat/Spidey better why didn't you just admit you were sort of a double shipper before? That way, I could've said I was entertaining the idea of a Spidey/Black Cat relationship for years without worrying about inciting some form of rant from you! Ever since the Animated series of the 90's I wanted to see where they would eventually end up, never panned out in the cartoon though. Same with the comics, they totally screwed up that Black Cat and Spidey comic mini-series when they changed it from Romantic comedy to 'Lets talk about Rape' I mean... its an awkward transition people.

XD

Its all good DL, next time I'll try to be more open with what ships I like. That way I can avoid worrying about inciting a rant. Your rants are fun to read though.
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dl316bh
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I still get the distinct feeling that the particular storyline you refer to is going to end with Eddie back as Venom for good. I mean, for him to even have the suit, it would have to have abandoned Gargen and gone back to it's old host.

Personally, I hope it goes that way. Scorpion is cool and all, but he's not Venom. Venom is the result of the joining of Eddie Brock and the symbite. Those two personalities joining to form the one entity. Angelo Fortuna was not Venom, though he took that name. Scorpion is not Venom. There can be only one. Eddie Brock. Eddie and the symbiote are Venom. No one else. And the others should be reffered to differently to reflect as such.

Besides, Scorpio-Venom hasn't exactly done anything interesting since he actually got the symbiote. I'd rather he just went back to being Scorpion, or got a symbiote spawn or something.

And yes, I know it wasn't Spidey's fault. Brock screwed up. He'll even freely admit that. But it didn't feel like a complete and total hissy fit in the 616 comics. In a way, he had to blame someone, and while he placed some of the blame on his own shoulders, he placed the rest on Spidey instead of where it belonged. On no one. It was a screw up and the bad consequences of Spidey just doing his job.

If I recall correctly, Eddie even came to terms with that truth much later.

Carnage... well, I told you guys what I think of him. Carnage is a decent character to see in short bursts. He's not exactly a horribly deep character, so really, they could have ended the whole thing with him after Maximum Carnage, which was, apparently along with his origin arc, the best arc with Carnage, and been none the worse for the wear. But I don't mind him. He's alright for the occasional cool villain smackdown and at least he's not overused.

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Tell me if I'm following this properly here. You don't really like the MJ/Spidey couple because its angsty and obvious, but you want them to stay together married because they've managed to do so where other hero weddings haven't. Fair enough for me.


Yeah. You hit the nail on the head. Not to mention there has always been an element of superficiality about her. She was a party girl at heart, and while there did end up bring more to her then that, she can still be just a superficial girl. Even in the movies. Plus, let's face it. She's added very little to the whole thing. When you really look at it, if you removed MJ from a lot of the story's, all you'd lose is some pointless thoughts about how much Peter loved her or maybe a funny moment or two.

It hasn't exactly done anything with him married to her that couldn't have been done with him as a bachelor, that much I will agree with Joe Quesada on.

Honestly, you're right. I'm just pulling for the relationship for the sole fact that it's one of the last. Comic relationships have a terrible habit of breaking up, which is ridiculous, as not every goddamn relationship is going to end terribly liek in comic relationships. But other then that, I'm not horribly concerned with it.

I never exactly admitted it because the subject never really came up. I don't actually recall us speaking on the Black Cat at all before I brought this up, so I never particularly thought to mention I liked the pairing. Reading the old comics, it was far more dynamic then Peter/MJ.

And let me be honest LM. I like to pretend the last two issues of "The Evil That Men Do" were never finished.

And I'm glad my rants are fun. It's good to know they serve a point other then just exposition, debate or clarification for someone. XD

I kinda like throwing around my knowledge when I've got it. ^^;;;
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They had a specially themed Halloween night at Universal's Island's of Adventure that had something to do with Carnage actually.

Basically it was a 'What if?' scenario of Maximum Carnage where he had killed all the heroes who went after him and now his henchmen and crazed fellow badguys were terrorizing the streets. They had a haunted house called "Maximum Carnage" even. Universal knows how to put on a Halloween party though, I've seen their sites for the events... damn do I wish I could go down to Florida for one of them just once.

I'd put up a video of what the thing was like if I could find one.

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I never exactly admitted it because the subject never really came up.


Okay, I'll give you that. Next time I'll ask more questions concerning ships.

For me, Felicia always had this sex appeal about her that made me like the relationship just a bit more. During the Civil War arc it was hinted she may still have an attraction for him.

If the symbiote returns to Brock for good it would be neat to see him in action. I'll wait till then.
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Another little thing. While I understand that the Spider-Man 3 game is slightly different than the movie, the Kingpin that appeared in the Daredevil movie was African-American. Here, in the game, he's his regular white self again. ... Correct me if I'm wrong, but if all of the Marvel characters live in the same universe, then shouldn't the Kingpin stay black in the Marvel movie canon?
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The games aren't synonomus with the movies. There's some scattered continuity in the second movie game that suggests the first one happened in it's continuity, but in general they are different from the movies themselves. As far as I've heard, Venom doesn't even "die" in the same way as the movie in the game.

But on another matter, we don't have any real proof that the Marvel superhero movies take place in the same universe anyways. We've all just assumed they do, but we have no actual proof.

Speaking of Kingpin, I must say this right out. If it weren't for the fact that Micheal Clarke Duncan pulled the mannerisms of the Kingpin off to a tee, I'd be kinda annoyed that they changed him to a black guy. Nothing against black people, you understand. It's just that it's like having Halle Berry as friggin Catwoman. There's no real excuse to be changing the ethnicity (especially, in Berry's case, to one of a terrible actress).

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If the symbiote returns to Brock for good it would be neat to see him in action.


It would be great to have the real deal back. Seriously, nothing has happened that made taking him out of the suit even worth it anyways. Just get the original back in the suit and do something new with him, I say. It's not that hard.
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