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Evil side in LotR
Topic Started: Nov 10 2005, 08:16 PM (224 Views)
Lord Sunnycool
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I just thought about how brilliant a job Tolkien did with making Middle Eath's evil side. Sauron as its leader. Binding all his power in a token of greed - in a ring! How he has the legions of orcs, twisted Elves...ironically. How Tolkien created Mordor to be Evil and how Saruman turned against The Good site.

How Harad and Rhûn and even Moria aid Mordor and Isengard in such a brilliant, unexpected and thrilling way!

I just compared to other fantasy stories, that are more conventional, and I really like way Middle-Earth shows "evil".....

It's a bit wierd topic, but what do you think? Do you agree with me or is Evil in LotR not that original?
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Lathaon
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Well, I dunno... What was there before Tolkien's stuff? I don't know so how can I tell if it is original? But it is good, anyway!
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Rayrn
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I think the main problem with that is that what many people take to be 'normal' is actually based round tolkien. He changed the norm and made it what is is today. Some books that i can think of which i can draw links to his work are:

David eddings - Belgariad and Malloreans - Torak - Sounds a lot like morgorth, looks like him and is a god...

Robert Jordan - Wheel of time - Again an overall godlike leader, his minions on earth (the forsaken ie nazgul)...

I could think of more but the point is that tolkien set a new norm and people have followed and expanded upon that.
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The Lord Castoden
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A quick correction, Sunny, but although Tolkein said Orcs were twisted Elves in the Silmarillion, he decided later in his life that they were in fact twisted men. Just one of the things Tolkein changed in his life...like how many Balrogs were there really? :blink: An army or just 7? The debate continues!
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Lachlan
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There was alot of balrogs, alot were destroyed in the 1st age. Orcs are courrupted elves, it states so.
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The Lord Castoden
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If you read the things that Tolkein said later in his life, he changed the statement and said that he did not think that Orcs were corrupted Elves but corrupted Men. He also switched back and forth during his life on whether or not there were only 7 or an army of Balrogs, eventually settling on 7.
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Lachlan
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But not all the Balrogs were destroyed, i believe that there was more, i don't think he settled on a figure. The remaining Balrogs went into deep places of middle earth.
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The Lord Castoden
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No, he said there were 7, and I'm pretty sure the only one that survived was the one in Moria.
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Berethor
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You can look in FOTR for yourself, he said that the one in Moria was the last of the Balrogs and one of the lesser ones, not necessarily a hero by any means.

I believe, according to my silmarillion, that there were more than 40 balrogs at one point, though many were destroyed even before Morgoth was overthrown. I know that alot died during the Siege of Gondolin for sure, because just one captain of Gondolin, Haldir, managed to slay a Balrog single handed. Imagine how many captains there were in Gondolin! What a fight. ;)

Rudder, the number varies, I've looked in several Silmarillions and I've seen 43, 7, one even said an army...
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The Lord Castoden
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Yes, Derek, I know! However, the last thing that Tolkein said on Balrogs before he died, in his letters, was that he decided that there were only 7 Balrogs, and that the one in Moria was one of them.
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Lachlan
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lol, there is lesser varients of Balrogs, alot probably wouldn't compare to a fully grown dragon like Smaug.
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Alex
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I like the Evil in LOTR - because the Evil was basically good in the beginning.
chadden, Oct 15 2008
12:16 PM
HIC, I demand that you bludgeon yourself with a rock until your mental status returns to the level of a rapist who calls back to apologise! Your use of elaborate language and words is making me uneasy. Although, I am somewhat relieved to see that your punctuation remains shit-based.
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Lord Sunnycool
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Rayrn
Nov 10 2005, 08:01 PM
I think the main problem with that is that what many people take to be 'normal' is actually based round tolkien. He changed the norm and made it what is is today. Some books that i can think of which i can draw links to his work are:

David eddings - Belgariad and Malloreans - Torak - Sounds a lot like morgorth, looks like him and is a god...

Robert Jordan - Wheel of time - Again an overall godlike leader, his minions on earth (the forsaken ie nazgul)...

I could think of more but the point is that tolkien set a new norm and people have followed and expanded upon that.

I agree. LotR in general created a new class, or say standard for Fantasy stories :)
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Thendil the Great
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are the orcs twisted elves?? didnt know that? i thought they were just bad payed actors screaming and spitting, while trying to kill.. huh..
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Lord Sunnycool
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lol - also that :lol:

But they are...I think it is not only in LotR Orcs are twisted elves.....maybe in Azeroth too?
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Alex
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Thendil the Great
Nov 14 2005, 05:39 PM
are the orcs twisted elves?? didnt know that? i thought they were just bad payed actors screaming and spitting, while trying to kill.. huh..

Yes they are. But it is believed some may of been Men as well.
chadden, Oct 15 2008
12:16 PM
HIC, I demand that you bludgeon yourself with a rock until your mental status returns to the level of a rapist who calls back to apologise! Your use of elaborate language and words is making me uneasy. Although, I am somewhat relieved to see that your punctuation remains shit-based.
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