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Rough Draft for Map; World Map rough draft steam punk
Topic Started: Apr 14 2011, 08:12 PM (511 Views)
Drake2
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The Raj
Apr 17 2011, 07:51 AM


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I also would like to know about populations. I mean, I could probably find out the RL population of India in the 19th Century because of the British introduced Indian Census, but finding the population of European Russia or Siberia may be difficult.

I found a historical list of Russia's population in less than 5 minutes, so for most nations, it shouldn't be too hard (especially as any nations under imperial rule would most likely have had some form of census). I was also planning on basing it off of the population around 1900-1910 because of our steam engine-driven technology increase to about the level of WWI.


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I have no problem in using NS economys (But then, mine is "All-Consuming" with a military budget of 5 trillion USD, when the RL US is about 600 billion, so why would I?).

That the problem, any new players to NS will be pretty screwed in a world full of economies like that.


Quote:
 
On the one hand, I pretty much have what I want in terms of starting territory (although I wouldn't mind Afghanistan and Burma) so I don't have an issue with the 3 regions only rule. However, It does seem strange that the Russian Empire is so reduced in size, and so I think perhaps some sort of more flexible system would be better. I mean, I certainly don't want some sort of massive Russia that can charge about Asia destroying everything (obviously), but perhaps a slightly larger version would be better.

I don't want to be able to steamroll over everybody else either. What I do want is to have a realistically large empire that has some power on the world stage instead of being limited to North-Eastern Europe.
By order of Tsar Maksimilian Romanov; By the Grace of God, Emperor and Autocrat of All the Russias.
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The Raj
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Drake2
Apr 17 2011, 09:34 AM
The Raj
Apr 17 2011, 07:51 AM


Quote:
 

I also would like to know about populations. I mean, I could probably find out the RL population of India in the 19th Century because of the British introduced Indian Census, but finding the population of European Russia or Siberia may be difficult.

I found a historical list of Russia's population in less than 5 minutes, so for most nations, it shouldn't be too hard (especially as any nations under imperial rule would most likely have had some form of census). I was also planning on basing it off of the population around 1900-1910 because of our steam engine-driven technology increase to about the level of WWI.



Well, I'd be fine with that, but what I meant was for new fictional countries, like Chroshak. Russia's population would be easy enough to find, sure, but what about the population of those three regions which you actually claim at the moment, or if a nation claimed (for example) one region in France, one in North-West Italy, and one in Northern Spain? It would make using RL populations a lot harder.

However, as I say, I'd be able to do it fine, since I alone have claimed (almost) all of a RL nation, the British Raj, so RL census population will be easy for me, I was just considering some of the strange nations which may form, and those that will only be made up of certain regions.

I got 250 Million for British India in 1900, and 132 Million for the Russian Empire in 1900, but that was all of Russia. Do you know how many actually lived in your claimed regions?

Because using the RL populations, Chroshak is going to be a big, empty nation with an economy that is largely non-existant, and no means of power projection with which to expand.
Edited by The Raj, Apr 17 2011, 11:12 AM.
God Save His Imperial Majesty, by the Grace of God, the White Maharajah, King-Emperor Victor-Ji IV of the Kingdom of Bengal and the Indian Empire, Khan-Sahib of the Dominon of the Holy Raj, Kaiser-I-Hind.

"It is only when you get to see and realise what India really is - that she is the strength and greatness of England - it is only then that you feel that every nerve a man may strain, every energy he may put forward cannot be devoted to a nobler purpose than keeping tight the cords that hold India to Ourselves" - Lord Curzon, Viceroy of India, 1898-1905.
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Drake2
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Well, I'd be fine with that, but what I meant was for new fictional countries, like Chroshak. Russia's population would be easy enough to find, sure, but what about the population of those three regions which you actually claim at the moment, or if a nation claimed (for example) one region in France, one in North-West Italy, and one in Northern Spain? It would make using RL populations a lot harder.

However, as I say, I'd be able to do it fine, since I alone have claimed (almost) all of a RL nation, the British Raj, so RL census population will be easy for me, I was just considering some of the strange nations which may form, and those that will only be made up of certain regions.

Most census reports have the results broken down by region, the Russian Imperial Census (Link here) that I'm going to be basing things off of has a breakdown. And if your nation combines several former empires, then you should be able to combine regional censuses.

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Do you know how many actually lived in your claimed regions?

See above.

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Because using the RL populations, Chroshak is going to be a big, empty nation with an economy that is largely non-existant, and no means of power projection with which to expand.

Yeah, for some nations, we'll have to do some making up of numbers, but its still better than NS population (unless your NS population is reasonable, which probably means that you've been playing for less than a month.)


Edited by Drake2, Apr 17 2011, 01:59 PM.
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The Raj
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Well, in that case, I am happy to use the RL population of British India in 1900. As for the proceedure for claiming land, working out the results of wars, and economic strength, I still feel that we need new systems for these issues.
God Save His Imperial Majesty, by the Grace of God, the White Maharajah, King-Emperor Victor-Ji IV of the Kingdom of Bengal and the Indian Empire, Khan-Sahib of the Dominon of the Holy Raj, Kaiser-I-Hind.

"It is only when you get to see and realise what India really is - that she is the strength and greatness of England - it is only then that you feel that every nerve a man may strain, every energy he may put forward cannot be devoted to a nobler purpose than keeping tight the cords that hold India to Ourselves" - Lord Curzon, Viceroy of India, 1898-1905.
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Zraeln
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Um...so why did we not...i dunno, take the massive well developed and nicely divided map they had on the other steampunk forum? I'm playing with my territory from that map, or I'm not playing.
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The Raj
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Apr 18 2011, 04:28 PM
Um...so why did we not...i dunno, take the massive well developed and nicely divided map they had on the other steampunk forum? I'm playing with my territory from that map, or I'm not playing.
Well, when you attempt to access that old forum, I get a message saying that it doesn't exist... but I wouldn't mind, so long as I get India still...
God Save His Imperial Majesty, by the Grace of God, the White Maharajah, King-Emperor Victor-Ji IV of the Kingdom of Bengal and the Indian Empire, Khan-Sahib of the Dominon of the Holy Raj, Kaiser-I-Hind.

"It is only when you get to see and realise what India really is - that she is the strength and greatness of England - it is only then that you feel that every nerve a man may strain, every energy he may put forward cannot be devoted to a nobler purpose than keeping tight the cords that hold India to Ourselves" - Lord Curzon, Viceroy of India, 1898-1905.
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Chroshak
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Well, if you guys want, Chroshak can be a weak fringe state. I don't really care. I think the Nation states population should be cut, while the Social and Economic factors should be kept. The political factors should be decided by the people. The Populations should be fitting. Chroshak, In my mind is a center for trade. If you guys don't like that or think that's to OP, I'll change it. The reason Chroshak seems appealing to me is with Steampunk technology, I can easily make the land in Chroshak highly habital and industrious. I don't think it would be an Industrious Epicenter, because Zraeln's economy is roughly I'd say 12% bigger then mine, but it could be influenced. Also Kuwait States and The Royal Army and others would be tremendously powerful and industrious for their small country sizes. I mean they have incredible GDP's that in comparison by Capita to me and Zralens, Dwarf us. They are a highly productive people which would help them maintain dominance. Populations are also a negative as with positive if you guys look at the factors of disease and Revolution ect...
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Templaric Codex:23:7: If one isn't certain, He must question.
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If you helm your sword and use your tongue, peace and tranquility can be arranged.


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Drake2
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Well, if you guys want, Chroshak can be a weak fringe state.

I don't necessarily want this, although if you want to try playing with a Chroshak like that, I won't argue, how you handle your nation should be up to you.

Quote:
 
I think the Nation states population should be cut, while the Social and Economic factors should be kept. The political factors should be decided by the people.

I agree with the first and last parts, but I still don't agree with using the NS stats. I don't think that your economy here should be dictated by exaggerated issues that can give you a very strong economy quite easily, but can tear it down just as easily.

Quote:
 
Chroshak, In my mind is a center for trade. If you guys don't like that or think that's to OP, I'll change it. The reason Chroshak seems appealing to me is with Steampunk technology, I can easily make the land in Chroshak highly habital and industrious. I don't think it would be an Industrious Epicenter

This is exactly what I mean by making up your own economy. Having a rough basis (Strong economy, weak economy, average economy, etc.) and maybe some important industries or natural resources. If you want to have more information than those basics (GDP, exact budgets, etc.) then go ahead if that's what you enjoy RPing into your nation; but in most cases, that kind of stuff probably won't come up in an RP.

Quote:
 
Zraeln's economy is roughly I'd say 12% bigger then mine, but it could be influenced. Also Kuwait States and The Royal Army and others would be tremendously powerful and industrious for their small country sizes. I mean they have incredible GDP's that in comparison by Capita to me and Zralens, Dwarf us. They are a highly productive people which would help them maintain dominance.

If Zralen, Kuwait, and Royal Army want to RP as having super-strong economies, then they can, but if they want to be more average (economically) nations that differ from what the NS stats say, they should be able to do that as well.

Quote:
 
Populations are also a negative as with positive if you guys look at the factors of disease and Revolution ect...

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this.
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The Raj
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Apr 19 2011, 04:17 PM
Obviously, I haven't learnt how to quote in blocks yet, so bare with me.


"Well, if you guys want, Chroshak can be a weak fringe state. I don't really care."

This isn't neccessarily what I want, I was simply saying that had Chroshak existed in that time and place in RL, it would have been incredibly poor and weak. If you can come up with a IC explaination of why it isn't (Trade Route between Asia and North America for example) I'd be fine with it being a rich nation. If anything, as the founder, perhaps you should have a slightly exaggerated power to keep control of the what goes on, to an extent...

"I think the Nation states population should be cut, while the Social and Economic factors should be kept."

I agree with the first and the social factors, and I don't mind if we keep the economic factors or not. Both my NS nation and RL British Raj had strong economies, so it doesn't really affect me too much. However, whilst I understand what the Russian Empire is saying about NS economies, which can yo-yo easily as a result of single issues, I don't know if letting people choose how strong their economy is is as good idea. Maybe just stick to the relative strength of economy in RL, IE France and Britain have the strongest, then there's the second rank such as Spain and Japan, and then lower are recently colonised places like South Africa and Australia, and lowest would be uncolonised areas like the interior of Africa. I know this would make African nations very weak, but IRL they were, so why not here too?

"Also Kuwait States and The Royal Army and others would be tremendously powerful and industrious for their small country sizes. I mean they have incredible GDP's that in comparison by Capita to me and Zralens, Dwarf us."

To be honest, small nations with lots of money... could be a negative as well...

God Save His Imperial Majesty, by the Grace of God, the White Maharajah, King-Emperor Victor-Ji IV of the Kingdom of Bengal and the Indian Empire, Khan-Sahib of the Dominon of the Holy Raj, Kaiser-I-Hind.

"It is only when you get to see and realise what India really is - that she is the strength and greatness of England - it is only then that you feel that every nerve a man may strain, every energy he may put forward cannot be devoted to a nobler purpose than keeping tight the cords that hold India to Ourselves" - Lord Curzon, Viceroy of India, 1898-1905.
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Drake2
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To quote specific parts you use the "Quote" button at the top.

[quote]It should look like this on the screen before you post it.[/quote]

And I would be fine with using the RL strength of economies, with perhaps some form of customization to allow people to RP the nation they want to RP.
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The Raj
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To quote specific parts you use the "Quote" button at the top.


Ah, thank you. I've been wondering that for a while...

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customization to allow people to RP the nation they want to RP.


Yeah, that sounds fine. As long as they can justify it IC, as opposed to "We found a huge gold mine under portugal, suddenly making us the richest nation in the world"
God Save His Imperial Majesty, by the Grace of God, the White Maharajah, King-Emperor Victor-Ji IV of the Kingdom of Bengal and the Indian Empire, Khan-Sahib of the Dominon of the Holy Raj, Kaiser-I-Hind.

"It is only when you get to see and realise what India really is - that she is the strength and greatness of England - it is only then that you feel that every nerve a man may strain, every energy he may put forward cannot be devoted to a nobler purpose than keeping tight the cords that hold India to Ourselves" - Lord Curzon, Viceroy of India, 1898-1905.
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Drake2
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The Raj
Apr 20 2011, 11:37 AM
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customization to allow people to RP the nation they want to RP.


Yeah, that sounds fine. As long as they can justify it IC, as opposed to "We found a huge gold mine under portugal, suddenly making us the richest nation in the world"
Okay, it looks like we're running along roughly the same lines here.
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Greater-Austria
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Sooo, hi guys =D i claim for the Holy Empire of Greater Austria the historical properties of austria-hungary ( http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bb/Location_Austria-Hungary.png ) plus Northern - Italy, serbia, montenegro, some parts of eastern-prussia and some parts of bulgaria - if this is acceptable.

Sorry for my bad english^^
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Drake2
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Once we figure out a satisfactory system for the map, then sure.
Also, Chroshak, I just looked at the new map, and why are Sweden and Finland still one territory?
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The Raj
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Drake2
Apr 21 2011, 12:29 AM
The Raj
Apr 20 2011, 11:37 AM

Quoting limited to 2 levels deep
Okay, it looks like we're running along roughly the same lines here.
Well, that's good to know then.

I've been away for some time, have I missed any major developments, or are we still wrangling with the map?
God Save His Imperial Majesty, by the Grace of God, the White Maharajah, King-Emperor Victor-Ji IV of the Kingdom of Bengal and the Indian Empire, Khan-Sahib of the Dominon of the Holy Raj, Kaiser-I-Hind.

"It is only when you get to see and realise what India really is - that she is the strength and greatness of England - it is only then that you feel that every nerve a man may strain, every energy he may put forward cannot be devoted to a nobler purpose than keeping tight the cords that hold India to Ourselves" - Lord Curzon, Viceroy of India, 1898-1905.
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