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Worm Mafia; The end is nigh, or possibly in the semi-distant future
Topic Started: Jul 26 2017, 08:36 PM (4,030 Views)
MurderWeasel
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I have my role!

Also, VOTE: Yugi for posting before he had his PM. What's more suspicious than someone who posts before even they know if they're Town? 0_o
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MurderWeasel
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Can I double vote Yugi because the board is closed? I literally can't post there so obviously he's framing me not gonna talk potential Meanwhiles I may or may not owe, though.
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Obligatory suddenly-serious-yet-fairly-minor points:

1. Don't like self votes (Hi, Cicada!). Self-voting in joke vote stage lets you "play along" with the joke while avoiding leaving any sort of trail. I think I've hashed this out a lot of times in past games, but I really like seeing folks commit (even if just to a stupid joke).

2. Crossbow's post comes off as weird to me because everyone's screwing around but the post seems to take stuff seriously. Crossbow, how serious is your vote?
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MurderWeasel
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Cicada: you say that certain choices could lead to further information. Do you see these factors in play here? And if so, do they provide such information?
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MurderWeasel
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Hey, Yugi, why the unvote?

Frogue: Welcome! Any thoughts so far?
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Randomness
Jul 29 2017, 10:34 AM
Cicada
 
I think my logic at the time accounted for townies who have no power role so they're like 'eh' in terms of trying to sniff things out and so they let others lead the discussion?

Just a reminder for everyone in case they missed it:
Zetsu
 
14. The game is role madness. There are zero vanilla townies, and zero goons. Everyone has a power role. Power roles may be combined (i.e. a character might be a cop-bulletproof hybrid (this specific role will not appear in the game, for obvious reasons)).



Quick note here, since this torpedoed an angle I was gonna press a bit:

Generally speaking, I prefer questions to corrections with stuff like this because it results in better info. For example, if we asked Cicada "What do you mean by 'no power roles?'" We could confirm whether or not she actually caught that bit in the rules, and potentially extrapolate from there. We could also find out she meant something to the tune of "no active power roles," and not no vanillas. I mean, we can still ask/learn that stuff, but it's now going to be in the context of the clarification having been made and thus deceit eased (so, answer please, Cicada?).

I'm also going to toss a slight :( Randomness' way over this, mostly on account of my understanding of Randomness' scum playstyle being a fairly conciliatory/smooth-stuff-over one. This is pretty light spoonfeeding, and not enough to draw a vote from me, but it's notable enough I want it, well, noted.
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Yugikun
Jul 29 2017, 06:27 PM
@Murderweasel: Thoughts on Riki's vote? Thoughts on Cicada?
re: Riki, hm, I'm generally chill with the vote. That's not to say I super agree with it, but cutesy humor is a pretty typical scum slip. I like the analysis and basis, and it doesn't seem like a thing scum Bik would fake--if anything, his chiming in this constructively this early is unusual.

re: Cicada, not in love with the response to my question because adding noise to the discourse is not a good thing in most situations. I also am not digging the mode of defense; Cicada's trying really hard to meet and defuse each accusation in a somewhat calculated way that seems to be jerking around to serious really quickly. I suppose the lynch barrier is pretty low this game, but still.

Extra double plus not digging the immediate descent into WIFOM. Like, the original case was kinda meh, but in meeting it so forcefully I'm getting vibes like maybe Cicada got caught for bad reasons and is flailing over that?
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MurderWeasel
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Also, quick note: while newbie status can mean much or little, what it does tend to bring is certain assumptions and modes of operation that jump out to folks who've played a lot (like, I don't think an experienced player would've WIFOMed there, for example). There are a number of scum tells that can be plucked from the unwary this way (to use one I call out every single game and thus don't overly mind sacrificing for the sake of example, wringing ones hands after the night phase and going "Oh no, this was the worst phase ever, those dastardly yet charmingly handsome scum have really got us on the ropes, guys!").
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CrossbowPig
Jul 30 2017, 07:15 PM
In short I was trying to protect in the future against this specific kind of exact words shit but maybe I should just stop being so paranoid. I dunno.
This is something worth keeping an eye on. A preemptive defense is, generally speaking, the goal of someone keeping a close eye on not getting lynched. That's more of a scum mindset than a town one (though it's been seen a lot with newer town players of late, so is not all on its own a thing).
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Cicada Days
Jul 30 2017, 12:02 AM
I'm not actually sure what you're seeing here? I'm going to give up on defending myself since I'm legit not sure how I'm supposed to be phrasing things to not give off the signs I'm supposedly giving.
Also, to go back a little, not thrilled with this. Especially coming as it does right after this:

Me
 
I also am not digging the mode of defense; Cicada's trying really hard to meet and defuse each accusation in a somewhat calculated way that seems to be jerking around to serious really quickly.


So like, basically I go "Cicada keeps reacting super seriously and trying to meet every single objection for what's not a massive case," and Cicada goes "Oh yes silly me I shall stop defending myself so vigorously"--which is, of course, once more reacting super seriously and catering directly to the expressed suspicions.

To be clear, I'm not saying not to defend yourself. The specific vibes in this defense, however, are a little too on-the-nose for what has by my read been a relatively low-pressure case.

Also, gonna be out from ~four hours from now until probably after phase end. It appears I'm still joke voting at present, so I'll do my best to remember to toss something serious out before I go incommunicado.
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MurderWeasel
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I'm vacillating here. I actually feel a good bit worse about CBP than Cicada right now, after reviewing the posts of both. Not totally thrilled with either, but CBP is the one where I'm seeing a more clear scum play logic going.

I'm going to VOTE: CBP. Amenable to Cicada and don't wanna be the reason our lynch dies, but at the same time don't wanna vote the lesser evil I see while ignoring the one I'm most concerned about. Will check back in ~25 minutes before work, may swap my vote then just due to nervousness about our ability to get anything done. Want it very clearly on the record where my big misgivings lie, though.
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MurderWeasel
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Basically, CBP's entire play thus far has centered around avoiding responsibility and focus. The initial, seemingly-serious vote? Nope, just a joke that didn't land. But serious enough to leave the vote up! But no, wait, actually Deamon's on the level with good points about Cicada. Gotta take that vote off. Not to put on Cicada, mind, just to not have it in play.

This is coupled with taking accusations oddly seriously, which is always an unbecoming look. There's a lot of odd focus on preempting arguments, and not only that, but calling out that preempting, like "Oh hey, now you can't catch me out on this odd play!" That's not really town behavior.

I also don't like that CBP is enthusiastically pinning responsibility for being convinced on Yugi. Seems like a setup for "Whoops, not my fault! That dastardly Yugi led me astray."
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MurderWeasel
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I clicked the thread by mistake despite it being after midnight and am gonna stick to my rule about not actually participating past the gremlin hour but remind me to grumble about Yugi tomorrow.
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MurderWeasel
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So what I don't like about Yugi's post is it's a really odd bit of soft-claiming. Yugi's telling everyone, apropos of nothing, that he has an active power role (as opposed to something strictly passive, like bulletproof or nexus or whatever). He's also preemptively providing defense against any charge of being the mafia kill role ("It couldn't have been me! I was roleblocked!") but at the same time is carefully avoiding actually painting himself as town--after all, roleblocker is a common role for both town and scum. Also also, he's not even confirming that he was roleblocked, just that he assumes he was, so there's room later on to backpedal if need be. I dunno, it's just volunteering a lot of information for no real reason, which raises my suspicions.
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MurderWeasel
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I'm unthrilled with Yugi's claim, for a couple reasons. First off, it comes apropos of nothing. What did we gain from it? What prompted it? The inciting factor was my questioning Yugi's softclaim... that was also out of nowhere. So basically Yugi, for reasons unknown, engineered a situation in which he drew heat for soft-claiming, prompting a full claim as an investigative role. This right after we lose a cop. This is bad juju.

If Yugi is telling the truth, odds are pretty good he will be blocked in perpetuity or killed (depending on if scum has a roleblocker). This is a pretty small game, so I doubt we have too many investigative roles floating around. Giving one up as a freebie, especially right after we lose one, is not wise.

Similarly, the game is small enough that not having a Tracker is totally plausible, and this could be scum deploying safeclaims early. It's something that can be verified to an extent but Yugi can just go "Oh, I was roleblocked" forever and then suddenly miraculously get an action off right when that'll tip a lynch one way or the other, potentially winning the game for a scum team that lays down the foundations early.

I also don't dig the flavor-guessing. There's no way for anyone to confirm what's being said, so why even offer it? It's the sort of extra detail I don't associate with honesty, because it does nothing to corroborate the story, just looks like it does on the surface. Nobody in Town knows their flavor to counter-claim. Yugi, if he's Town, doesn't know his flavor. I do note, however, the following:

Zetsu in OP
 
17. Town will not know their flavor until their death, at which point their flavor will be revealed to the entire game.


This suggests to me that non-Town might know their flavor, which casts Yugi's poking down that path in a worse light for me.
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