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Staff Responsibility/Accountability
Topic Started: May 30 2017, 02:31 PM (3,019 Views)
TwelveFourtyFive
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Staff has a board to decide things. Why would they single-handedly just 'ok' stuff?
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TwelveFourtyFive
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Well, we can all agree that this situation is stupid and we should fix this kind of problem for v7.
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TwelveFourtyFive
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wow
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TwelveFourtyFive
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0 versions since dramafree SOTF.

Seriously, this and the Steve debate is terrible. Deadlines are a thing, it's simple. The staff forum is a thing, there staff things can be discussed.

I really wanted to read more of Bart and Scout. Aura and Ciel are both active handlers and them not being able to finish their stories is fucking ruining it for me. I despise that death post. Things were not concluded yet in this discussion. If they had been killed after the discussion, fine. But they're killed before there was a conclusion. It felt forced, and like a power sign.

This site about the story, and it looks like me that currently it's more like a power game than about the plot of Scout and Bart. I really find this staff vs. member vibe that this thread and the chat is developing disgusting. This topic is something I want to rant about, but I have to hold back, because it's none of my business. I don't want to be involved in it, but this is the biggest topic right now on this site and all relevant chats.

That death post is non-canon to me until this problem has been solved.
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TwelveFourtyFive
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Lesson of the day: Don't go inactive, kids, or people will kill off your kids with no respect.

Seriously, this is early SOTF behaviour. We took a step backwards. I was glad in TV2 when things were handled respectful, but this? Jesus Christ, this reminds me of V1 inactive kills.

Killing Scout is against the rules. Simple.

Also, now in retrospective I finally know why a new rule was introduced. But that new rule was redundant, was not a solution, does not fix this problem and feels like an excuse.

Jeff, prepare some more Scout posts. I want to read how she and Clarice meet again, goddammit. You have my permission. I'm the birthday kid and the most important person on this site (see my name). You have all the rights to continue writing her. Steve was granted, Scout should also be granted. And if staff doesn't accept it? Fuck it, Jeff, Aura, we have an Other Roleplaying forum. I invite you two to roleplay with me in a AU thread where I play Alessio and you play Scout and Bart in an AU island where both of them are still alive. This is no joke, I mean it. I haven't roleplayed with you two in V6 enough and I want to.

I want to post a funny meme to lighten the mood in my post, but I can't find one fitting.

This thread is enfuriating, it could be a stupid romantic-comedy from Germany.
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TwelveFourtyFive
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Jeff posted after an official appeal of staff. Where's the problem? That's exactly the opposite of breaking rules.
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TwelveFourtyFive
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@Toben, it's not an ultimatum. It's a geniune offer to Jeff and Aura, because I really like Bart and Scout as characters and want to know what else they would have offered. An roleplayed 'What Could've Been' thread would not only show that to me, but to the community, too, so we all would win. I want a real Scout death post. I want a real Bart death post. I want their stories to be complete.

@Prim, I cause more drama, yes. I kinda regret it, but I have the right to say my opinion out loud. I don't get yet what's wrong with saying my opinion out loud resulting in hearing more opinions on this quite irritating topic. The fire I put in this topic doesn't generate hate, I don't bash anyone, it causes more discussion and, well, we're in the subforum Roleplay Discussion.
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TwelveFourtyFive
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At the beginning of the version: Drama about someone missing the deadline, staff still approving them, resulting in team a going 'well, anyone else also would've been approved, this is not against the rules' and team b going 'naaah that's against the rules, biased and unfair'.

Near the end of the version: Drama about someone missing the deadline, staff still approving them, then retracting the approval, resulting in team a going 'well, this is unfair and against the rules' and team b going 'naaaah that's actually not against the rules, because it's okay'.

:illuminati:
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TwelveFourtyFive
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It exactly is the same issue as in the Steve thing in the greater scale. Staff does an action that's not specified in rules, opinions are split and there comes a vibe of pro staff action vs. anti staff action. This is the problem of V6. Staff does a gray zone thing, it gets criticised, drama ensues. Some people are for it, some are against it. Some people value deadline's a fucking deadline thing more, some care more about fairness for all handlers. It's a value thing.

You, as a person can have a different opinions of different values.

Contra-Steve and Contra-Appeal have both the importance in equality: You miss the deadline, you get fucked, it's nothing personal, it's just the same way everyone gets treated.

Pro-Steve and Pro-Appeal have importance in handlers-first ala everyone gets a chance with an opportunistic element in it: Welp, it happened, can't change that.

Whatever you think is better, I don't care, I just hope it gets solved.

Zetsu, I have not made any antagonistic statements, because I have not said anything against a member or a group of people. Except you like romantic-comedies of Germany. You think they are good? They are awful, and I don't regret disliking Til Schweiger and Matthias Schweighöfer movies.
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TwelveFourtyFive
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No one deserves to watch this. Germans don't have humour, it's the truth.
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TwelveFourtyFive
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I'm German :p
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TwelveFourtyFive
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Last thing before I sleep:

1. re: my behaviour. I've been addressed in this thread that I'm kinda perceived at aggressive or so. I give my thoughts on this topic, and yes, while I've not been involved in this issue and therefore I shouldn't throw as many 2 cents in this topic as I do, Toben has posted this in a public forum for discussion, not to a private PM. So I can give my thoughts on it.

2. my actual opinion on this: I've never stated to be pro or contra to the staff handling of stuff. I've been upset, because of the end of two great character's stories (I want to read BartToons stuff). I never stated my opinion, because I think it doesn't matter, because I have zero influence of the outcome and just want to wait to see how it works out. Here are my personal thoughts on this issue anyway, so you don't misunderstand me and don't think I'm like 'FUCK STAFF THEY FUCKED EVERYTHING UP'.

My brain said to Steve and Scout: Well, missed the deadline, too bad, actually they both must be gone. They did not post punctually, they fucked up, of course they should not be allowed to continue posting with Steve and Scout, because you can't make exceptions, except if they had super important reasons which they apparently don't have to my knowledge (they might have had, but it's none of my business so I don't care for the reasons why they posted so late).

My heart said: It's a fucking roleplay site. It's explicitly stated in the rules that rule number 1 is having fun. And I take that serious, and I don't perceive it as a dumb rule made by Megami/Kaishi to make this site look more fun than it is. And yes, we can be super strict and handle things as if we have to be exact and all that and look like a super strict, professional, robotic site. But it's about the fun. Was it that terrible that we had 107 instead of 106 students in V6? Not for me, I liked reading Steve. Would it be that terrible to read more of Scout and Clarice? Not for me, I enjoyed it. Both Steve and Scout have had good reasons to continue, using the given opportunities to continue writing their stories is absolutely okay for me, because it does no harm to any other handler on this site and it's profit for everyone. It's not like Ciel posted slow to break the rules, in fact Jeff seems super keen on continue writing, and even wrote a post after an appeal by staff. He seems invested in this conflict and hopes dearly for a hope of continuing writing in V6. Was it his fault he's out? Perhaps, yeah. Was he given a chance to continue writing? That too. And personally I hope for Jeff, as I would have hoped for any other handler on SOTF that they can have the chance to continue writing their characters.

Would that be my opinion if I was staff? Nope. But it's my opinion as a reader of V6 and I have my rights to not try to be professional, but personal on this. I'm 100% biased, because I like Rattle's and Jeff's writing, which has more priority over rules for me. And even if someone I really disliked would have been given the opportunity to continue writing after going inactive, writing an appeal and getting it approved, I'd be fine with them continue writing SOTF unless like they went inactive for evil reasons or I dunno it's late. I view SOTF more as a story than a roleplay. I care more about IC stories than the OOC drama. Hate me for it.

Good night.
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TwelveFourtyFive
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Some more questions I asked myself.

Why is a character who has not posted for a month without an away allowed to have a proper death thread written by their handler, but Jeff and Aura have a death post handled by SOTF_Help mid through a discussion? Staff has the right to declare inactive characters dead, but at least let the death be handled by their handlers when they're active. Equality, guys. A month is the double of 2 weeks.

Why was staff's immediate solution idea to change the rules? This new rule 'PM SOTF_Help' in retrospective to me seems as staff going 'oh, well, this is an unfortunate event. Whose fault it is? Not ours, blame the handlers for having contacted a single staffer about this issue, how dare.' That rule to me is redundant and unprofessional. I want it to be changed, get undo'd. There is a staff forum to communicate things and people should know that there's a team. Being able to say 'I'll give that issue to the other staffers' is how things have always worked out whenever I had a thing to tell to staff. Don't change a running system. The problem is not the handlers having PMed a staffer. The problem was a staffer on their own giving the handler an answer in the name of all staffers without informing the others. I don't see why the rule should be changed to address the handlers to tell them 'you cannot do things you used to do, you are not allowed to PM a staffer on chat.' Why not just tell staffers on the their first day as staff that they have power, responsibility and don't have the right to decide things on their own, because Staff chat and Staff forums are a thing. As a staffer you know the rules kinda better than than newbies: if a newbie or a handler approaches you in chat, and you know the answer, because you are a professional, you can give them answer, and if you're 100% sure on a subject or a rule, you can handle things on your own. If the issue is something you're either not 100% sure about it, or you need to talk about it with another staffer or the whole staff team, you simply redirect the issue to the staff forum, where everyone can debate about the solution and inform the handler in question to hold the line. Your job as staff is to handle the issues of handlers, that's why it's called staff, like real life staff (guess what? I work as staff in real life). We have a chat, we are not a forum-only community, we have the ability to use chat to call out issues. Why would you change this system?

Changing rules to get rid of responsibility in my opinion hurts the site, because it always had been helpful in the past (for me, at least). Now things got more complicated and not in favour of the handlers. My reaction when I first read this was just being confused, angered and facepalming. You say doing staff things as a staff member is awkward for the staffer in question? What? Being put on the spot is not a part of being a staffer? What? You are forced to give a speedy answer instead of just saying "I'll redirect that"? What? There is a problem of being unbiased, you cannot talk with a handler without ignoring the relationships, it's automatically unfair for the handler because of their relationship with the staffer. What the heck. Why do you care in the staff test about unbiasedness in theory when you say it's not your job to maintain exactly that in the practise? You want to impersonalise issues by telling handlers to write a letter to SOTF_Help? You really think this keeps relationships out? You realise things will never be anonymised in the staff forum and therefore you will know who PMed SOTF_Help or who approached the staffer? If you hate or love the person in question as a staffer, it will go away simply because it was written in a PM instead of it having being communicated with a staff member? You realise that it actually would be the other way around if the staffer who had been approached would anonymise the handler ('a handler approached me about issue x. How do we deal with it?') instead of using the name of the handler? You really think this is better for the handlers? Instead of approaching staff members in chat, to write a letter, because that creates such a 'fair difference', even though copypasting things to a staff forum thread would've been faster? Why would staff then have colours in chat? What's now the purpose of discord moderators? Does it even matter now? You guys know that dialogue is better to handle things, right? Communicating via PM is painful in comparison to handling it with a dialogue. Sometimes you just have to PM staff instead of chatting with. But that's always been the case, this ruled changed nothing, except that it now more things need to be handled via PM, which is not going to help staffers, nor the community.

No front at the staff, but that rule change just disappointed me hugely. Sorry to rant, but that really pissed me off when I read it. I lost some respect for staff after having read that, before even knowing what the heck is going on. But I went 'well, they have their reasons', /shrug, but now after having read Toben's topic and about the real issue as to why the rule was changed to be that way, this rule is disgusting to me. I work as staff in real life and it's really upsetting me.

Meanwhile in staff forum there's probably a thread called 'ban RC? yes or no'. I tried to word myself without insulting or fronting anybody. I just heavily criticised this whole approach of fixing this issue. Perhaps I will be heard by staff and hopefully they can agree with me. How I predict things are going to work out since Scout had been killed mid-discussion, though: Staff will say that Jeff went inactive, because he went inactive, and they have the rights to fix their errors, Scout's death post will still remain canon and that's the end of the issue. What I hope for: Staff will say that Jeff went inactive, because he went inactive, admit that killing Scout was wrong and that they did not handle the death of Scout and Bart with respect, delete the death post thread, let Jeff and Aura write a better death thread. Rewrite the "You have to PM SOTF_Help" rule into just a note that says "Hey, please PM SOTF_HELP when you have an issue, it's optional, but it helps us to handle things. We have good news for you, too and give you a reason why YOU should PM SOTF_Help instead of PMing a staffer on chat even though it's slightly slower! We aren't as slow as we used to be when it comes to replying to SOTF_Help PMs and you guys can PM staffers on chat to tell them to check the PM. We now care about SOTF_Help again! YAY!"

But I'm a dreamer.
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TwelveFourtyFive
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Also, Espi, it's not your fault, so stop worrying about this issue. You have no fault. Giving Aura Alice is a honour move, too.
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TwelveFourtyFive
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Also, what I want to note in my wall of text, is that I don't blame the staffer for having acted that way with Jeff. In fact, the staffer handled things perfectly in the skype chat log. Like Toben said, everything was fine and the only mistake was panicking themselves.

Never change a running system. The skype convo log shows how things were perfectly handled, how things had been handled in the past, how things would work out, and how things would work out in the future. There was no problem. The only problem was the staffer deciding things on their own. Props for calming Ciel down, who was panicking. It's a good way to handle things. I see how relationships played a role in this thing. You wanted to help Ciel. And you acted professionally, as a staffer, to calm him down.

But let me tell you one thing. Pity has no place in this kind of thing. Don't let yourself be manipulated by emotions. I tell you that as a staff member myself. Pity has no place in this thing, you are not an ass for letting Jeff wait until a proper answer comes from the rest of the team, you will not be hated by Jeff for doing your job and denying the appeal if it needs to, and you don't have to panic yourself and get yourself rushy. Seriously, that's a wrong way. When a client panics, you don't panic, too, you don't have to feel it, you have to maintain near - distance, you stay calm, you wait until the issue can be solved. Things need time and having handled it on your own was the problem. It was never the problem of Jeff having approached you, you handled it perfectly. Just rushing and deciding to solve the problem immediately by yourself was unprofessional. Not the being approached. You acted mostly well. There is absolutely no reason to change the way handlers should approach staff.

Some advice, for the future. It's none of your business what staff decides, you're not the handler of Scout, you should not care if Scout dies or not, instead you should care about whether Scout is allowed die or not, you shouldn't have been rooting for Jeff to keep his character. You don't do things for a single handler, you do things for the site. You wanted to give hope, make Jeff happy, but false hope is disastrious as a staffer. But it's alright, we all learn from mistakes. Don't empathise/sympathise in such situations, stay rational. Never pity clients.
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