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Mass Effect Mafia Game Thread
Topic Started: May 1 2017, 07:12 PM (22,105 Views)
Emprexx Plush
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Role received.

I'm really exhausted right now though, will check in again when I'm not collapsing.
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Real talk since apparently we're focusing on this: what does the ability to quote role PMs actually mean for us? Maybe scum has fake claims, or maybe there are town rolls that don't get pictures(say generic townies) or maybe there are other complications. Do we know enough to actually do anything with this info, and if not is there anything that would change that? Because honestly this feels like a red herring to me and I'm super side-eyeing anyone who suggests or hints at a mass claim(which Vyse seems to be here, poke me if someone else has but this is the one that's sticking out to me) because Town doesn't have enough information for that to be a sure fire strategy yet and if scum is suggesting it they're suggesting it because it will be advantageous for them. Reminder that flavor can easily be used to take guesses at roles in non-randomized settings, and we have a tendency to assign roles thematically around here.
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Also not super vibing on that idea; actually converting someone from town to scum seems pretty broken, especially with an Innocent Child in the game. If there's something to be had there it seems more likely that we have a traitor or someone who becomes scum under certain conditions, or perhaps a disguiser(though fuck if I know how that'd play out in a forum game).
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MurderWeasel
May 2 2017, 12:22 AM
Don't like the quoted bit here. Way too early and unprompted for even this soft a claim. I feel like Paige knows better.
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Sorry my dude but I have no idea what claim you think I'm making here?
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VysePresident
May 2 2017, 01:08 AM
VOTE: Zetsu

Kerma's still sorta there, but fading back substantially.
Are we playing the game were we repeat last game's mistakes unironically?

Like I'm in to play that game but I didn't get the memo and it's just so gosh darn embarrassing that I showed up unprepared.
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Not really into the logic either way. This kind of wheels within wheels paranoia where we go "I know what you said, but here's what you actually mean" is how scum ends up thrashing town. 90% of last game's success was just letting the most vocal town voices rip each other apart along those lines while munching popcorn and occasionally tossing another log on the fire.

Hit me with the payoff for why this is more than paranoia. What can you do with the possibility that I'm crumbing non-vanilla town, and what would I gain from that at this stage? Because right now all I'm seeing is "Paige is secretly doing a thing and it's bad play and she knows that," which is nice crumbing for setting up a case later to point back to as an "I told you so!" moment but doesn't do anything for town now other than maybe lock us in a tunnelfight, and I'm so totally over that idea XD
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EBWOP: To be clear, my intent is not to crumb anything. I feel like the rest of the post in question makes it clear I think anything that would reveal any scrap of information vis-a-vis roles and the way they're distributed to scum would be very, very bad at this point so that would be kinda counter-productive to my style here.
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MK Kilmarnock
May 2 2017, 02:01 AM
Oh and since I'm here and remember it, I AM open to the idea that past day 1, we shouldn't be convinced of the fact that Toxie is permanently town.

This is why you don't reveal yourself as innocent child on day 1.
Curious on this note: Toxie, did you request to be revealed or did Decoy just do it?
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Nah. There's a lot of fighting and bickering and speculating that won't be useful until flips start happening. I've yet to see anything from anyone that makes me feel certain of their alignment. I'm of the mind that flooding like this on the first day is way less useful than the people being quiet since it sets a tone where the quieter voices keep feeling like they can't contribute because of how overwhelming the big shouty voices are, and I'm especially side-eyeing the little narrative control moves Vyse keeps making because he thinks he's sly and nobody's gonna notice if he does it conversationally.
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Note that Vyse trying to control the narrative is not an inherent scum or town tell from him; he always does this because it allows him to play his style more effectively. It is worth noting that he's already started it up and is trying to do so very subtly though, keep a finger on that pulse and an eye on where he's leading us.
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VysePresident
May 3 2017, 01:46 PM
If you think it's subtle, I'm doing something wrong.
You're doing magician's magic, friend. The overt ones don't concern me and aren't worth commenting on, it's the ones I know you don't want me to be looking at that I'm talking about ;)
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dmboogie
May 3 2017, 01:51 PM
says the person who spent all of last game doing some fukken blood witchcraft
That's kinda exactly what I'm talking about though XD
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I'd argue that's narrative skewing. Banter aside, there's content here.

Just not enough, since more than half the game has done nothing of note.

This is the sort of thing I'm talking about. It's a little throwaway comment that's way smaller than most of Vyse's contributions and isn't making any big, obvious arguments. Note that it's coming on the heels of repeated frustrations with the size of the discussion so far and challenges the notion that you can just skip it and jump in. Vyse makes some vague allusions to "banter" without any attempt to discern what's useful and what's banter. Vyse is the loudest voice in any game that he's currently alive in(dude has 55 posts and the only other person who even comes close to that is Zetsu at 45, who we have established as Vyse Jr.), so if he sneaks a lot of stuff like this in frequently(and boy has he) amidst the big, obvious arguments, he creates a tonal environment where the quieter voices are disincentivized to speak up unless they can catch up on all this flooding. That has numerous benefits for him, from keeping the discussion limited to loud known qualities he feels like he can understand and work around to giving him a pool of lurkers to try and leverage on. There's lots of reasons to do this both as town and scum, but it's something he's almost certainly doing.

That's what I mean by subtlety. It's a small thing that's not directly related to any of our big arguments, but it manipulates the entire game environment in a way that has some pretty big potential payoffs for him. He does this a lot; a lot of our sneakier players do, myself included. We should keep a pin on it, because if Vyse is scum allowing him to exploit this gives him a big advantage for setting up scum-dominated discourse.
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Watch it and keep an eye on the overall shape of Vyse's play. Look at where and how he's leading us not just in the obvious places but on the small things. Most games where town loses to a strong Scum voice it's because the loud town voices get bumped off and a majority falling in line behind persuasive Scum. If Vyse is scum, then he's already positioning himself really nicely for that and we need to keep track of that.
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Oh I don't think Vyse is encouraging inactivity. Just intimidated/incomplete activity. Vyse and Naft favor a similar tactic of high pressure questioning: keep raising the stakes and then see who cracks. In this case, Vyse is keeping the push for activity and trying to get people to talk while making the overall scope of things remain daunting, which means it's more likely for someone to make a mistake. If he's town, he's scumhunting. If he's scum, he's looking for a weak point to start setting up mislynch cases and distractions later on. That's why I say to keep track of it rather than pushing for a lynch on it, because the behavior can go either way.
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VysePresident
May 4 2017, 12:32 AM
Read update -

-Doc says a whole lot of stuff that doesn't go anywhere. Would like some reads and commitments, even if it's just minor. There's enough stuff to at least make some preliminary guesses.
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