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Aperture Science Mafia.; Cake and grief counseling will be made available afterwards.
Topic Started: Mar 5 2017, 05:17 AM (12,471 Views)
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My detention in the relaxation vault was neither brief nor pleasant, but I am ready to begin enrichment.
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I claim gelato instead of ice cream.
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VOTE: Dannyrulx

For having impeccable sense of timing in claiming his flavour.
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Looking back at my last couple posts, I think I kinda get where you're coming from, but do you mind outlining your reasons for the serious vote?
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It's good that the joke phase is over, honestly. The shorter it is the more information we can actually get.

Can't really respond to NAFT's argument though, especially since I don't actually know what the details of the argument are beyond the fact that I look scummy. I'll admit that the timing on my joke vote looks really sketchy in hindsight, but I simply thought that the timing of Danny's flavour claim wasn't great with murder's post right before it.
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Oh my gosh, I didn't mean that the vote wasn't great as if it was a serious vote. Danny's post came like two minutes after Toben's so it's not like I can really read ill intent in that. I meant that the timing was unfortunate and prime for a joke vote.

Sorry for not being clear about this in the previous post!
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MurderWeasel
 
Randomness: Why did you so easily understand NAFT's Vote?

Aside from the timing of your Flare vote, what else is potentially suspicious about your first three posts?
I assume that this was a mistake and you're talking about Danny, right?

So the main thing I see is still the timing, but more specifically, because I had just added to the bad claim pile, and my vote came shortly after your prompt for more votes, so I can see how someone can read into that as trying to deflect attention.
MurderWeasel
 
Who are you responding to here, and why are you framing it more like you're surprised by the heat now?
I was responding to NAFT, who seemed to at that time have gauged my vote on Danny to be a serious vote, when I was talking about why I chose to give my joke vote on Danny then. The surprise is at the fact that NAFT was taking my vote as a serious one, when I don't think I implied that it was serious.
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NAFT
 
The 'it was a joke vote but not a joke vote' rationale bugs me more than anything else at this point.
This bit was what made me think that you misunderstood my post. What made you think that I was arguing that it was not a joke vote? If you aren't arguing that, then what do you mean by this?

The reason I agreed with you in the first place, was because I wanted to see what your argument was for the serious vote. I had gone back to look at my posts, to see what were the likely reasons for why you were voting for me, and I found something that I thought you might base your arguments on. Given that I did find something potentially scummy, I agreed that there was something, and waited to hear what your argument for me being scummy was, because if I heard that argument or something similar, I'd be ready to treat you as town for the time being, since you were booting the game out of the RVS as well as actively searching for scum at the early stage of the game.

Right now, I'd also like if more people would chime in and give their opinions instead of leaving it all to the usual voices.

Riki seems to have had opinions on the events, but wanted to not interrupt NAFT. Goose, Brackie and Flare have all also commented on the confusing nature of the developments thus far. There are other people who have been quiet, but the four of them have all made posts since this has become a thing, but haven't actually made their opinion known. Things are a little clearer than when any of you last posted, do you have any thoughts on how things have unfolded?
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That's was my entire reasoning for the vote, and even if it is weak reasoning and looks like cover, it was what I was doing. It was mainly an attempt to move forward from NAFT's initial suspicion towards his case on me. I think the way I phrased it makes it look much more like a calculated play than it actually was at the time that I made the post. Rereading my posts was something I did because I was confused at NAFT's vote, and agreeing with him, was the first thing I thought of to move things along, and the fact that it helped identify him as town ensured that I did it.

I get that it's scummy, and I get that I've only been reactive since that point, but honestly, I don't know what I can say that doesn't make me seem scummier. Defending my bad play feels futile, because it was a weird play that wasn't well considered, while trying to talk about something else makes it look like I'm trying to deflect attention.

I had a post lined up, about one of Zetsu's posts and how it informs a few reads, but i held off on posting that since it feels like trying to push attention onto someone who is already under heavy scrutiny. Gonna throw it out anyway, since I really don't know what else I can do.

Zetsu's post on his read on Decoy is quite interesting to me. It sort of treats Murder's read on Decoy as a be all end all, gives Decoy a little too much benefit of the doubt, while dismissing Deamon on Decoy's posts' lack of content. Clearly, reads should evolve over time, so Zetsu's town read of Decoy seems misplaced.

I'm hesitant to read Zetsu as scum though, given that he seems to be picking far more fights than he can handle. While this might be a scum move trying to sow confusion, I don't really see how it's beneficial for scum to get the entire game to focus their attention on them, especially when there is another case going on at the time. It evens out as a null read for me, there's enough of a mess that I'm not willing to call it either way.

There's a lot of talk on his case, but no one seems willing to vote, so I get the feeling scum might be testing the waters for a mislynch. If that's the case Paige and Deamon rise to the top of my scum list.

Another thing of note for me is how Yugi just dropped off after his part in the Zetsu push. He makes a few points to help get the push moving, but ever since the push on Zetsu has taken a life of its own, his activity has dropped off. This doesn't look good for him, so a light scumread on him due to this.

Staying out of step with town would actually be good cover for Decoy after Murder's statement, and giving him that much benefit of the doubt is weird on my end. It's kind of been weird that Decoy has been pretty active this dayphase, and that's something that we should watch out for. But while his posts have been a little content light, I feel that the tone and content has actually been reading quite positively for him.

Flare's vote on Zetsu seems on the level. I don't think that reading Zetsu off one game is entirely fair, but he notes that and other caveats on the case well, and which makes it all the stronger. Reading him as town for now.
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Looks like I completely misread that post. Going to have to reconsider my read on Zetsu.
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Okay first off, I said I'd review my read on Zetsu, but that misread post doesn't really seem to change the case? I don't really see how the way he's been playing is beneficial for scum, but it's a confusing play that seems anti-town at the same time. It looks marginally less worrisome now, leaning marginally town, but I'm still quite unsure.

Deamon and Paige are both people I'm reading as potential scum due to the way they have been pushing their case on Zetsu. Zetsu seems to not do well under pressure, and I can see his reactions as prime mislynch bait, if he is town. If he's scum, it could be a bussing attempt, so it could go either way.

Deamon:
Deamon reads badly, given that the first half of his ISO are memes and jabs that don't really engage with arguments, and instead seems to dismiss them. He does poke and prod people, especially people who are flying under the radar, but he gives few concrete reads, and the only reads he gives with explanation are prompted.

I'll admit that this feels similar to my argument on him the previous game though, so I can't outright say that this is his scum game, but it's a bad look in my opinion. Leaning scum for now.

Naft:
NAFT is someone who I'm having quite some difficulty in reading, and I think it's because his playstyle is so wholly different from my own? I mean, the absolute last thing I expected as his case for voting on me was a gut feeling.I'm also a little unsure why the pressure on my case from his side seems to have dropped off without explanation as compared to the beginning. The vote is still on me, to be sure, but he hasn't been prodding me after this post. Could be that there are other cases, that are more pressing or could be that he's worried about drawing attention to his push on me after the coaching accusation but it still feels sketchy that he stopped pushing a case he sounds sure on. Actually, @NAFT can I get an answer on this?

I'm also a little confused at why NAFT and Deamon are being seen as a block. I had thought Paige came up with it at first, but I can't seem to find it right now, so I have no idea where it came from and who supports this idea. I'm going to have to look at this one again.

Overall, though, his analysis seems credible for the most part and he has been pushing and prodding in a way that feels genuine. The recent posts have been a little sharp and evasive, though, and I'm not really liking that all that much. I was leaning towards town, but it's been slowly drifting towards a null for a while now.

Paige:
My read on Paige is largely based on her two fights with Zetsu. I think the initial point of contention that started the fight was fine, but the arguments lead to a bunch of snarky tunnel fighting that makes the exchange come off looking bad for both of them. The first push also doesn't really have a cohesive feeling to it, and that makes it feel like a potential search for mislynch bait.

On the other hand she's also making a lot of contributions that have helped to push conversations forwards and she's been pushing cases in a way that feels sensible. I'm still not liking the push on Zetsu, and I'm leaning lightly scummy for now, but this isn't exactly a strong read.
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EBWOP: Just to be clear, NAFT is still a light town read for me. Not a null.
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@Dea is that meme targetted at me? First off, the reads are in response to Murder's question. Second of all, I think I might as well get my reads out there since a) I get lynched and town at least gets my reads to dissect together with my lynch instead of just my interactions, b) I don't get lynched and there's a trail for us to review in latet phases instead of having to guess what my opinions on things are.

The thing is, I'm not confident enough on any of my scum reads to start a case, and all I can do right now is lay out my reads, but I really don't like the way you're trying to throw shade on them entirely.
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@Brackie
What? I don't think the amount of words is really a great argument to base a lynch off, and since this is the first game where I've been actively suspected, I don't think writing more reflects anything other than the fact that I have been engaging with the arguments against me.

@NAFT
We are at L-4 right now if I'm counting right, so I don't really see why you say that we are at hammer?
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@NAFT, I don't quite see you what you are pointing to when you say I'm trying to move discussion around? I feel that my play has been largely replying to the accusations on me, and engaging them for the most part instead of making pushes, so I'm not sure how you see me as someone who has been moving discussion around and looking for alternative lynches?

Furthermore, I don't see how looking for another lynch is scummy in and of itself, trying to avoid getting themselves mislynched is something I feel both town and scum would do.

If you're just talking about my first read post, this is exactly why I worried about how it looks. I already know that it'd look like trying to deflect attention for that post, but like I said, getting my reads out there before I die is better than the alternative, not giving town any info before I get lynched.

Honestly, being lynched for info isn't the worst thing given how much of a mess the conversation has become, but I really can't see where you are coming from on this specific line of argument.
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