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Battle Royale Mafia Game Thread
Topic Started: Jan 26 2017, 10:53 PM (13,728 Views)
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Grim Wolf
Jan 26 2017, 11:46 PM
Role confirmed, unlike boogie.

VOTE: FLARE

Look, I'm just saving us some time here. We all know it's gonna happen happen eventually.
How dare you

I am a changed man

VOTE: Grim Wolf
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I know Zetsu's new to Mafia on here, but remind me if Frogue's been in a game before? If they've always been this aggressive, then I think the Zetsu vote makes more sense, but otherwise I'm highly suspicious of them for lashing out so early.

On the other hand, I feel like Zetsu was the one who escalated things in the first place? I'm still not sure why they did that and it didn't really feel like a natural flow from joke phase into serious time - felt a little forced?

I feel like one of these two is on a hair trigger for scum or some big third party role.
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VysePresident
Jan 29 2017, 01:00 AM
Flare
Jan 28 2017, 11:56 PM
I know Zetsu's new to Mafia on here, but remind me if Frogue's been in a game before? If they've always been this aggressive, then I think the Zetsu vote makes more sense, but otherwise I'm highly suspicious of them for lashing out so early.

On the other hand, I feel like Zetsu was the one who escalated things in the first place? I'm still not sure why they did that and it didn't really feel like a natural flow from joke phase into serious time - felt a little forced?

I feel like one of these two is on a hair trigger for scum or some big third party role.
Minor scumleans from this post.

Can you actually give an opinion on the subject? You literally just argued for both sides.

Also, why does there have to be one scum in here? (At least, that's what I'm understanding your last line to mean.) Why couldn't it be both Town?

Also, Frogue was in that game I replaced you in - Cambodia Mafia. He was scum in that game, you were Town. I think Frogue's been in most of the games I've been in since Scrubs Mafia. (Where all three of us were Town, and I ended up mislynching you. He was pretty aggressive about wanting me dead back then too.)
I wouldn't say I'm arguing for both sides - now that you've given me indication that Frogue tends to be more aggressive as scum, I'm more inclined to be wary of the pushing for Zet so hard right off the bat, which alleviates a fair amount of my suspicion on Zet. I didn't think they were both town because a lot of this back and forth comes out of people being jumpy and making odd choices based on the first hint of confusion or pushback, which strikes me as WAY more scum than nervous town.
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VysePresident
Jan 29 2017, 02:20 PM
Can you do me a favor and go post by post and tell me what you think? (If it helps, here's an ISO for Frogue and one for Zetsu)

Also, I said Frogue was aggressive as Town. It's not a hard and fast rule though, so I'm not going to accept that if you try to switch to Town. I want a full read, please.
That was my plan, just wanted to get a quick and dirty response out first so people knew where I stood before I went in deeper.
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Let's do some digging.

fogu
 
zetsu
 
because voting without giving any reason is clearly scummy
zetsu
 
none of my posts thus far have been serious
does this mea n that you don't think voting without giving any reason is scummy?

if you don't think that is scummy, why the vote for candy?


This is the first post in the whole argument that strikes me as really weird. The use of 'clearly' marks the phrase as obviously sarcastic and as quotes, None of Zetsu's posts thus far had been serious... but that doesn't mean that there's literally zero kinds of truth in Zetsu's posts like it's Opposite Day. Frogue trying to make a point out of this strikes me as either a gigantic misreading or trying to lame blame when there's nothing there.

... Actually, wait, that's literally it. No wonder the whole argument was confusing to me last night, because the whole thing is entirely baseless. Frogue makes an accusation based on an (IMO) blatant misreading, Zetsu defends logically while asking some questions of others, and then Frogue votes on them for some reason? There's pressure votes, sure, but this literally has nothing behind it and has no real useful discussion points to talk about - and lo and behold, nothing really constructive has come out of it since. I could get Frogue wanting to get discussion going, but this reads as aggression for the sake of it rather than an earnest attempt to divulge meaning from the actions of other players.

VOTE: Frogue

And, of course, scum leans as well on Vyse for looking like a very opportunistic bandwagoner, following Frogue's vote with a vote of his own before the discussion even really got underway.

That's all I have on that argument, but some another thing stuck out to me as I went back...

Grim Wolf
 
Read book and manga, watched movie. I'm the nerd in class you all hate.

Also, really don't like random joining the nascent wagon on Yugi under the pretense of a joke vote.


As Vyse pointed out, joining a wagon means literally nothing when it's still obviously the joke voting phase. What would a mafia member even stand to accomplish by doing so? Again, pointless feuding that wouldn't actually ever lead to revealing scum.
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Deamon
 
I see you there trying to discredit your primary accuser


If my primary accuser didn't immediately jump onto a really questionable bandwagon while offering literally no explanation for his vote in the post I wouldn't have anything to get on him about. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Randomness
 
@Flare: Why do you think there wasn't anything to talk about? What do you think of the other people commenting on the whole fight? If we were to lynch Frogue and he flips scum, who would you suspect? Same for town?


There's an important distinction. People definitely discussed the argument, yes. Heck, I'm technically doing it right now. That doesn't make the discussion good or necessarily all that productive. I could vote for Vyse and say it's because I don't like his usage of prepositions - certainly something for people to react to, but nothing that shows I'm actually interested in deducing who's scum and who's not. Frogue DID cause discussion, but nothing substantial IMO besides "yeah, Frogue's pretty scummy".

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VysePresident
 
I like how you're ignoring my explanation in my large readpost to push this as an 'unexplained vote' simply because it started as a naked vote. :)

Observe my vote in the context in which it was made. Then consider the [url]explanation[/url] I gave, and tell me why you think that's scummy again?

I also am curious why you're characterizing my vote as a bandwagony vote? Not disagreeing actually, but curious as to how you got there since I was technically first. What bothers me here is that it feels like you're looking for words to dismiss me rather than accurately considering events. :/

I started a really questionable bandwagon mate, deal with it. B)


I will concede that your vote isn't *explicitly* bandwagony - when I wrote my post, I must have mixed up the order and thought that you placed down your vote before Frogue did. At the same time, the vote did come at a weird time where Frogue hadn't fully started accusing Zetsu yet - and I get pressure votes, but it's odd to do so when you haven't contributed to the line of discussion at all and aren't part of the original conflict. It strikes me as weirdly opportunistic.

In terms of you calling me out for context reasons, though... I frankly think I'm missing something, because if not than this is just a blatantly stupid argument. Just so I show my work, let's go through each of your posts in order before and after the vote.

VysePresident
 
Heading for bed for real now, even if I have to take a knockout melatonin dose. I'll catch up with you in the morning mate, night!


This is the last post before your vote. It's about 12 hours earlier, obviously unrelated to the matter since it hadn't really happened yet. Jump forward those 12 hours...

VysePresident
 
Unvote

Vote: Zetsu


And there's the vote. Not reasoning why, no addition to the conversation, just a vote. Super alarming to me, but you're right in that someone COULD follow up their vote with reasoning if they wanted to get it out there quickly or make it stand out more.

VysePresident
 
In other news, I'm irked at my other vote being largely ignored, but tabling it for now.


Your next post, one minute later, is completely unrelated.

VysePresident
 
Frogue might be Town, take this Town point.

Goose for Town, albeit I'm a lil' biased.


And then... reads on two different people? That seems like a weird jump to take without first explaining why you made the vote you had JUST placed.

VysePresident
 
Zetsumodernista
Jan 28 2017, 03:16 PM
Unvote

Vote: fogu

For memeing excessively and making me confused as to when he's being a troll and when he's posing serious questions. It makes stuff harder to analyze, which reads scummy
Why are you voting instead of talking?


Your next post is outright laughable considering YOU voted without talking first and gave less of an explanation than Zetsu did.

VysePresident
 
Better yet, why vote Frogue over me? I didn't even give any reasons, do you not think that falls under trolling?

If you're confused, shouldn't you be asking questions?

I'm trying to understand this vote.


OK, so now it comes out that you were... trolling for a reaction? This falls under the same reasoning for why I dislike Frogue's vote - trying to generate discussion by making an out-of-the-blue, illogical vote doesn't actually DO anything besides make the person doing it look suspicious. The best you get is if they fire a vote back at you, in which case, whoopty doo, they've just done the same thing you just did, only you did it under the guise of trolling so you're right I guess? If you're gonna pressure someone, pressure them with, y'know, something that actually makes sense.

VysePresident
 
Just to make sure I follow, are you saying you believe the conversation was forced? I'm kinda tired at the moment, blame getting sucked into a long philosophical discussion on Discord until 5 freaking am >_<


That is correct. The argument started from what was at worst a minor communication and somehow spiraled into the BIG DEBATE OF THE DAY, which hardly seems genuine to me without huge leaps of logic.
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Feb 1 2017, 01:39 PM
Cake
Feb 1 2017, 11:01 AM
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Feb 1 2017, 10:49 AM
Cake
Feb 1 2017, 10:32 AM
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Jan 31 2017, 09:40 PM
Frogue is iffy; I'm not super stoked about a lynch on him, but he has majority right now I could live with it if it comes down to that. I don't really like the "oh frogue is always argumentative" defense because it's sort of true but ignores the fact that he isn't usually this straightforward about it on Day 1. That, coupled with the sudden drop off and the fact that his irl reduced activity reason makes it hard to gauge whether he's lurking or not, bugs me.

I'll go Frogue if a more appealing option doesn't appear by tomorrow. Day 1 no lynches are my worst enemy.
I agree, Day 1 no lynches are not ideal for town. So let's work one out, between our choices.

You haven't referenced the other leading candidate for a lynch as of yet. Flare is not too far behind from Frogue in votes. Just one apart.

Would you vote Flare over Frogue? Do you think he's more or less scummy? Why?
Flare doesn't look significantly different to me from other times I've played with him - actually the most alarming thing concerning him is how easily Paige came to his defense to brush off suspicion, but she kiiinda did a similar thing to Frogue. It makes me eyeball her more than either of them, really. My other hesitation to vote Flare right at this moment is that doing so would tie the vote with just about a day left in the phase, and I can't rely on somebody else switching their vote or jumping in if they hadn't voted yet. I'd much rather tilt the scales in the direction of a probable lynch than a probable tie resulting in No Lynch.
Vote: Flare

I've removed the one vote difference.
Well, fair enough.

Vote: Flare

Clarification: is it eleven just to get a lynch, or eleven to hammer?
I'm really interested in hearing from everyone who voted just to choose between me and Frogue, but this in particular stands out to me. You say you're iffy on me and iffy on Frogue but then go with me when the votes are tied; what's your reasoning?

I will say that people have brought up the fact that I'm wishy-washy, and yeah, I'll own up to that. I shy away from super aggressive play, but sometimes I go too far in the opposite direction out of habit, especially early on in the game. I'll work on being better on that.
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I understand Frogue hasn't been around for RL reasons apparently, but on the other hand, it's not like they haven't been around to make arguments and defend themselves. In fact, Frogue has more posts than anyone in this thread other than Vyse, Zetsu, and Deamon. RL issues are a whole bag of potatoes, but I don't like the idea that someone could theoretically drop off for a couple of days near the end of the phase and just avoid being as scrutinized.
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Come ON.
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