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Bastard Mafia Fallout Thread; NYEH HEH HEH HEH x3 COMBO!
Topic Started: Jan 31 2016, 04:08 PM (1,067 Views)
VoltTurtle
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Welp. That happened.

Role PMs:

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Night Actions:

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Game Design:

Man I don't even. This game was my attempt at making a bastard game that was relatively balanced and (more importantly to me) trying to balance a cult. In order to fix the problem where cults typically tend to either get wiped out day 1/2 or win the game, I included a few failsafes that would make sure that the cult couldn't be wiped out on the first few nights (1x bulletproof on the cult leader, a single-use backup recruiter without the bulletproof and with limited shots, etc) but also included a bunch of lategame weaknesses (dayvig, the recruitproof private investigator, the mentor, non-consecutive night recruitment) that would really mess up the cult if allowed to run amok (which is what happened, to the letter).

The other thing I did was try and see if I could make a game interesting without an actual mafia (on top of that just being super delightfully bastard). I think I succeeded, but I'm not sure. As for other things to say... I dunno. A lot of my thoughts are in the dead QT.

One other thing I can comment on is that backslash/Zarina having to bail on the game really messed things up for me, since the game required the mentor role to function and be paced properly. As a result I had to awkwardly do some live balancing by random-recruiting Deamon and then giving him Zarina's role PM when she was mod-killed and letting him recruit and kill on night two. Pulling him into those awkward circumstances felt sucktastic, so I gave him an honorary winner position as if he'd still been a part of the town.

Something I'll definitely keep in mind for the future is not letting my excitability cause me to comment on things, because I dun goofed a couple of times because of that which penguin rightfully (if a bit dishearteningly) chewed me out on.

So, yeah. What do you guys think?

Quicktopics:

Dead QT: http://quicktopic.com/51/H/nxZ5eLkpDMv
Cult QT: http://quicktopic.com/51/H/wE9M62qKxhkQz
Mentor QT: http://quicktopic.com/51/H/hRVGDjH27GQ
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Primrosette
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I can't even. Dmboogie's role.... That's kind of funny.
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VysePresident
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Thank you mod for your time, and thanks to everyone for playing. For all my pushing and prodding, this was actually a very active and fun game, and it's thanks to you guys for making it that way.

Turtle did stumble in spots, but I appreciated the time, courtesy, and effort she gave. I did advise regarding some of the stuff Penguin mentioned, and specifically avoided noting that Turtle had essentially confirmed my role. (It's an easy mistake to make, and I've noted such to 3-4 mods now, to be fair.)

While I have a tendency to get a little 'mean' when I've got my gameface on, I hope you guys get that it's nothing more than a presentation to get things done.

(Although, I was a little upset by some of the crap getting thrown my way towards the middle. No need to call me an idiot, seriously. :/ )

(And Namira, I'm opinionated as heck, but I hope you don't think I'm actually elitist. I try to present a strong front, because that's how I get people to listen to me. I also refer to suboptimal play as 'weak' precisely to avoid the crap that comes with people who call others 'stupid' and 'morons' for not playing optimally, or worse, not reading someone a particular way. I need to be able to call out weak play as such - this is a game about judging each other, in many respects - but I hope you know it's not mean-spirited.)




Regarding the game, I am so very relieved. I was terrified of repeating Scrubs, but I'm actually really happy with how my reads turned out this game. Murder and Penguin were my strong reads, MK was obviously a recruit pick,

As you guys may have noticed, I lied about being Ascetic - I was a permanent auto-commuter, and thus immune to all actions.I was laughing so hard when Deamon picked up my bait about being Ascetic, and totally murderable. :P

Still, it was very well played on Deamon's part, and I think it might have taken me a while to catch on to him if it hadn't been for Murder.

I find it hilarious that MK was recruited twice, though I'm not sure how that works for game breaking purposes?

I liked that Turtle tried to make this a real game instead of a pure player rage-fest. I think she's got a lot of potential, and would gladly join any game she mods in the future, given time and energy.

Also...not to be mean, but we could have lynched the Cult Leader earlier instead of the Beloved Princess, just saying.

More thoughts to follow after I've had a chance to read the QTs.
Constructive criticism is always welcome! Feel free to send me a PM if you have any pointers or feedback you'd like to share!

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MurderWeasel
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More complete thoughts to come later!

That said, I want to give special mention to Vyse for catching me instantly. Part of how I play scum is that I tend to have a specific plan for managing each of the people who routinely give me trouble. In this case, Vyse's was "Recruit him night one." Unfortunately, I was busy with RL stuff and so actually didn't realize what he'd claimed until near the end of the phase, and thus didn't really bother managing my image there ("It'll look better if we clashed early," I thought). Then, I didn't realize what form of suicidal he'd claimed until way, way late in the game, which is what kept me believing his ascetic claim. By the time I figured out it might be bunk, it was late enough that it'd be a huge gamble to test.

So yeah. I had a lot of fun shouting blatant lies at people all game.
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Quote:
 
One other thing I can comment on is that backslash/Zarina having to bail on the game really messed things up for me, since the game required the mentor role to function and be paced properly. As a result I had to awkwardly do some live balancing by random-recruiting Deamon and then giving him Zarina's role PM when she was mod-killed and letting him recruit and kill on night two. Pulling him into those awkward circumstances felt sucktastic, so I gave him an honorary winner position as if he'd still been a part of the town.


Yeah, if circumstances had allowed I definitely would have tried to stay active but not having my computer for a month shot that all to hell :/ It's unfortunate and hopefully the next game I go for won't have the same problems on my end. Sorry again for springing that on you out of nowhere.
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Namira
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I'm going to be blunt in the interests of getting my point across; this game was very town sided. Specifically, I mentioned this to some extent already, but it was almost impossible for the SK duo to win. Vyse couldn't die and got his PR softened twice. Doc couldn't die and didn't have the actual drawbacks of treestump. I, had I not been recruited, was also one shot bulletproof. Town had a whole cadre of power roles (including two point five flavours of cop and two flavours of doc) and little to inhibit it - the cult's failsafes included one of their two members needing their leader to die and their leader dying if a townie died. Goose was essentially both unrecruitable (because he'd immediately show up as cult) and confirmed town immediately.

It didn't matter since the rest of the cult was dead but Ricky shouldn't have been recruitable - if a cult member can be stolen that outs the entire cult.

So yes, I'm not trying to be overly harsh here, but town had all the cards in their hand.

Edit: Also me being recruitable by the mentor meant that it was impossible for me to win.
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VysePresident
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Haha, I'm glad that your best strategy against me right now is "Recruit ASAP, do not engage, do not engage!" :P

That's a heck of a compliment, coming from you, sir.

Also, my role had me almost in tears when I got it. It's just so well-suited to screwing me over specifically, it was hilarious.

The image battle was an absolute pleasure, and I loved the counterplay from Murder.

That said, it was a textbook example of dismissing somebody based on something irrelevant ("Oh, he's tunneling! He must be wrong! :P ) But I figure MK and others knew that by then. ;)

Likewise, while people picked up on it, I just want to say, Penguin was a textbook chainsaw defense - attacking me to defend Murder. Bad play my foot. :P

And in regards to lynching bad players, all I can say is, we lynched Slam. That could easily have cost us the game. Aura wasn't bad, if a bit weak, but the thing about weak players

I dunno, my meta tells are very soon to be countered I'm sure, but generally speaking, it's just common sense, IMO.

I also tend to let stuff like empty votes run, because I'm more interested in seeing if Newb Scum bites on them than I am in calling the bluff early. I get more information from reactions to vulnerabilities than I do to said vulnerabilities. (Which does occasionally hurt me when said people are scum, but that's surprisingly rare.)

Constructive criticism is always welcome! Feel free to send me a PM if you have any pointers or feedback you'd like to share!

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dmboogie
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I had a good time doing absolutely nothing of value with my role! :P Not a single one hit a scum and I find that hilarious
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Primrosette
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I'll be honest. I think I just voted for Slam (beloved Princess) because I got tired of the "kill me, kill me" thing. Nothing against you really, Slam. You will always Be beloved in your role.

Oh, Vyse. Are you talking about that shame thing. Because if you are, then yeah. I thought that was a bit mean, you guys.

I really did enjoy this game even if it was just my second one. I had fun playing against MW. It was a shame how it ended because of RL for you. But I do hope do another game with you guys in the future. : )

I have to say that the Cult Leader was the biggest challenge and MW was definitel my favourite person to play against. I know I wasn't that great at my role. But I still had a lot of fun! : )
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Riki
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Sooo, what exactly made the compulsive part of my compulsive role?
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Pippin
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i... think that's the first Mafia game I haven't died in? And actually did a useful?

2016: YEAR OF THE PIPPIN

also holy heck, Death Miller too? I suspected I was an insane cop by... night two? and confirmed it when I investigated Goose, but miller was a complete mystery to me.
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Primrosette
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Well, a lot of town was dying at first, Namira. So it must have been going in Cult's direction. Well, it was at first. : D
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Teams full of evil people seem to have the habit of dominating the game up until the last couple of phases until they just collapse.

Also woo I'm going to pretend that my act of suicide did something!
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Primrosette
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Well, you did help reveal that there was a cult, Yugi : )
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VoltTurtle
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Namira
Jan 31 2016, 05:20 PM
Specifically, I mentioned this to some extent already, but it was almost impossible for the SK duo to win. Vyse couldn't die and got his PR softened twice. Doc couldn't die and didn't have the actual drawbacks of treestump. I, had I not been recruited, was also one shot bulletproof. Town had a whole cadre of power roles (including two point five flavours of cop and two flavours of doc) and little to inhibit it - the cult's failsafes included one of their two members needing their leader to die and their leader dying if a townie died. Goose was essentially both unrecruitable (because he'd immediately show up as cult) and confirmed town immediately.

It didn't matter since the rest of the cult was dead but Ricky shouldn't have been recruitable - if a cult member can be stolen that outs the entire cult.

So yes, I'm not trying to be overly harsh here, but town had all the cards in their hand.

Edit: Also me being recruitable by the mentor meant that it was impossible for me to win.
While I do agree that the game was town-sided, I don't think it was as one-sided as you are saying, point by point:

1. Vyse could still be lynched. Additionally, I had a failsafe in place that he would suicide immediately if the mayor and the tree were the only townies left due to the tree annoying him to death.

2. I had a failsafe for Doc's role in that regardless of faction, if the tree was the only player left that faction was eliminated.

3. Pippin, as a cop, was actually entirely negative utility as both a death miller and an insane cop with the "mafia" and "not-mafia" flavors, resulting in the same results as a paranoid cop (but with the added bonus of being innocent if he investigated himself). Prim was the only real cop, but only found cultists AND had the condition of only becoming a cop upon the death of the wise one or a cultist death. Yugi just played his role really well.

4. Town's two doctors both only handled one of the scum factions, and the doctor handling the cult required the previous doctor to die. The original doctor also had the weak modifier (and a hidden one at that) making the role much more likely to die. Additionally, the cultist nurse would announce herself to the cultists or mentor/mentee if they happened to target them from the loud modifier.

5. Town's limitations were entirely built into the chaos and confusion caused by (a.) the roles not working the way they were supposed to (random roleblocker, insane cop with no mafia, compulsive bus driver, nexus, gunsmith in a game where nobody had guns) and (b.) the fact that there was no mafia in a mafia game, along with certain extremely potent negative utility roles (death miller, beloved princess, paranoid gun owner, absolutely hated/super fragile). Most of this stuff never came to pass, but if it did I guarantee the game wouldn't have been so cut and dry. That being said, I probably should have included more negative utility town-side than I did, but I still feel like I packed a ton in there to inhibit town.

6. Cults are extremely powerful. The limitations I put on the cult were to prevent them from getting out of hand immediately.

7. As for Goose, I feel that both the cult and the mentor/mentee really misplayed when it came to handling him. The cult could have recruited him and then had him hold his shot (saying he's not sure or something) until the very last moments of the day phase upon which no random shot would go off. This would have made him obvious cult the next day phase, but the cult would have wasted two day phases and eliminated a massive threat at the cost of just one recruitment, acting as a delayed kill that would waste town's time. The mentor/mentee didn't shoot Goose even though both the doctor and nurse were dead, which was a questionable decision, plain and simple.

8. This was an oversight, admittedly. I never included in the cultist role PMs that they were unrecruitable (but had the leader/speaker as unrecruitable) and I didn't want to be super picky about it.

9. As for you being recruitable by the mentor, you got me there. Real sorry about that.
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