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Persy and Naft's Excellent Critique Adventure; DANANUNUNUNUNUNUNUNUNUNU
Topic Started: Nov 29 2013, 10:51 PM (4,861 Views)
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A NotAnUn-Persona's Behind The Scenes Extra!

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A NotAnUn-Persona Public Service Announcement!

Hey there folks, just me this time, you probably noticed we're on an unofficial hiatus again, so we decided to make it official. Again. With starting TV2 being our main focus, along with personal work and business on both of our sides, we just wanted to let you know, and hope you'll stand by for when we're up and ready to do this again.

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It would be quite accurate to call this a comeback.

Critique: Yukiko Sakurai

Wait, WHAT!? An update? Persy, surely my eyes do decieve me!

Nope. We’re doing it man, we’re doing it. As a note, we’re not back up to full speed, but we did manage to find each other where we were both ready and available for this. In any case, Naft, start us off!

One thing that grabbed me right off the bat about Yukiko is how she jump-started her story with a bit of a pre-game flashback to a phone call, ‘starting’ Yukiko’s story halfway through her first post. While most of the time when handlers do the ‘cut-away’ style introduction, I was appreciative of it because it gave Yukiko a solid prologue, and it doubled back to be relevant when Yukiko stated her desire to find Chase for Miriam, the lady on the phone. It was a rare example as one of these cut-aways to actually mean something for the plot, and that deserves some pretty good props in my book!

I think a rather interesting quirk in Yukiko’s story at the beginning is that it’s very linear and takes place in a short space of time, chronologically. For her first three threads, everything occurs in the hotel, going from the pools, to the lobby, and finally the upper levels. It’s nothing really important, but I figure it’d be neat to explain that the people groups up with all feel very natural together as if the threads took place over the course of a few days, rather than a small section of Day One. So I think it’s appropriate to say that her reaction to David’s death was actually done well, despite it logically being a short amount of time the two spent together. Unfortunately, I feel Yukiko and her group lose a bundle of steam after the fact.

Yeah, they’re a weird pairing after the fact. David and Yukiko had a bond somewhat, them being the first people each other saw on the island. Even Jenna being with the group made a decent amount of emotional sense. But after Cassidy murdered David, I found myself wondering why Jenna and Yukiko weren’t more distrusting of their newfound group. It reads as a bit of a disconnect. Another big thing that I’d like to see worked on is the cause -> effect way of Yukiko’s posts. When Condor has a concept in mind (see: Yukiko’s reaction to David’s death) he takes more risks with formatting and post structure. But I find Yukiko’s posts to be very much vanilla flavouring - dialogue, action action, some introspection, dialogue - without much variety. I’d love to see Condor spice it up some, and not just with formatting (Condor’s one of the champs at appropriate use of formatting) but with pacing, dialogue placement, and flow.

Something that I think detracts from Yukiko’s story is that her narrative could feel very stunted, much like her dialogue. However, unlike her dialogue which is intentionally stunted because Yukiko is still not the most fluent in English (Which is another quirk that I was fond of), her narrative seems less involved, less interested. Before I go on to that though, a quick snippet on Yukiko’s kill of Stacy. I’ve already stated my opinion on Stacy’s side of the whole shindig on the wiki, and I think much of what I said there applies to Yukiko as well. It’s forced and doesn’t have a lot of strength to hold up the actions and thoughts of either characters, which I thought was unfortunate considering that Yukiko was someone who did nicely when jelling with others. I feel this carries on to her next thread, Crowds, where we also come back to the stunted narrative. Yukiko is, understandably, withdrawing herself away from Jack and Jenna, but that also isolates herself into her own world which does not make for a flowing story or any kind of development. It just sits there, simmering and stubborn. I think this is fixed up a bit in her death thread where Yukiko is actually better as a...menacing piece for Jack and Jenna to debate on, but again, she does not get involved until the end. It’s also similar with Stacy’s death scene and that it feels forced just for a simple push. All in all, Yukiko could have been for a fairly decent read, but I think some recurring problems really killed her growth as a character.

That’s pretty much my bottom line, too. All the pieces were there for Yukiko to stand out, but there were enough little niggles for me to drag her down from ‘good’ to ‘decent’.

Well, that was certainly easier than riding a bike!


And like riding a bike, we’ll probably forget to do this for another few months. Byyyeeeeee.

Favorite Quotes

Naft:
Quote:
 
”GET OUT!”

Once again, Condor displays how it’s done in regard to formatting. While the post itself has a few pacing and flow issues, the repeated thoughts and stuttering, stammering narrative as Yukiko tries to get a handle on David’s death works really solidly, punctuated by a three-times-big-bolded get out. Cool stuff!


Persy:
Quote:
 
"David... thank you."

From the very first thread no less, I think this shows everything that was nice about Yukiko in her early run: It shows her personality while still staying rather natural and showing good effort.

Final Grades:
Persy:C
Naft:C+
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NotAFlyingToy
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Naft and Persy's critiques are more insightful and colourful than Doc's. Pass it on.

(P.S - if you are Doc and you read that, I am joking. If you are not Doc, I am not joking)

Critique: Meera Steele

U-RAH. I’ve been wanting to do a critique on the day a character died for a while now, but never got the chance to till now. Feels nice man.

The sick and twisted mind of Persona Persivelle, ladies and gents! How about you get us started on Meera Steele Battalion while I contemplate the heavens!

Okie doke, my opinion on Meera can be summed up in one word: Solid. But anyway, Meera is nice to see as Watcher does improve as they continue to write her. There’s the common pitfalls of a new handler in sotf, the dialogue of other characters in posts, the narrative can come off as really wooden at times, etc. However, Meera is also supported by another common trait amongst newer handlers, and that is that Watcher has Meera’s actual character down to a point. Watcher knows who Meera is as a person,and that allows her her own quirks and buttons and what not.

I know that there were a lot of people (myself included) that kind of grumbled about early game threads because they all felt same-y. However, after going on back through and reading these kids for this very thread, I’m noticing that a lot of the griping was likely just because so many were being bombed in all at once, because I’ve yet to get grumpy at an opening thread retroactively reviewed. Just some food for thought! As to Meera - I have to agree with Unpy! Meera’s a classic case of studying the evolution of a character growing as the handler grows too. She’s always had a strong voice and characterisation, but what really improved as she went along was her narrative - helped in no small part by those that she encountered. Garrett Wilde and Rosemary Michaels being two fairly notable names and faces on the island that Meera had significant contact with. Her story is a somewhat slow build, but it picks up speed with each new thread she enters, and almost always contributes significantly to scenes, even as a somewhat background voice.

Mmhm, I find that Meera works well as a team member in the Joey-Rose-Mer trio. (I feel like give that group a name. The Three Wise-guys.) She seems as a good strong middle man to Rosemary’s more tactical side and Joey’s adventurous portion, creates a nice balance within the group. They have a plan and everything! I do want to call out one of your posts, however:

Rosemary
 
Venice was the blow that hit hardest.

Meera
 
Of all the deaths, Venice’s hit her the hardest.


Reading those two posts consecutively...it was a bit distracting, and I think it’s fair to say you could have took some time to pretty it up a bit so they were less identical.

If I have one critique of the group itself, it’s that the group dynamic doesn’t hold too well by its own. Rosemary’s by far the center stage of the show, and so Meera and Joey kind of fade to the back of the room whenever it’s just the three of them together. When there’s something to actually do - face down Paulo after Becca died, confronting the softball girls - I feel like Meera comes out as the full force that she is as a character. But the scenes where it’s just dialogue and milling about don’t resonate well with me. Meera seems a character that’s dictated by what’s going on around her as opposed to her own personality, and that lends itself to a somewhat lopsided reading experience. I also think that watcher plays it a little too safe for my liking in terms of post content - the only really cool stuff I saw was shorter posts to kind of mask, temporarily, what Meera’s thoughts are on a subject - best seen with the Rosemary/Joey/Meera sequences. Where watcher does play with length and pacing, I found myself enjoying it immensely, but there aren’t too many narrative risks taken. I’d love to see more of those thrown in.

Mmhm. That about covers everything for me. Also, I keep picturing her wearing glasses for some reason, it’s really weird.

What kind? Like, hipster?

Black wire frames.

Nerd.

NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Favorite Quotes

Persy:
Quote:
 
"I'm not suggesting we give up," said Meera. "No matter what, that's not an option for me."

Mm, really voiceful dialogue, stuff like this was really great osee when it showed up.


Naft:
Quote:
 
Survival of the Fittest...guess I'm not the fittest, then.

She hoped—

Let me just soapbox here for a moment, and say that normally, I really don’t like this kind of thing. The whole long, drawn out death, the realization that everything was going to be alright, the forgiveness and wonderment of finally being given rest. That type of death doesn’t appeal to me at all. But, purposeful or not, watcher in night took the formula of ‘realization upon death’ and basically twisted and transformed it. Instead of a villain character redeeming themselves upon death - which is far and away the most common theme we see in these types of deaths - we see a generally good natured character filled with self loathing and near hatred for their actions on the island, resulting in them being denied not only final words, but final thoughts. The only thing I would love to see more in this type of thematically sound concept is stronger language - watcher had the arc and the style down pat, but the language wasn’t harsh or biting enough, needed to really be beefed up so we could see it. Powerful, powerful stuff.

Final Grades:
Naft:B-
Persy:B

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERD.

I fucking hate you so much.
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Heya, while it's on my mind, would it be possible to switch out Chase for Ian? It'd be highly appreciated, given that he's still alive to benefit from it. :)
Constructive criticism is always welcome! Feel free to send me a PM if you have any pointers or feedback you'd like to share!

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Vyse
 
Heya, while it's on my mind, would it be possible to switch out Chase for Ian? It'd be highly appreciated, given that he's still alive to benefit from it
A very, very, very late response, but here: No, sorry, we aren't allowing swaps. This applies to anybody else who was thinking of asking.
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Critique: Juhan Levandi

We’re getting started with Juhan Levandi! Now in the interest of full disclosure, I haven’t read Mischief Managed again in regards to Juhan, because I’ve had it up to here with that thread. I like the experiment, love the bold step forward, acknowledge that there’s good writing to be found within, but I can’t bring myself to read it again when I’ve read it a few times prior.

I hate the multishots and everything about them. Okay, now that that’s out of the way, Juhan! Juhan has not done a whole ton to capture my interest, and I really do think that’s his biggest flaw. He always seems to be in the backstage and off to the side, and I really don’t know who he is as a person because of that. I get that he’s nice and wants to help people, which are actually pretty rare qualities in V5 right now, but that novelty isn’t really enough to keep an eye on him.

Here’s my big beef with Juhan, and it’s partially not his fault: He feels very much like he hasn’t done much. Like, this is Day 8 of SOTF, and Juhan’s not gotten much traction and is very much hangin’ around in the escape’s shadow right now. He’s definitely got potential, but right now it’s nearly all potential without much meat and plot to supplement that.

Yeah, the thing is, Mara, Juhan isn’t bad. It’s just he’s not been able to do anything at all, and that really affects him. I judge a lot of things on how it feels to revisit them, and Juhan does not have a lot re-read him value to him, unfortunately. There are nuggets here and there that help swallow the rest of it down, which I’m not quite sure is worse or not then had he just had nothing at all to him. I’m going to disagree with Naft a bit here and say rather then there is potential, I feel there was potential. As it is, Juhan has just been gone for too long, and he’s really only know showing some bloom so late into the game. Regardless of the hows or whys, that’s just what it is.

I don’t think it’s necessarily a situation where he’s irredeemably sunk, mind you - but where I do find a lot of fault with Juhan is that if there is a good grasp on his character, we haven’t seen a lot where it’s shown off. Juhan hasn’t had to make big leaps of logic or have his values questioned and challenged in a way that would make for a big character development - he’s seemed to just have existed, and at this point in the story, that’s a pretty huge red flag. You’ve taken a pretty decent step recently to correct this, but it may just be too little, too late.

I swear V5 is gonna give me an existential crisis or two by the end of it. All the characters existing and not existing, gah…

It reminds me of my last girlfriend.

We really should find a different burying place, by the way. The Chuck E. Cheese is starting to smell funky.

Oh, it’s not like anyone will notice.

Favorite Quotes

Naft:
Quote:
 
That was perfect. But now it brought about the risk of being blown up any second. The fact that he managed to keep up this charade for even a day was miraculous. But he was scared that he might slip up and screw everyone over. And he couldn't afford mistakes.

I think this highlights a good amount of development, and sets the tone for Juhan going forward - the hard-bitten determination and grit.


Persy:
Quote:
 
"Bella, don't worry. No matter what happens, we're always going to be there for each other. I promise.”

This was just a nice little piece I found, and I figured I ought to highlight it since it actually is a well put quote in context.

Final Grades:
Naft: C+
Persy: D+
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I already thanked you guys for Carmina's critique in chat, but I feel I should do it here also. Oh, also with Juhan. It's really, really nice getting an opinion on both of them, negative or positive, and also super helpful. I actually have plans with him, as in him actually doing stuff, although whether or not it makes up for him just existing or not remains to be seen. But again, thank you guys so much!
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Critique: Hansel Williams - Un's Commentary

Back in...Jesus Christ. November of last year, when we started this whole thing on a spur of the moment, Naft and I still had critiques from our solo days. We decided it'd be only fair to do those before the new ones, sorry for the wait by the way kekeke, which doesn't seem bad at first. The tricky dagger in that is Hansel Williams, one of Naft's characters in V5 for those of you who live under a rock/don't read V5 at all, was on my past queue. We didn't think much of it at the time, crossing the bridge when we come by it sort of deal, and put him along with the normal kids.

When we did need to cross that bridge...well, you can find it yourself in the OP, but we basically made it a gag episode. We were in another of our dull periods, if I recall correctly, and hadn't done much. Not wanting to leave the audience bored and ourselves rusty, we decided to switch the order around for a critique that would take only about an hour or so in exchange for treating those swapped around extra special (looking at you Vyse, you'll get yours). Without a doubt probably the dumbest thing we've done and could be considered a jump the shark moment for this entire thread, but goddamn if it wasn't the stupidest fun we had. I think that's why I still read it sometimes, just because it makes me laugh sometimes and reminds me of how fun this project really is.

It's also rather telling, I feel, about how both me and Naft feel about Hansel, although obviously to an exaggerated extent. Naft has always been humble about Hansel, and tends to shrug off the attention he brews, especially as most of it's only been praise. I love Hansel. I may have not read as much as some, but I think I'll find very few who would say Hansel is not one of the best kids in V5, even all of SOTF. I encourage you to, before or after finishing this critique, to start from the very beginning and read Hansel, no matter how long it takes.

But right now I'm rambling...oh right. I always felt like a piece of kaa-kaa after it though, because I never gave the proper critique Hansel deserved. Naft was the very first person to give me a subjective critique on one of my characters, and that is also something I still read sometimes because it meant so much to me for someone to tell me what I was doing right and what I was doing wrong. Naft never even bothered me once to ask if I was ever going to get around to a real critique, and that's the kind of patience that deserves to be held in awe. Even if it was just because he forgot, it still mattered a lot to me as I keep putting it off for whatever reason. That's just not right. It's been almost a year since Naft asked me for that critique, and I'll be damned if I wait any longer to actually do this when there's even the smallest chance that somebody would have doubts about Hansel's quality, so let's actually get started on this.

Hansel, son of Jim and Molly, a man with no face, is a concept that could have easily gone wrong if handled by anybody else. A strong, silent, cowboy from texas and old fashioned and out of date morals and beliefs? You're goddamn right everybody was giving Naft, the new kid on the block at the time, some serious side-eyes with this guy. But despite all that, despite the doubt and the assumptions made, he got in this shindig. I would just like to say if you think there's any chance of Hansel just being another southern stereotype and a hyuck-hyuck farm-boy just based on his profile and his dialogue, you're way off. His beliefs aren't there so he can be a strawman and someone you can hate easily, he's not a jerk to antagonize people, and he's not existent just to make fun of people. It's all part of who he is as a character.

Sometimes, Hansel isn't even an antagonist in the scenes he's in, though he's had his fair share. Even in Pre-Game, the (in)famous lunch thread with Garrett Wilde, he's just sitting there eating a sandwich when someone decides to be a dick to him and gets decked in the face for it. What's amazing about that though is that it nearly reflects his game on the island. Hansel is, without a doubt in my mind, a villain in V5, but one who's created that way. People don't like Hansel. He's an asshole. What factors into this though is that this seemingly gives leeway for the other kids on the island to literally scream and shoot at him. Much like Garrett, who meats a much deadlier but mirrored event later on, Hansel retaliates. Some times are more justified then others, others not nearly enough justification could excuse what he's done. There are times when he's strictly malicious, but also times where he's acting out fear and self defense.

Hansel is overall, human. He's complicated morally and mentally, he's violent and afraid, he's timid and paranoid. It's complex is what I'm saying here. It's a very Freudian example of character development, for a term I'm probably misusing, as it's so lovingly crafted by the events in his story, the people he meets, his surroundings that shape him. This can be attributed to years of experience in writing characters on Naft's part, and it shows. There's so much practice and care behind every line, it seems like everything was scripted from the start. Hansel has always had a plan behind his theme and motifs, and I think that's why he's always been great, even in his lesser moments.

Hansel is not perfect. No character is. But he's pretty close, I'd say. Hansel, more then just a character, has been a constant in SOTF for me. Whether I fell back in love or fell out of it with V5, or just had a bad day I could always say "Man, at least Hansel is still good" and have it be true. As V5 winds down, and it comes closer to endgame and people start thinking of winners, I want everyone to have Hansel in consideration. For 2 whole years this crazy cowboy has kept me entertained, and I'd be so very sad if he were just up and gone tomorrow.

He may not always be my favorite, but he may just be one of, if not the, highest quality characters the site has ever seen, alive or dead and I couldn't imagine V5 or SOTF without him and I never want to. I don't think there's anyone who could have written another character to fit Hansel's niche in the game, so to have him to read at my disposal is something I'm very grateful for in my SOTF-career.

His dialogue when he stutters can be a little annoying at times though.


Favorite Quotes

Un:

Quote:
 
You could be wrong.


Taking a page from Naft's book, I decided to showcase a piece of Hansel's narrative rather then any dialogue. Such a simple sentence that's pops every now in then really finds it's place within context, I think it's an overall powerful and thematic line that's important to Hansel.

Final Grades:

Un: A+
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We miss you, Persy.

Come back.
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Paige/EP/Plush, they/them pronouns pls thanks :3
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NotAFlyingToy
Feb 28 2017, 04:09 AM
We miss you, Persy.

Come back.
A-fucking-men ;_;
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Feb 28 2017, 04:27 AM
NotAFlyingToy
Feb 28 2017, 04:09 AM
We miss you, Persy.

Come back.
A-fucking-men ;_;
*sad scree*
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NotAFlyingToy
Feb 28 2017, 04:09 AM
We miss you, Persy.

Come back.


RIPercy :,(
Constructive criticism is always welcome! Feel free to send me a PM if you have any pointers or feedback you'd like to share!

Character #1: Boy #37 Ian Williams - Now with 55% less self-insert.
Designated Weapon: Polaroid Instant Camera With Film (Enough for 8 photographs)

Past - | 1 | 2 | (Current thread - Birds of a Feather)
Pregame - None
Island - | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | (Final Thread - Glass
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Character #2: Boy #66 Chase Rodriguez - Adopted from Pippin.
Designated Weapon: Silver Pill Box Containing Three Cyanide Capsules

Past - None
Pregame - | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | (Last seen in - Diversions)
Island - | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | (Final Thread - Drawing to an End)



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