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The collars
Topic Started: Nov 9 2010, 06:26 PM (2,426 Views)
Rocky
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Okay, since I just remembered this was here and everything I'm going to ask this formally, as it has been discussed in chat numerous times.

What are the explosive capabilities of the collars? So far it's been left as "up to the writer", but this is probably one of those things we need an official ruling on. Do they decapitate, or just blow out a chunk of the throat? There have been multiple occurances of both happening, and I feel that an official ruling on the exact nature of the explosions is needed.
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Crash
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The nature of human anatomy and its variabilities in itself dictate that there cannot be one official ruling, because:

- Every person is built differently, be it general size, bone structure, resilience, etc.
- The exact force of the explosion cannot be assumed to be uniform given that radio waves are erratic in nature, and
- The circumstances of each explosion are different (tugging on a collar tears it slightly away from the skin before it explodes, while DZ detonation ensures it's still right near the neck, and etc.).

Therefore, leaving it to the handler's discretion is the only appropriate course of action.

If this involves some sort of "let me get the collars off" plot mechanics inquiry, that has to be handled on an individual basis on idea's submitted to the staff team, who will make a mandate on its validity (or lack thereof).
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natlei was sleeping in her bed when someone came thru her window "get away rapist" she said still half asleep and hit one of them in the head with her liucky frying pan then went back tyo bed them men the injected her with a sedative and carried her off
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Rocky
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This was simply a question to see if there was any type of formal explanation, since it is often brought up in the chat. Now that I read this, I understand the reasoning for leaving it up to the writer. I suppose you can close this them :3
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Nadir
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Hummm... there is a question on the collars that has been bugging me as well recently. I just wanted to ask: Imagine that one character´s collar is about to explode (not because of a Danger Zone, but because he pissed off Danya in some way, broke some cameras, messed up with one of the other terrorists, tampered with his collar, take your pick...). The thing is, he or she decides that, since he is a goner, he is at least going to take someone with him. So he basically embraces himself to the guy he wants to kill (maybe even making the effort to put his neck with the collar at the height of the opponent´s face as to inflict as much damage as possible), until the collar explodes. Now, do you see a death like this happening or do you think maybe it´s fantasizing too much?
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MurderWeasel
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The tough thing is, the collars are shaped to apply almost all explosive power inwards, precisely so that there's no shrapnel damage to those nearby. Blowing up other people is bad for ratings. You might be able to do something with the heat, but if you're getting that close, you might as well just grab their collar and yank while you're at it.
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chitoryu12
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The question of this came up again about two nights ago in chat. I happen to know a tiny bit about explosives, so I'll come in on this.

The ring shape likely won't be a very good shaped charge, so there's a good possibility of minor fragmentation. Not exactly something that would kill anyone standing nearby, but enough that if the collar is very close to another object or person, there's a high chance for damage. The heat, concussion, and fragmentation (if the collar is placed within about a foot from the enemy's face) would cause instant, likely permanent blindness and a number of bloody wounds and burns (my guess is second degree) along the face and neck that would have to be quickly treated.

Should the collar be pressed against the face, it's pretty much guaranteed death; along with severe shrapnel damage shredding the face, the concussion has a good chance of driving bone fragments from the skull into the brain.

So yes, you CAN kill someone with your own collar. Yes, it's preferable if you're that close to either stab/shoot them to death or tug their own collar off as well.
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Un-Persona
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hmmm...say a character starts strangling another character, would the collar interfere or does Danya (or Greynolds) know if someone's being strangled?
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MurderWeasel
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Hiya!

The collars are fairly rigid, so strangulation attempts would probably be better either above or below them. To set a collar off requires a lot of pressure, usually in a concerted burst (one quick pull or sharp jerk was established to set off the V4 collars; slower exploration/light tugging, however, did not).

That said, the process is mechanical, and, especially in light of V4, it is very unlikely strangulation would get a collar deactivated, however temporarily.

Of course, the collars are getting a redesign for V5, so this info may change. ;)
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Un-Persona
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Ah, Thank You, I was just wondering because i was reading Jimmy Brennan's Last Thread, and I was just wondering how Alex White's Neck Didn't Go KA-BOOM.
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MurderWeasel
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Hahaha, yeah. There have been several incidents of people strangling each other without collars going off over the versions, and I think maybe one where the collar DID blow, and, if I recall correctly, it was because the guy specifically yanked on it trying to detonate it.

That said, I haven't read all of V1-3, so I can't say for sure that this has only happened once.
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Grim Wolf
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Since this is already in place, I'm going to hijack the thread for something that's been bothering me. It's a small thing, easily ignorable, and even if the answer is a resounding no it won't affect my interest or sense of fairness at all.

Escape attempts now have a possible cost of death associated with them outside of the character's intentions. I don't want to accept this, but it makes sense. However, I'd like a sense of randomness in detonations as well. A small thing--a roll for one out of a thousand, or one out of ten thousand--that the collars are going to malfunction and not detonate as they should. That the materials are inert.

The only reason I bring it up is that now we strictly operate on the terms of the game--thinking outside the box is no longer an action we can back off of if it will cause death, since the consequences will happen and we'll be blind to them. A random chance for the collars to fail would make me feel more comfortable with the process, since it would make it more equivocal. And maybe that way escape attempts wouldn't be quite as all-or-nothing--a character's actions could modify the chance of triggering an explosion from one in a thousand to one in five hundred, or one in four.

Anyway, it's been on my mind, so I thought I'd bring it up.
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MurderWeasel
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This is an interesting idea, but I don't think it'd be practicable, for a few reasons.

First and foremost, on an OOC level, the addition of a risk of death to escape plots came about to balance some serious issues in past versions. Basically, there was no risk to attempting to get out, meaning that there was nothing to discourage handlers from trying again and again. This, in turn led to a ridiculous number of escape plans of varying degrees of possibility, most on the lower end. In my opinion, the current rule should've been around for ages, but unfortunately hadn't really been thought out.

Moving beyond that, the practical issues I see are as follows: it's been established that, to as great an extent as is possible, the terrorists do test each collar individually. This means that the odds of one slipping through while defective are very low. I'd say we're talking possibly even lower than a 1/10,000 chance, given the established efficacy of the collars.

This applies only to things that would actually detonate the collars. I suppose a totally defective collar slipping through would stop the terrorists from detonating it at range as well, but by the same token it would also stop a character from being detonated in a DZ, or if somebody grabbed their collar.

In effect, putting such a situation into practice would mean either a. rolling every time a character got into a situation in which their collar might go off, which would involve slowing the game down a lot (rolls need at least two staff present, and the ideal is three including an admin) or b. pre-rolling the collar functionality of every character in the game, which would be a very awkward situation for staff, who would (on the unlikely offchance someone actually hit a 1/10,000-100,000 chance) have to keep quiet about it.

Basically, as I see it, the payout is very low compared to the work and time needed for it, especially since it largely boils down to the potential for rewarding handlers at random to an even greater extent than normal.

I'm not a fan of modifying odds based on character actions either, because anything that won't turn the collars off full-stop will make them explode. Similarly, taking preparations that tip off the terrorists may result in collars getting popped before any action can even really be taken.

As always, staff will be honoring any attempts that would work within the established constraints of the collars and the game. As I see it, that's a pretty good possibility for reward, better than random odds. We have an established list of things that will not work for escapes (and it is pretty long and extensive!) but I am also very confident that not everything has been considered. I'd rather see any escapes which occur come about through channels of ingenuity rather than luck.

I speak only for myself here, though, and this is not a staff ruling, just my thoughts. :)
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MK Kilmarnock
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Yeah no, agreeing with Toben. Just in case we wanted to do that whole 'see what the other staff members think' thing.
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Grim Wolf
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I understand, and that's fair. I'm going all-out with my own escape attempt in-game, but it just seemed a little skewed based on the fact that our characters are sort of racing against their inevitable death anyways. However, when you put it in those terms, it seems much more acceptable. One point of clarification, then; is there a larger benefit to escape attempts now that they can longer be attempted ad infinitum? Would a successful escape attempt, in effect, act as a roll null, since it carries with it a chance of death anyways?
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V6 Players

Tara Behzad: "They don't get to decide how I die."

Lizzie Luz: "I don't want to go."

Alex Tarquin: "No more masks."

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MurderWeasel
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I'm not entirely sure what you mean by acting as a roll null. A successful escape attempt would not make a character immune to getting rolled while they were on the island (in fact, depending on the situation, they could end up in a lot of trouble). A character who managed to escape entirely, though (as in get beyond the terrorists' reach) would presumably be safe from retribution, and thus would not have to fear rolls. Also, if a character managed to get their collar off, they'd be able to avoid a few typical rules (like DZs and the risk of getting their collar popped). Most likely, they'd have to contend with a V4-style troubleshooter squad unless they managed to get out of the reach of the baddies.

Also, depending on the situation, an escape attempt could potentially allow a character to save other characters as well (a la V4's rescue), which is a fairly significant benefit.
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