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Mass Effect Mafia Game Thread
That and pushing Inge at that point was basically asking for a no-lynch. And that's assuming I'm letting the stuff about missing the deadline slide (and I am letting that slide, can't really fault Ricky for that).

Mass Effect Mafia Game Thread
Downgrade MK a couple levels because logic is mostly bullshit. 'Would rather mislynch a vanilla townie than a bulletproof' doesn't make much sense when the bulletproof isn't gonna be absorbing shots anyways. Scum can just let the bulletproof sit there and endgame them instead of bothering to NK them.

Mass Effect Mafia Game Thread
MK if this results in a no-lynch I will...um. All threats will be ineffectual, won't they? Howzabout 'I will be gravely unhappy with you and shake my fist angrily'.

Mass Effect Mafia Game Thread
Please don't no-lynch; unless you're confirmed town or strong town, I will auto-scumread you if you don't put down a vote.

Mass Effect Mafia Game Thread
Gonna be gone for the rest of the day. Will switch votes if the boogie train fails (assuming I get back before the day phase is over), but really guys please vote boogie.

VOTE BOOGIE 2017 PLS

Mass Effect Mafia Game Thread
@frogue: what's your preferred lynch today?

Mass Effect Mafia Game Thread
@Boogie, Flare: Will greatly appreciate contributions so that we can sort out which of you is scum and which is town.

@Inge, Brackie: Townreads, scumreads, any reads? Would appreciate anything you have to offer, at this point.

@VoltTurtle: I'd like a general reads list. If you don't have time, explain your best reads and then list the rest, without explanations. If you've already explained the read, no need to re-explain it (though if you have additions to make, make them. Also, mention that you've already explained the read). I want to know where you're situated relative to everyone else.

Mass Effect Mafia Game Thread
@Random: Can I have a general reads list? You're probably the voice I trust the most besides Toxie, who...yeah.

Mass Effect Mafia Game Thread
I think the possibility of Inge being town with a weak claim and a typo in it outweighs the possibility of there being two bulletproofs in a game with a confirmed doctor, nigh-confirmed JOAT/inventor protections, nigh-confirmed commuter, and a suspicious vengeful townie claim. I also think it's outweighed by the possibility that Grim is just really, really, really deluded town.

I'm not certain, but I'm more certain about it than almost anything else.

Mass Effect Mafia Game Thread
Read List on Everyone Remaining (within the categories, order doesn't mean anything; Ricky is not necessarily more towny than Yugi just because he appears first in my 'strong town' category):

Literally Confirmed Town

Toxie: Duh.

Strong Town

Randomness: Presence of medigel means claim is either a safeclaim or the real thing, receiving the investigation on night 1 means it's almost certainly the real thing, having an investigation in a game without an SK and also giving that investigation to me instead of scum? Inventor, especially equipped with a free NK, are also not power roles you'd expect to see on a scum team anyways. All this adds up to overwhelming circumstantial evidence in favor of their being town.

MK Kilmarnock: Ricky's said a couple things that made me raise my eyebrows, but has also given off some solid town tells. He's investigated as no result, and has corroborated that with a commuter claim. If there's no godfather, change this to strong scum. Otherwise, giving scum a godfather, an ascetic, and a commuter safeclaim for the ascetic strikes me as an excessive amount of anti-investigative power (though given how many investigations town has at their disposal this game, it's not entirely impossible...but I still think it's unlikely). Looks worse if Deamon turns out to be town. Note that the commuter claim can be tested by shooting an NK at him: if he's really the commuter, he lives; if he's not, he's scum, he's lying, and he dies. Not advocating for that at this time: we have better uses for our NK's.

General Goose: Doesn't make much sense for scum to have a nexus for the same reason it doesn't make much sense for them to have an ascetic. Same caveats re: possibility of no godfather and possibility of multiple anti-investigative roles, though. At least one of him and Ricky are guaranteed to be town, and probably both are town. The weirdness of nexus and post restrictions makes me feel pretty good about his claim.

dmboogie/Flare: Once one of these flips scum, we can almost certainly count on the other being town. Of course, it's possible that they're both scum and doing a gambit where one sacrifices himself to make sure the other one look like almost-confirmed-town, but the way their particular conflict played out makes me think this is unlikely.

Yugi: Already went on about him at some length, but if there's 2 scumteams or an SK he's fucked himself over, and there's no way he can be scum if there's only one scumteam: no way is a singular scumteam gonna get 2 kills per night.

Nulltown

Brackie: Acting like his prickly townie self. Wish there was more to analyze, but I'm putting a light townread on him for now.

Fogue: I actually like the crappiness of his flavor claim: if he's scum he's godfather, and godfather usually gets the strongest of the safeclaims (setting aside possibilities of gambits, WIFOM, etc., and yes, those should be accounted for). If a godfather flips at any point, upgrade to confirmed town. If Ricky or Goose flip as scum, upgrade to strong town. The only reason he's sitting in nulltown rather than strong town is because he made a crapton of bad pushes (and defended Prim) over days 1 and 2.

Nullscum

Inge: Getting at least one weak safeclaim is typical, and I think this might be it. Combine that with the typo (admittedly, could've been part of the original claim), the sense in giving the weakest safeclaim to the least active player, and the case on Inge looks decently solid. His behavior's basically null, though. If you're town, please speak up.

Deamon: Has been weirdly quiet. Claim doesn't match up with the sheer number of anti-kill roles town seems to be getting: a doctor, a JOAT with a protection, an inventor with a protection, two one bulletproof townies, a commuter, and then also a vengeful townie? This is also the weakest anti-kill claim that has been given, besides the bulletproofs: Random and I confirm each other on the medigel, doctor's dead, commuter has an investigation to verify. Looks considerably better if Ricky (commuter) flips scum.

VoltTurtle: Here by default, basically. Did scummy stuff, acknowledged the scummy stuff, nothing's happened since to really remedy that. Other than scummy stuff that's already been discussed, her behavior's null.

Strong Scum

boogie/Flare: Probability of town getting a duplicate power role is already very low, but combine that with the number of other anti-kill roles running amok (in a game with a large number of vanillas, no less), and it's practically guaranteed that one of them is scum.

Grim Wolf: Not even the most deluded townie would be willing to tunnel this hard. Not only maintaining doubt on me but outright scumreading me when there are literally zero situations where I can be scum (unless a PGO/bomb/other killing role does come forward, in which case there is a really unlikely scenario where I can be scum) is either the most anti-town behavior from a townie I've ever seen, or it's scum. That, and he's been inconsistent for the sake of image.


Mass Effect Mafia Game Thread
Boogie/Flare is a more surefire thing than Grim.

Like, look at it this way: if we lynch boogie and he flips town, no biggie, we lynch Flare next. No need to worry about LyLo. If we lynch Grim and he flips town, then there's a 50/50 chance that we'll lose if the next phase is LyLo, depending on whether we hit boogie or Flare. Like, as I see it, boogie/Flare is something that is best taken care of at least two days before LyLo, so that we have room for error if we lynch wrong. The possibility of the next day phase (meaning day 4) being LyLo is relatively small, but significant. I'd rather not take the chance.

Mass Effect Mafia Game Thread
EBWOP: basically the entire first quote can be bolded, shrug

Mass Effect Mafia Game Thread
Grim
 
You think this our best lynch, let's pull the trigger. But if boogie flips scum, my next target isn't Flare: it's you, Zetsu, for all the reasons outlined above. And if you flip scum, I'm gonna be looking real hard at fogue, MK, and Flare, and encouraging every other town-aligned power role to do what they can to hamstring you.


Grim
 
At this point my case is simple. If boogie flips scum, you're 100% exonerated from any suspicions of any kind on my part. At that moment, barring multiball, all possibilities point to you being Town. If boogie flips Town, then all your other actions made in regards to this lynch do raise some questions. If boogie flips scum, pursue me to your heart's content, and I'll defend myself as best I am able, understanding that you basically have to be down.


Zetsu
 
Grim flip-flopping on how hard he's gonna scumread me (earlier, he said he'd hard-gun for me, now he's mitigated it to a side-eye) if boogie flips town is sketch. Changing stances to seem more reasonable without explanation as to why. Image-focused. Grim, I'm gonna gun for you hard after the scummy bulletproof claim flips.


Grim
 
Oh hey cool Zetsu are we gonna keep mischaracterizing my statements, because that doesn't read as Scummy at all. So when I originally stated, "If boogie flips Town, I'm gunning for you," and outlined my reasons why, that was scummy, and when I further clarified that if boogie flips scum, that would more-or-less exonerate you, you also decided that was Scummy. Man, it's almost like you've decided to come after me and are looking for evidence to support that action, rather than looking at evidence and seeing what action you should take. I wonder what you could call a person who bends the facts to support their case?


Relevant stuff bolded. Who's mischaracterizing Grim's statements again? (It's Grim). Once again: Grim stated he'd hard-gun for me if boogie flipped town. Then he changed his stance and said that if boogie flipped town that would 'raise some questions' about my play, which is a much lighter stance than making me his next target and 'encouraging every town role to hamstring me'. I called him out on it/asked him why his stance has changed, he says I'm mischaracterizing my statements, conveniently totally ignoring my actual question (to be clear: I don't care what his stance on me is if boogie flips scum, stop pretending that's the end-all be-all of your second quote).

Another thing: he disengaged when he ran out of hypothetical situations where I'm scum, hasn't provided me with more situations (other than the thoroughly ridiculous one where there's a still-unclaimed PGO/bomb even though there is literally no reason for them to not claim right now because doing so would at worst nab one scum and at best solve the game for town), and he's STILL scumreading me. Done with considering his views. He's scum.

Mass Effect Mafia Game Thread
If I can wait to pull the trigger on Grim y'all can wait to pull the trigger on Inge. I'm practically sure that Grim's scum and I still think taking boogie/Flare is the safer option.

Mass Effect Mafia Game Thread
Prefer an Inge flip to a no-lynch, but would vastly prefer a boogie/Flare flip. Reasoning is simple:

1. One of boogie and Flare is practically guaranteed to flip scum.
2. We hit LyLo in as little as two days.
3. Rooting out the scum player in the boogie/Flare thing could take as many as two days.
4. If we get Inge first and he flips town, it could take as many as 3 days to nab scum, and LyLo could occur before then.
5. We can hit Inge after getting rid of scum in the boogie/Flare duo.

tl;dr even if you're 75% sure that Inge is scum (and I'm not), unless you think that both boogie and Flare are town it's still better and safer to get boogie/Flare first.


Mass Effect Mafia Game Thread
Grim flip-flopping on how hard he's gonna scumread me (earlier, he said he'd hard-gun for me, now he's mitigated it to a side-eye) if boogie flips town is sketch. Changing stances to seem more reasonable without explanation as to why. Image-focused. Grim, I'm gonna gun for you hard after the scummy bulletproof claim flips.

Turtle: Thoughts on Grim?


Mass Effect Mafia Game Thread
No idea what I meant to write when I wrote 'Hear h'

Mass Effect Mafia Game Thread
(here's a hint: there's no paranoid gun owner, and there's literally no possibility of my being scum)

Mass Effect Mafia Game Thread
Okay, Grim, let's play a game: WILL THE GODDAMN FUCKING PARANOID GUN OWNER COME FORWARD

Scum already won't target you because if Grim's right we already know who you are. Meanwhile you'll probably get to expose an entire scumteam, assuming Grim's right. Worth it on every count.

Mass Effect Mafia Game Thread
Quote:
 
Oh you're right I'm definitely the first one to suspect that one of the claims is hiding the PGO role to-


Why is this even relevant?

Quote:
 
We're allowed to quote our Role PMs. I don't think there's any rule saying we can't modify those quotes if the mood strikes us. Maybe that's one of the reasons I actually like being allowed to quote your role PMs: because if you were Scum, it would allow you to create much more compelling lies.

Again: I've repeatedly conceded that the most likely scenario is that you're a town-aligned JOAT. All through my original post, in fact (as you've pointed out) But that I think your reactions to pressure and the instructions you give to Town are bizarrely scummy, which leads me to consider fringe possibilities. Your response to this is to continue your aggressive response to pressure and to pretend everything you're saying should be treated as gospel truth.


Somewhat legitimate, but still bullshit.

1. There are 2 passive-killing roles that I know of: PGO and bomb. Neither are bulletproof. If Prim targeted them and died as a result, they should have died as well. They didn't. Unless doctor protected them, in which case doctor would die too if it's a PGO. Hilariously, this means that there is a fringe possibility where you're correct.

2. If there's an active killing role out there who shot Prim, they would've counterclaimed by now.

3. So let me get this straight: I, as town, am scummy for dismissing possibilities that I know to be incorrect? You questioning my word is one thing; expecting me to question my own word is just plain absurd. Expecting me to NOT want to shut down things that I know aren't true is absurd. If you want me to consider the possibility that frogue's godfather, fine. If you want me to consider the possibility that I'm scum? Why the fuck would I do that as town?

4. You've been pushing fringey stuff from the beginning, don't pretend you haven't. Yugi claimed vig? Scum gambit. Frogue investigated as town? Godfather. Zetsu claiming to kill Prim, investigate frogue and MK? Maybe it's a scum gambit??? I get wanting to make sure that town doesn't miss blindspots, but here's the thing: instead of telling us 'oh we need to keep this in mind' you insist on chasing it. Hear h

5. Counterpushing you for a push on me that doesn't make any fucking sense isn't scummy. Assume you're me, assume you're town: wouldn't the guy casting suspicion on you look like scum or misguided town when you have 3 night actions to back up your claim?

Quote:
 
And by the way: all of my scenarios are in direct response to questions you yourself posed to me. I didn't pull them out of my ass: you asked, "how could this possibly be true" and my response wasn't "HERE'S WHAT'S ABSOLUTELY HAPPENING" it was "well, since you're asking, it would go something like this:" and now you (and fogue, don't think I haven't noticed) are treating my answers to your questions as theories I'm clinging to in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, and then objecting where I see potential scumploys in your instructions to Town and your pursuit of boogie over Flare.


You committed to your theories when you said 'going after you after boogie, zetsu'. And I ask those questions in the first place because you keep on insisting on your theories.