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V4 Part 2 Mafia Game Thread
Jan 31 2014, 11:28 PM



And you don't think for a single second that I might have been trying to provoke him? That's rich.

And in the case of number six, Naft continually changed the quotes in his posts to Scum!Ciel. That was a reaction to that.

You should do better research Persy.
Posted Image

I'm also not buying any of this. This, once again, seems like you're back-tracking.


"I've actually been null reading him the whole time."

"Disregard the first part, I was just trying to provoke him."

There is nothing about your play that suggests this is a logical progression for you. Your play is very reactive. Very in the moment. You don't seem to put forth long-term plans like that. If you'd said you got caught up in defending yourself, that'd at least be believable, but this doesn't sit well with me.

V4 Part 2 Mafia Game Thread
At the risk of going full WIFOM, Naft doesn't line up as a mafia kill to me. He had enough scum reads that he could be a good lynch push, especially since he tends to get caught up in spider-webbing out plans and lying becomes less and less acceptable as the game goes on. He seems more likely to be a Vig kill since he was helping push the Boogie lynch, or a serial killer.

Slam flipping town isn't too surprising beyond his panic attack towards Vyse. He's been reading more null to me since then, and I can't really think of much to be gathered from that since it seems like he was mostly being town-leaned or null read.

I'm not sure if Naft saved someone last night, or we had a one-shot role, or what. It's also possible two kills targeted the same person. We'll need more data to get that.

Ciel, were you blocked again last night?

((Garrett Wilde Continued from Young and Beautiful))

Reaching the rendezvous point had been a challenge. Sneaking around was even harder with two people. It'd been the first time he had to think about anyone else staying with him since he'd separated from Meera and Joey.

'Separated.' That put an interesting spin on things. It sounded less like conscious abandonment and more like an accident. The sort of language he used to distance himself from his guilt was oddly fascinating.

These sort of self-aware musings were coming more frequently now that he had Bella in tow. He felt sharper now that concerns for her safety weren't constantly trying to tug his attention away. His focus was now purely on the plan. Very little else mattered. It was almost strange to him that he hadn't really caught up with Bella yet. Five days was the longest they'd gone without talking in...ages. Neither of them had much to say, though. They didn't want to talk about what happened. Not yet, at least.

He held her hand gently as he led her towards the pond on the map. He could see someone in the distance. "That's Matt," he whispered back to her. "He's part of this. He'll have some things I need." As they drew closer, he used his free hand to wave up at him. "Do you have the paper?"

There was a pause after he called out. A cursory glance around the pond indicated that they were alone.

"Where are the others?"

V4 Part 2 Mafia Game Thread
Mostly because we're down to the wire, he's been less than active, and his only claim so far is townie so if he's telling the truth we don't lose much, and having a day where we accomplish nothing and land another three kills at night is going to be super-frustrating.

V4 Part 2 Mafia Game Thread
I was having trouble deciding whether Espi was mafia or just jumpy town. Normally I don't want to get into meta-reasoning with swaps, but Zabriel is also reading as consistently scummy to me, so that's a factor to consider. I think Boogie is still our best lynch both because of momentum and information, but especially if Boogie flips town I want to look into him tomorrow.

V4 Part 2 Mafia Game Thread
Vote: Boogie

I will say I'm getting some scum-reads from Zabriel, and if Boogie flips town I want to look into him more next day-phase. Grim is also pinging my radar, though that may be because Grim almost always reads as scum to me, with the ironic exception of last game.

Do You Know Who I am?
Jaq went from helpless damsel to crazy fucking psycho in record time. Everything about her response was making Alda more uncomfortable. This wasn't right. Where was her weapon? Where was Joachim? Who the hell was Grace?

The name froze in her mind. It didn't mean anything, but the way Jaq was acting about it sure did. That phrasing was the worst part. Nobody else had to die. What was that supposed to mean? The fact that Chase seemed to be completely ignoring her hysterics made the whole thing seem more suspicious. Had Jaq picked up a new partner? Neither of them looked armed, but Chase seemed insistent that they go somewhere else to get out of the rain, almost like he was trying to lead them somewhere.

Her face went hard as she stood beside Iselle. Kathryn had already abandoned them towards whatever trap Chase and Jaq had planned, and that was fine. At least she was in a place to back them up if something went wrong. Right now, all her attention was focused on the pair in front of her.

"Shut up Chase. Nobody goes anywhere until she explains exactly what happened to this Grace she keeps babbling about. In case you forgot, she's a fucking murderer." The cat rocked back and forth at her side as she glared down at both of them, watching for the slightest sign of hostility. Reach for a weapon, she challenged silently. Run. Move a goddamn inch. I fucking dare you.

Young and Beautiful
Garrett should have felt warm and relieved as he pulled Bella up off the ground. He should have felt fulfilled and confident as he whispered to her again and again that everything was going to be okay. The tears in his eyes should have been from joy that she was still alive and safe, despite everything she must have been through in the last five days.

But he didn't feel warm. He was cold. He didn't feel fulfilled. He felt empty. His tears weren't tinted with relief, but tainted with disappointment, because this time he really was lying. He couldn't promise that everything was going to be alright. All he could promise is that things were going to get much, much worse before they got any better. That they were both going to see and do things they never thought imaginable before this place let them go. That if they did make it out alive, they would never forget everything that had been taken from them while they were here.

Early on in his education, Alexander had instilled in him one of the core tenets of rationalism: That which can be destroyed by truth should be. It had been easier to adhere to when dealing with abstract thoughts and concepts, things which couldn't really be destroyed or damaged, merely discarded. Now, though, truth could quite literally be their destruction. The yawning maw of inexorable hopelessness that surrounded them had nearly swallowed them both up. He couldn't risk that again. So as he wrapped his arms around her and held her close against his chest, he also wrapped them in a comforting shell of deception. He clung to her as tightly as he did his faulty notions of control, order, and salvation, because together they were all he had left.

He made his promises knowing that they would be broken, and hoped that he would get a chance to earn her forgiveness. For good measure, before he gathered his things and led her away, he whispered one more promise in her ear.

"I love you, Bella..."

That, at least, wasn't a lie.

((Garrett Wilde Continued in Pre-Game))

V4 Part 2 Mafia Game Thread
Grim Wolf
Jan 26 2014, 08:22 PM
@Doc: Joke voting doesn't seem that useful to you? Then can someone tell me how the hell we ended up with 45 pages of Day One arguments?
Not joke votes. Three insane claims, at least two of which turned out to be lies. That would be how we ended up with 45 pages of day one argument.

V4 Part 2 Mafia Game Thread
I'm confused by the Boogie train if it's anything other than poking at inactives. Deamon and Slam's logic for it lines up to me, Zabriel's doesn't. I'm willing to throw in on it if we don't get anyone else, but analyzing early joke votes doesn't really sit well with me as a useful, firm base for inquiry.

I'm in right now, but it looks like trying to reload in from the board link is broken for the moment.

V4 Part 2 Mafia Game Thread
You must have missed the parts where I was gunning after Penguin, Deamon and Vyse. You must have forgotten when Penguin told me to stop being such an ass because I remember you waxing on about PR being on or something. I don't know. That sounds like something I would forget about after fifty pages.

There was already town momentum after all three of those targets before you showed up. I'm not forgetting them, they make my point. You don't stick your neck out, you follow the train.

Where you've been wishy-washy is that you don't really stick on any suspect past their expiration with everyone else. I can't think of anyone you're looking at right now who doesn't have other momentum behind them. You're train-hopping a lot, and while I can't confirm that's what Naft means by wishy-washy, that's the read I'm getting. You just seem to chuck in with whatever has the most traction at the moment, and that reads as scum trying to blend in.

the fact that he is taking free pot shots to suggest that Ciel is scum, by way of knowing more that he shouldn't, doesn't ring well with me on top of what went on yesterday.

I'm not really sure what you mean here, Slam. "By way of knowing more that he shouldn't?" Do you mean jumping to hyping the conclusion that there's a mafia roleblocker without bringing any information about who it is? I'm not really sure how that isn't scummy. We know there's probably some form of roleblocker on the scum side, because I can't think of a game we've had in recent memory where there hasn't been one. Outing that you've been targeted by one doesn't make sense from a town perspective, because it confirms you have a blockable power and shuts you out of the game without really giving the town any new information other than "This incredibly common role could be in the game."

It makes a decent amount of sense as a desperate scum play, though. If we assume he's being blocked by scum, we know he's not mafia, and we know he's not among our night-killers, which basically makes him confirmed town barring an increase in the kill count or him being a cult leader or some such. It pumps up his town-cred without actually doing anything useful for the town, and that always makes me suspicious.

SotF Murdercast
I like this thing. This is a good thing.

I actually found MW and Rattle decently easy to tell apart, but that was mostly because of speaking style and anecdotes XD Weird question: Are radio drama suggestions limited to V5 proper, or is pre-game up for grabs as well? I can think of a couple threads there that I'd be interested in seeing.

V4 Part 2 Mafia Game Thread
Ha. I completely forgot Skraal was bulletproof!

So that explains where one kill N1 went, and that cements the idea to me that we're dealing with a standard Maf/SK/Vig, unless someone can think of a reason V4 would favor multi-ball with mafia factions.

It is entirely possible that Decoy targeted Ciel both nights. I was discounting it because Ciel claimed his role wasn't of importance and the flavor implies Decoy was following an investigative role, but we've ceased playing mafia and started playing Lying Liars Who Are All Going To Hell For Lying: The Game, so I suppose that's feasible.

In what way was I wish-washy, Ciel? I don't recall any opinion changing significantly other than my one on Vyse, which I'll admit has been pretty firmly in flux because I have absolutely no idea where to put him anymore and that inclines me towards just getting rid of him, especially since he was, y'know, on board with that plan.

As to why I'm so keen to "pin things on" Ciel, it's because he's playing in a way that strikes me as very panicky and fumbling. His suspicions seem to follow wherever the most pressure happens to be right that second, and the only time he's really stuck his neck out was on trying to discredit Naft. This only occurred because Naft was gunning for him so hard. That makes him read as fairly suspicious to me. The following soft-claim without purpose reads exactly like Bro's to me, in that I can't see anything town gains from it. The knowledge that a mafia roleblocker might maybe exist isn't really that useful. It seems like another ploy to build his town-cred rather than supply useful information, especially since it means his night action is now toast.

V4 Part 2 Mafia Game Thread
I'm almost certain Decoy didn't target Vyse.

The flavor seems to imply that Decoy was successfully blocking some kind of investigative role and was killed while following that grind. Thus it's likely that if Ciel was blocked last night, he's correct that it's a mafia roleblocker.


I don't trust this claim. Mafia roleblocker is standard enough and claims have been suspect enough this game that we don't really gain any information from it, other than reinforcing the notion that Ciel is town. If he's telling the truth, he's confirmed to the mafia that they're hitting something other than a vanilla townie and basically locked himself out of the game except for his vote and his voice, which have been a wee bit scattered so far.

Right now, it's fair to assume we have a standard Vig/Maf/SK set up given the number of kills, though that may change depending on how kills shake out tomorrow night.

Can someone more V4 savvy than me see if any of our other dead townies would normally be considered scum flavor-wise but flipped town? This setting is so nebulous in terms of morality that it's a little bit hard for me to draw a bead there, and I'm barely literate when it comes to V4 anyway.

V4 Part 2 Mafia Game Thread
I was hoping there'd be something to report. Then again, I at least have something to tell you guys. There is a mafia roleblocker. I don't see if that's going to be much help if we don't, like, know who it is, but I can tell you for certain that any role of actual use was untouched.

I'm curious as to A ) How you know it's a mafia role-blocker and not pre-death Decoy, and B ) Why you're soft-claiming a role that would let you know you're being blocked given the history of claims this game.

Young and Beautiful
The pamphlet flew out of his pocket and onto the floor in front of her without hesitation.

"I'm fixing it."

This was the center he'd been searching. Seeing her like this made him realize the plan would work. It would work because it had to work. There wasn't another option. There wasn't anymore room for second-guessing and planning.

Everyone involved in escalating the game was responsible for doing this to her. She'd seen at least as much as he had, and it had driven her to a place where she couldn't trust even him anymore. It was the absolute bluntest way the reality of the system could have been confirmed for him, and the last thing needed to push him over the edge.

People were going to die here. That much was inevitable now. His job was to try and make sure the right people died to prolong their chances of survival.

"I made you a promise in a different place that everything was going to be okay. I'm sorry that something beyond my control broke that promise. I've spent the last few days trying to survive and make a new one, not just for you, but for everyone left struggling to break out of this."

He knelt closer to her. "I can't promise that everything is going to be okay here. I can only promise to keep you safe. To take you to people willing to work with me to get things back under control. To involve you in something that's not just going to save us, but everyone here who hasn't completely lost it already. I'm going to keep us alive until someone on the outside finds us and comes to rescue us, Bella. I know I can. You know I can. Remember..."

His voice steadily dropped into a hushed whisper as he spoke, reaching into her memory to bring back the beginnings of a well-worn mantra he'd given her in a library that felt worlds away.

"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer..."

V4 Part 2 Mafia Game Thread
Probably not, Boogie. From the Hider wiki:
The Hider has the ability to target one player each night. The Hider is treated like the target for all other roles' purposes - for instance, if the Hider's target gets investigated by a Cop, the Cop will get results on both the target AND the Hider. Alternatively, if the Hider's target gets killed overNight, the Hider will die too.

Most notably, if the Hider tries to hide behind a player who is not Town-aligned, the Hider will passively die and nothing can prevent it. In that way, Hider is similar to a Cop.

Sickness probably died in one of those two instances. As for the others, it's too early to say. We could have a vig and a second killing scum faction, or we could have a vig and a JoaT, or we could have a JoaT and a second killing scum faction. The fact that we didn't have this many kills on Night One would suggest to me that it's probably vig and JoaT, since serial killers traditionally have to kill every night and it's in the Mafia's best interest to kill every night. Given that non-elite bodyguards usually only block one kill, we should have seen two kills at least even if multiple factions targeted the same person. It's almost impossible to tell this early in the game though.

Penguin's flip surprises me, though not as much as it would have coming before Bro's flip. Beyond that, I don't really have anything new to bring yet. Ciel and Slam are my strongest reads at the moment. I think Naft makes a really strong case against Ciel, but I don't like how quickly he agreed with Slam about just straight lynching Vyse's claim on the grounds that serial killers never work in favor of the town. I'm slightly more inclined to believe Vyse after all of this, but any long-term strategy that involves a shit-ton of lying leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Plush Wants To Read Your Dead Things!
The second queue is now closed!

Fair warning, these will take a bit longer since I'm working and doing school again now. I'm going to try and get on them as quickly as I can, though.

New V5 Reduced Activity Notices
It's going to take me some time to adjust to my new school/work schedule, so my activity may be slower than usual for the next couple weeks while I sort things out.