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Mass Effect Mafia Game Thread
While I can't prove anything about Zetsu's alignment he is either the JOAT or scum has one and he's scum, given the names he attached to the abilites match what I see. What is the current reason for the Inge push by the way, I sorta have no clue right now.

Mass Effect Mafia Game Thread
Zetsu is probably toen based on the fact that he has no good reason to reveal the fact that he had a second investigation. Since I gave him that investigation, he's almost confirmed town to me.

Mass Effect Mafia Game Thread
Quote:
 


I'm a quarian. Give me a chunk of scrap metal, a circuit board, and some element zero, and I'll have it making precision jumps.

You are Tali'Zorah vas Normandy

Being one of the most technically proficient members of the already technically proficient quarians, you know your way around basic engineering. So, you're the INVENTOR. During the night phase, you may hand out one of four one-shot items to any player you wish, other than yourself. These four items are
A modified sniper rifle (free kill)
A one-time tactical cloak (free investigation)
A pack of medi-gel (free protection)
You win when all threats to the Citadel have been eliminated.

Your photo code is:
Posted Image


I have left out one ability for the sake of keeping it in the bag, but added the medigel so Zetsu can confirm that the skill exists. I trust Zestu implicitly based on the fact that I passed him the tac cloak on night one.

Gift for the Darkness
"They do, but it seems insane. Everything's insane.

He'd never really thought about it, and he never really wanted to. He wouldn't, plain and simple and the only question left in his head was why.

Because it was morally wrong? Because his reactions were as fast as a sloth captured on a slow motion camera? Because he would spend far too long agonising over the decision if it ever came to be?

And even if he needed to kill, say in self defense, then what then? Try to garotte someone to death with hemp rope? Like he could actually pull it off. It was better for everyone involved if he didn't even try really.

"I don't think so. But I dunno."

He didn't dare throw the question back at her.

Mass Effect Mafia Game Thread
I don't like this sudden wagon on Murder. I mean, while he is atop several people's scum liats, this is the kind of wagon that scum can easily manipulate, especially since it seems like town supports the lynch anyway.

Mass Effect Mafia Game Thread
In other news, maybe we should turn attention back to the main issue on the table. Murder lynch. Is it happening or not and why?

Murder
 
Scum could've also shot one or both of the folks we lost, for some reason or other. I can actually somewhat see it from a polite scum PoV--it'd be a townie removed without taking someone out of the game. Could've also screwed up and forgotten to send an action. Hard to say.


Don't really see the harm in speculating the way Grim does, but I swear I remember someone being scumread for this exact point in a recent game, but I can't remember who or when offhand. Can anyone else remember this? It's as much for personal gratification as well as pushing discussion right now honestly.

@Murder, A little bit of a separate note from the above, but can you reiterate your reasons for voting for Vyse last phase? Which line(s) of argument from last phase did you think would get across better if you had been lynched, and flipped town?

Mass Effect Mafia Game Thread
Yeah, I'm back now. Been away due to me being generally unmotivated lately. I'm gonna toss out some of my reads, for now and generally try to get the feel of this game again.

Scum:
Yugi: Has been really on the sidelines this game and honestly, I don't have a good sense of where he stands on anything right now. The fact that he flitters in here and there makes me aware of his presence in this game in a way that differs from the other lurkers.

Kermit: I'm not sure how much not liking his play comes to a dislike of the style personally and how much comes from thinking it's scummy. There's a lot of hollow posting, and presses and pushes that don't really come from any solid direction. Honestly, while I soft-defended him last phase on the newbie thing, it's also the fact that he's new that leads me to not trust him.

My read on Murder remains almost unchanged from last phase, and I'm at least somewhat glad that I wasn't misplacing my trust in Vyse. I'm not fully aboard the lynch train right now, though and I'd like more discussion on this end. Gonna talk more about this in a bit.

Town:
Zetsu: I said I would finish off that ISO but I never did. But there's enough things that make me like the play, even if I don't like the conclusions. I'm thinking nulltown, but it's a pretty tentative read.

Grim: Is playing standard fare for him, though my brain is saying a little more agressive than usual. The gut feeling says town, especially after his first post this phase.

I have other slight town reads on Goose, Ricky, Volt and Flare, but I don't have the brainpower to think about them in detail right now.

Gift for the Darkness
((Jordan Green continued from Where WIll You Stand When the Flood Comes?))

This was becoming a pattern. A horrible ongoing trainwreck disaster of a pattern.

People came, people left, and it was the two of them again.

Jeremy was dead. Nate had disappeared off in the middle of the night, like everyone else who they had met on the island. And then he'd end up dying or killing just like everyone else.

It was weird. They'd never seen any of it happen. Only what was left. Was it any better that they didn't see it? Or was it wearing down upon them more than actually

It wasn't like they weren't trying to help. And it at least felt like they were less murderous or suicidal than at least half the people left alive on the island. And yet, everybody left anyway.

What was he supposed to say to her?

It wasn't like he had any reply.

Or more specifically he had too many, each and every one wrong in their own special way, and maybe that was the point, that you could never be perfect and that sometimes you couldn't do anything but hurt someone else no matter what you did. But he didn't want to hurt anyone, and all he could do was try not to look depressed or angry, hoping that the realisation that not talking about any of this was just making everything worse would go away.

"I- N-never mind."

He was too stressed. He almost said something dumb. Stupid. Insane. Some other synonym that his tired brain was failing to think of right now. It'd had been fun being with Hazel, and maybe that was part of the problem.They couldn't get themselves out of this stupid place because they were having fun, and avoiding everyone and everything, both by fate and by choice.

Maybe he understood Nate just a little now. Too little, too late though. He wanted to break down and cry but somehow he couldn't. Not just because she was watching him. Not just because the world was watching him. No, his emotions were so much of a mess on the inside that it couldn't even cohere into a breakdown.

"Why... do they keep leaving?"

He shouldn't have asked that.

Not out loud.

He could see it in her eyes.

And it was only now he realised that she had said the same thing, only with different words.

Mass Effect Mafia Game Thread
Since the phase is technically not over I'm just gonna reply to Grim. See where that is coming from, but frankly I'm honeslty wary of lynching newbies because we don't understand their play. On the other hand, unvoting meams more votes are required, making bandwagoning even more neccesary for the lynch. It strikes a little like trying to soft push a no lynch which isn't a good thing.

Mass Effect Mafia Game Thread
@Grim Sorry, which last line? The last of the post or the last on Kermit?

Where Will You Stand When the Flood Comes?
Yeah. Hazel was way better at this than him.

They were moving away from the bridge. And that was good. They could work on solving the problems later. Always later, never now.

Though part of him didn't quite want to go. Jeremy could still turn up and helping Nate looked like it was going to be a pain.

But yeah, that part of him was probably the same part of him that came up with bad ideas.

He followed Hazel and Nate towards god knew where.

((Jordan Green continued in Gift for the Darkness))

Mass Effect Mafia Game Thread
The first half of this post was half done yesterday, but ended up having to deal with life stuff, so I haven't posted it until now.

Gonna admit straight off that my vote was more than a bit sheepy, and I have some second thoughts about it right now.

Part of the reason is that you seem to be playing in a different style from usual that seems to come with a little less thought that I have come to expect from you, such as not being too worried that your scumreads didn't make sense with your multiball theory.

Something feels off about it from a gut level at least, and while I can see how this train of thought has been shaped by Vyse though, but I see enough things in his play this game that I like myself, so I'm not exceptionally worried about scum influence, but more worried about this being a badly directed lynch.

That's the main reason for the vote, really. You seem more careless than I expect you to be, and I don't really like that. That said, I also know that that's not a straight out scum thing, and can be explained by irl to some extent, but I accept it as a likely and decent lynch.

Kermit
 
Why am I even voting for Toben anymore?


@Kermit, I'd like a clarification on this statement, really.

Not liking his recent play and this statement just compounds it, honestly. I'd hate to fall into the trap of lynching a newbie based on their play, given how often we mess up on it, but given recent events, it's the most likely switch I'd make on my vote.

We only under 20 hours left. That puts us in a awkward spot right now, where scum can bandwagon with relative safety in the name of avoiding a no lynch.

Mass Effect Mafia Game Thread
Okay, yeah, I see that Zetsu post as weird definitely. While I don't personally like the sentiment in Prim's post (I sorta feel that the summaries are a disincentive to read in a way, whether that was intendes ot not is a conpletely different thing) it doesn't seem particularly out of line with Prim. @Zetsu Is that post the only thing that led you to that read?

Agree that RC isn't unreasonably hard to decipher, just that he runs from a completely different starting point. Paige's point is kind of weird in this sense to me.

Anyways will vote now. Vote:Murder I'm still not fully on this case; I can see ways where this is town play not working out as planned, but the case des strong enough. Personally I'd prefer Paige as a lynch target, though, but I'm not invested enough in that read to push for it right now :/

Also, I still want mod clarification on what it means if we vote someone to a lynch and then back down before the end of phase.

Mass Effect Mafia Game Thread
EBWOP: post numbers refer to Zetsu's ISO

Mass Effect Mafia Game Thread
I've sort of outlined my thoughts on Zetsu in a post earlier today, but gonna expand on them a little, going through ISO. I'm phone posting so you guys don't get links, sorry. All post nbers rwfer to Zetsu's ISO.

Most notable thing is that he's been tunneling on Vyse all phase, so I'm probably going to talk about Vyse a little on the way down.

I think that he's approached from a series of very bad assumptions. His early game suspects Vyse on the grounds of Vyse backing down exceptionately fast and not mentioning safeclaims. (Post #6 and #10 in ISO) I don't see the first point here, given how Vyse tends to react when he thinks he's gone too far in argument, while the second point is a little stronger.

His early scum read on Murder (Post #12) is based off Murder not worrying about scumchat. I've already said why I disagree, but to reiterate, one, there are no clear signs of collusion, two, we don't even know if scumchat exists or ends, and there's no point handicapping town around this particular hypothetical. Remember we don't know whether there is partial daychat. But scum chat has been a major talking point from last game's first day, and the strategy of shutting down discussion until it ended was used effectively by Murder, so I can see why he's talking about it like this. See this specific bit as tunneling on an argument.

Zetsu's next argument is against Vyse saying that he expects this game to be easily breakable on flavour (Post #31). Here he argues that he doesn't expect this. Still don't think that argument is particularly strong, though I have to admit part of it is my gut agreeing with Vyse's take in this case. A little bit of hypocrisy here given how he says that Vyse seems overly sure that the game is breakable when he seems just as sure the game isn't!

He seems to miss or ignore the frustration in his quote in Post #51 where Vyse says he can't work with a town that is blocking him at every turn. His frustration seems genuine and makes me read Vyse as more likely to be town. His reading of this post also strikes me as him thinking too highly of Vyse's play in some respects.

Sort of burning out at this point so I'll wrap this post up and think more about the rest in a bit. If isn't clear by now, I'm townreading Vyse more than a little bit, while I think Zetsu is probably misguided town. He's a little to focused on how things went in previous games as specifics, and not on how play in general, or for this specific game should be. He's also doing the thing I noticed from last game where he's fragmenting into more arguments than he can handle. Given both Vyse and Murder playing quite differently from normal, his play makes most sense to me now as misguised town than scum.

Mass Effect Mafia Game Thread
To be fair I wasn't sure if Grim had gotten it either at that point. Zetsu memeing like that is also consistent with his play and isn't directly a cause of worry for me.

Mass Effect Mafia Game Thread
EBWOP: Ugh, tag failure. Should have hit preview.

Mass Effect Mafia Game Thread
I've been highly distracted this phase when it comes to posting, and my usual thinking strategy where I let my posts sit for a bit and review them before posting is backfiring because I feel like everything is outdated always. Hard for me to let my views settle when everything keeps moving.

First off, reminder that phases don't end unless there is a supermajority. Can we get a clarification on what happens if the number of votes go below what is required to lynch after a lynch is acheived? If my current reading is correct though, we don't have to worry about quick hammers this game. This makes votes a freer tool than usual.

Thinking about it, I wouldn't be surprised if there are masons in this game, given both the flavour and the weirdly defensive behavvior on several fronts. Flavourwise everything i know is from game one, so I'm somewhat trusting others thoughts on this possibility.

About shutting down discussions, in this game we actually should ignore and push some things to the side because there is honestly too much going on at once. Things are moving fast and hectic, and it makes it hard for me at least to see what ideas are current and what is outdated. Not to say that we should ignore things, but I totally see the need for priorities. It's where people are trying to place priorities that matter, knowing that priorities can differ with playstyle that matters.

For the most part I'm not seeing Vyse working from a different angle from usual, which makes me think he's by and large town, despite him changing up the specifics of the style. There's a weird wrinkle with Paige, which admittedly, I haven't thought about enough, though it's not enough to significantly pull this read anywhere else right now.

I'm feeling the case on Murder on a gut level, though my instincts are telling me to adopt a wait and see stance, despite that probably being counterproductive. His play this game seems markedly different from what I think is his usual play. Would be willing to vote for murder, but that is pending clarfication of lynch rules and vote count.

I'm leaning back towards null on Zetsu, right now. I was taking his sudden dissappearance and lack of direct defenses as a negative thing, given how combative and self defensive he can get at times, but given the fact that it was irl, I'm gonna let this slide for a bit, especially since town focus is elsewhere.

I've already mentioned why I have issues with Paige's play, (i.e. what looks like working to discredit players, especially Vyse). I've been getting a feeling from her play that it looks like she's seeking out opinion rather than directly scumhunting. It makes me feel like she's feeling for lynches, which isn't exactly something I like. I have this feeling that my thoughts on this are sort of overcompensating for last game somewhere in my head though.

Definitely agree that directing targets is dumb. No point letting mafia run about at night freely.

@Kermit Why can't this be a town v town fight? I'm leaning away from it at the moment myself, but it seems almost as likely that this is town-town to me.

Mass Effect Mafia Game Thread
So, I'm starting to lean a little towards scumnull on Zetsu. There's a weird persistence to him tunneling on Vyse, beyond the point where I think it's reasonable anyway. It feels like he's trying to cut Vyse off in a way that isn't warranted by how much actual scumminess I'm reading off Vyse.

His talk about daychat, also reads a little weird to me. I think that there's no real point handicapping town over a daychat that may or may not exist, especially since we don't know it's end date. If town scum chat lasts the full day phase we basically kill two days worth of discussion for absolutely no reason. It's more productive to assume that scum daychat is a thing that exists and play around that, than hide and hope that it dissappears midphase.

Paige is doing something similar, as noted by Toben, but the way Zetsu seems to be overly aggressive seems to go beyond how I was reading him last game. It's Zetsu for most likely scum, Paige second in my mind.

Mass Effect Mafia Game Thread
Vyse is definitely posting less words than normal, despite having his usual ungodly number of posts. The fact that he's pointing it out himself would push me slightly towards town, but it's mitigated by the fact that Toben has noted this already.

On Grim's comment, I feel that this is a thing that Vyse does every game regardless of alignment. It's a powerful tool on both sides, and definitely not strong grounds for lynching a person for trying to do it.