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Scrubs Mafia Game Thread
EBWOP:

UNVOTE
VOTE: MurderWeasel

Scrubs Mafia Game Thread
Also, thanks for the kind words throughout on my scum game, Vyse. I eagerly await chatting about this one in the fallout thread.

Scrubs Mafia Game Thread
Welp, it was a good effort, Brain Trust. I would've gotten away with it, too...

Posted Image

...if it weren't for you meddling kids.

Well played by town (you know who you are ;) ). I underestimated you guys hard and it bit me.

VOTE: MurderWeasel

Anyone can hammer if they feel like it.

Scrubs Mafia Game Thread
VysePresident
Aug 29 2015, 07:57 PM
it's the manner of someone who knows he needs this lynch. Desperately.

I think you're doing this because it's all you have left. You need to lynch me this phase to win.
One thing I want to pull up here:

Yes, I need a specific lynch that's not me to win. So do you. You're trying to frame that motivation as scummy when it's one we share.

I don't need to lynch you specifically. I need to lynch scum. Would you like to compromise on Maddie? I'm down, but I doubt you will be, since you've declared her unambiguously town on logic I find faulty. Someone else? If I'm sure they're scum, hey, fair enough. We may learn all sorts of interesting things when Imehal and Goose claim. As I mentioned when you first brought it up, if I'm sure Goose isn't town I have zero issues voting for him. I don't think you'll actually bite on a compromise scum lynch, because doing so will torpedo your fluff case when we find out who the scum actually are, but we can see how things develop.

We both need a lynch with certain criteria, and we're both gunning for it as hard as possible. Everyone left in the game is in the same boat if they know what they're doing. Town actually has less wiggle room than scum, in that scum can't flat-out lose in a single phase. Everyone should be aware of the stakes, though.

Scrubs Mafia Game Thread
VysePresident
Aug 29 2015, 09:05 PM
Heya, Goose, Imehal!

I don't want to pressure you when I know you guys are dealing with a lot of RL stuff, but since you guys are hanging around off & on, I was hoping I could get you guys to flavor claim, as per MK's request?
This is something we can actually agree on, so I'm quoting to add my support for this course of action.

Scrubs Mafia Game Thread
Cake
Aug 27 2015, 04:25 AM
Also Doug has a second ability, which I haven't used. I can investigate the dead and see which *Character* killed them. Which didn't feel as useful to me, as it's purely a flavor thing.
The sum total of Psych's explanation of his Coroner power in his claim post.

Scrubs Mafia Game Thread
Also, to everyone reading this, Vyse and I can slap-fight and generate mountains of obfuscating nonsense for years. He's very aware that I'm easy to bait in this way, and so am I. I stopped picking point by point when I realized that he was just pointing at everything I do and screaming "Liar!"

It's a really good technique for tanking verbose people who put detail into their work. It lets you overwhelm logic and reasoning via a constant stream of objections, and leaves the person being more scrupulous about checking facts holding the bag. At the end of the day, though, I'm not trying to convince Vyse or Maddie of anything. I know they're scum. Fighting scum on every point is a losing battle. So here's where I'm at:

I'm not sure who of the Psych/Goose/Imehal team is the third scum member, so for now I'll give you all the benefit of the doubt. I'm certain Ricky is town. Vyse can say whatever he wants, and if any of you four want me to address it I'll do so at length. I'm not gonna avoid reading his stuff like Doc did. I'm not gonna rule out responding if there's something particularly phony.

What I am gonna do is not sign my own death warrant via making the thread too cluttered with hyperbolic rhetoric for people to cut through the morass. Vyse has mentioned many times that town votes where the most votes are come the end of the phase. That's my right now.

I'm telling the truth, so it's in my best interests for people to read what's already there rather than to get caught up in a perpetual stream of new finger-pointing. Once again, I'm totally willing to answer anything the four players whose alignments I'm uncertain of (or whose town status I'm certain of) want me to. That aside, I'm done enabling a smokescreen. That's how I've been baited out the last few times, and I learn from my mistakes.

Scrubs Mafia Game Thread
VysePresident
Aug 29 2015, 06:04 PM
3) Cake/Psych - Doug - Cop/1-shot Coroner
One-shot? Where does that come from? Either you didn't read Psych's claim very carefully (which is odd given how "meticulous" you've been elsewhere) or you know more about his role than anyone else does.

Scrubs Mafia Game Thread
VysePresident
Aug 29 2015, 06:04 PM
2) Turtle - Lonnie: Vanilla Townie. (Bonuse: Cannot be scum unless I'm scum, becasue she didn't quick hammer me.)
It strikes me as awfully convenient that you "forgot" Maddie's claim in such a way as to distance yourself from her. Especially since it's been brought up multiple times so far.

Scrubs Mafia Game Thread
MK Kilmarnock
Aug 29 2015, 05:46 PM
Also you say Vyse was trying to force a lynch without me.

Vyse was, to my recollection, begging for my vote, so it was clear he thought he needed me. Now, your response to that is 'if he was scum all he needed was your vote to win'

But why would he go after me when he's got Cake who has already been following Vyse and is, as far as we can tell, confirmed town?

(on that note, are there any other claimed town power roles other than cop and vig? That's it, right? Everybody else is either unclaimed or vanilla townie?)
Who says Vyse has Psych?

Only Vyse. If he does, well, it's game over. That sucks. Unless there's a two-man scum team which is basically the worst balance ever unless they have some sort of insane power spread or Psych is scum and we didn't have a cop, which I guess is possible and could explain the way Vyse falls back on him constantly but seems really weird to me given his flavor claim.

But you need to realize that we don't have Psych's view. Only a very biased recounting of it that makes a ton of assumptions regarding his allegiance.

I've linked Vyse's lynch-force attempt two or three times now, and he's admitted to it. Not much more I can say there. He's spinning it as trying to capitalize on scum misplay. Well, I prefer to rely on good play to bad and to not cut out claimed townies. If you want, I can point out exactly where it was and what progression it followed and why I read it as such bad news again.

Scrubs Mafia Game Thread
MK Kilmarnock
Aug 29 2015, 05:33 PM
Let me pose this as a question: Suppose Maddox is scum, and is probably godfather by that extension. Who are the rest of mafia?
I have no idea. As I've said a few times, I don't know the flavor well. I was actually hoping you might have some clues there.

Scrubs Mafia Game Thread
VysePresident
Aug 29 2015, 03:45 PM
I honestly think you & Goose have to be scum at this point, because I'm absolutely certain Turtle is Town. (Remember, if she were scum & you'll allow me the assumption that I'm Town, she had the opportunity & motive to quickhammer during that phase were I was self-voting. Turtle isn't stupid by any stretch of the imagination, and it's very clear from her post that she had an understanding of the gamestate. From an outside perspective, she is either 100% Town, or my scumbuddy. There is no middle ground. A ScumTurtle could have lynched a TownVyse to instantly win the game. She did not do so. This combination is now impossible.)
Yet it's unreasonable that I don't extend her much benefit of the doubt despite knowing you're scum.

See this is the issue with Vyse's argument. He calls me out and then makes effectively the same point but draws the opposite conclusion.

Of course, there are also tons of reasons not to quickhammer as scum. The easiest? With Grim still in the game, town could actually turn things around if they got a nightkill on scum. It was not a mathematically certain win. That is objectively untrue.

Scrubs Mafia Game Thread
VysePresident
Aug 29 2015, 03:45 PM
He's called Turtle out as obviously scummy for voting him "without anything but a me-too line of reasoning", and left no room for alternate interpretations. Now that she's not only explained her viewpoint, but done so eloquently & powerfully, he's twisting her words into false contradictions, with no regard for the fact that his previous claim of her 'echoing me without reason' was false.
I'm going to respectfully disagree with this interpretation of Maddie's response. It's not good. It's fumbling, and you're backing it up because you're allied scum. You're the stronger persuasive voice in this sort of situation and are trying to keep her out of the spotlight as much as possible.

Scrubs Mafia Game Thread
VysePresident
Aug 29 2015, 03:45 PM
For what it's worth Imehal, I'd like an elaboration on what part of Murder's play seems strongly Townish to you at this point. While I've come to this conclusion via knowledge of my role PM coupled with Process of Elimination, there's a lot in his play that stands out to me. He's lost all pretense of paranoia & uncertainty - all the things he was 'worried' about before have suddenly become 'obvious scumtells that anybody can see through.'
Hindsight works that way. It's basically your own argument. Why does process of elimination only work in your favor?

Scrubs Mafia Game Thread
Catching up here. Comments forthcoming. Gonna be a bit sporadic this evening, FYI, but we have a few days left so it shouldn't be a huge issue.

Scrubs Mafia Game Thread
MK Kilmarnock
Aug 29 2015, 01:26 PM
I would like to point out what's got me even more on the fence is that I've been considering the flavor lately... and if Kelso isn't the mafia (and we fuckin' KNOW Kelso's town because Frogue was Kelso), then this is a janitor mafia.

Toben, remember how in the very last game you forced a quickclaim on me and I gave you the villain of the show?

You are the most antagonistic character to JD in the entire show. Oops.

The Janitor makes JD's life a living hell for eight years. The dude is petty as balls, a habitual liar who feeds everybody false information and backstories, and can pull together impossible stunts and outlandish favors from friends just to create situations where JD is miserable. He does work with Kelso and Elliot from time to time but hates most of the other doctors... especially JD. I can't stress that enough.

So in one of JD's daydream scenarios, the Janitor is not a good guy. I think you're the Janitor because he's a major character. I don't think you're town. Shit, after reacquainting myself with the show (it's been years), I actually believe that Vyse is Carla (because Carla has to be in this game) AND Carla is probably town!

Even without all that, my plan after lynching Vyse would have been, invariably, to come after you. I believed you both to be scum. I still don't completely trust Vyse because all of his play has been, to me, very scummy and not at all beneficial, but he's got the flavor of Carla backing him up (I cannot see Carla as scum and, if she is, there is seriously something wrong with Unpy's characterization of the Scrubs crew). I still wish we took out Vyse earlier so I could have shifted my attention because once I've got a target it's VERY hard for me to move off of it.

But here I am. You're in a hole, brother; I suggest you start talking your way out of it.
Well, here's what I have: this is clearly not the JD-is-town mafia since the dude isn't in the game. I have no clue what the flavor is. I can't argue it or make anything out of it because I don't know jack about Scrubs. I can point out that if I'm scum I'd presumably spend a bit of time to make up a claim that's not someone who's super nasty and scummish, that scum almost certainly have safe-claims anyways, and that I didn't quick-claim at all (I'd be insane to spend no time on a fake claim after offering to put it out hours before you requested it). Even without safe-claims, it would have been incredibly easy to whip something up since we have only four people unclaimed--I could have even gone, "Yeah, I'm that Snoop Dog dude Doc talked about and I'm town." I looked at the wiki enough to know my guy's not on great terms with the rest a lot of the time. I could go into a huge spiel abut how you know I'm more careful than that and plan in advance and so on, but I don't think that's particularly convincing or useful.

I think judging Vyse off is flavor is a massive mistake. All it takes is a set of fake claims (like what I gave scum in Star Wars mafia, and what we spent a long time discussing in the wake of last game) and scum can claim vanilla townie for years with whatever flavor they like. I could have picked just about any character--Deamon's flip suggested some potential options if they're willing to gamble with you, Imehal, and Goose (and me, before I claimed, and remember that at one of the Goose/Imehal pair is probably scum).

I mentioned it last post, but basically the only flavor I can see that makes sense here is the new director, Dr. Maddox, as scum. The wiki tells me everyone thinks she's great at first and then realizes she's awful and unites to oust her because she fires a truckload of people. That sounds a whole lot like a godfather to me, though I have no clue who the rest of scum would be in that situation.

What I think you need to do overall is look at actions thus far, and where they line up relative to possible alignments. Look at what happened this phase while you were gone. Look at who has called in people from the sidelines to get quick-lynches or attempts at twice now. I said to wait for your input. Vyse said to force a lynch without you. The second it becomes clear that's not going to happen, he's your best friend. That's not the way of someone with town's best interests at heart. It's the way of someone with his back against the wall taking a Hail Mary shot at playing your biggest remaining paranoia.

Scrubs Mafia Game Thread
VoltTurtle
Aug 29 2015, 11:33 AM
This claim could not be more convenient. You shot RC but that leaves a suspicious lack of a scum kill. Even with all of the protective roles that were in play, only two were active at any given point. RC obviously didn't get the protect night one, and I have extreme doubts that the doctor just managed to guess at the scum kill. With your role's nature of blocking you from a follow up kill if you hit town comes off as extremely convenient as a way to make your role seem more genuine and less convenient even though you could have totally just said you were roleblocked night two with Flare confirming that he blocked you. As for randomly getting blocked when wanting to shoot Vyse? I doubt it. I doubt it so much. All of this comes off as way too convenient and "unlucky" for you playing vig. I don't like it, I don't like it one bit.

Before I go on about what I think here, Toben, you are severely mis-characterizing my town play. As town I shoot from the hip and set fires without any sort of reasoning knowing full well things might not go down so well. I do so simply because I know that I'm really bad at this game and actually putting my thoughts into words and because I absolutely do not care. As town I throw caution to the wind and go for broke regardless of what happens. I know I can't convince people who disagree with me, I know that I will probably get mislynched or shot at some point because I come off as scummy because I do things without really giving reasons why beyond gut instinct. I used to not do this but I threw that away after playing a ton of Epic Mafia and realized that I'm so bad at putting my thoughts on who's scum and who's not into words. As scum, I'm cautious, quiet, I mince words and go over my posts to make sure they make sense, and I try to stay in the background. If I was scum I honestly wouldn't be doing the things I'm doing now because setting fires and starting arguments draws attention that I will always fold under because I'm super bad at lying (see: Buffy mafia).

Now for the topic at hand:

Honestly, Toben, the thing that's most making me want to pile on to you this phase isn't your play. If I was looking at this from an outside, 100% logical perspective I would think you are 100% town. This is what I did in PR mafia. You played me super hard in PR mafia and I was shocked when I found out you were scum. But I learned from that. When you play scum you respond to everything, you keep a loud but at the same time sorta in the back voice, you try to lead town one way or another with your statements that sound good assuming maximum certainty in your actions but would ultimately lead to town's downfall if they continued unhindered. You tunnel hard on people who are targeting you, you set up potential back ups and statements and things you can point to to go "oh yeah I can't possibly be scum because why would scum do this" in a very deep game sort of fashion. You do everything possible to come off as a good townie and set up scenarios where you can easily explain away criticism by pointing out that your play completely lines up from a logical perspective. As a news flash: townies don't have their actions make perfect sense. Townies don't have everything line up. Townies contradict themselves and don't recall things said several phases ago to prove their innocence. At least, that's how all the townies I see and the townie I play end up playing.

As town you are never certain of anything. You leave room for reasonable doubt even in the most obvious cases of someone being scum. You lay down your vote but you plan ahead in case you are wrong and make sure that town still has options.

This is why when you stated that you could lynch Vyse and then shoot me the following night, right there convinced me 100% of your current alignment. I don't believe that town Toben as the vigilante would make a shot when town is just going to go to another LyLo phase and therefore potentially lose the game if he was wrong. Town Toben would have things in the back of his mind saying "What if I'm wrong about this? I don't want to doom town's chance of victory all by myself." Town Toben wouldn't take matters into his own hands as the vig without proper input from the town and shoot willy nilly in a LyLo phase. All of this is scum Toben talking from a perspective of absolute certainty. Talking in such a way that doesn't leave room for doubt in how the game is going to go down if we just do exactly what he says. Talking in such a way to convince town that he's right when he's really leading them astray. Your lack of care, your lack of all the things I always see from town Toben... that's what's making me distrust you.

And all of that probably didn't sound very cohesive. Probably just sounded like an info dump I typed up but then didn't read over because I had no reason to because I'm 100% confident in my status as town. And you're probably going to respond with more rhetoric and guesswork but insist that you're right and act entirely certain just because.

(Also if I'm coming off as mean, sorry! No hard feelings were meant.)
My restriction on vig is pretty common. We've had it before. Also, your focus on soft-defending Vyse stands out pretty hard.

Maddie
 
Before I go on about what I think here, Toben, you are severely mis-characterizing my town play. As town I shoot from the hip and set fires without any sort of reasoning knowing full well things might not go down so well. I do so simply because I know that I'm really bad at this game and actually putting my thoughts into words and because I absolutely do not care. As town I throw caution to the wind and go for broke regardless of what happens. I know I can't convince people who disagree with me, I know that I will probably get mislynched or shot at some point because I come off as scummy because I do things without really giving reasons why beyond gut instinct. I used to not do this but I threw that away after playing a ton of Epic Mafia and realized that I'm so bad at putting my thoughts on who's scum and who's not into words. As scum, I'm cautious, quiet, I mince words and go over my posts to make sure they make sense, and I try to stay in the background. If I was scum I honestly wouldn't be doing the things I'm doing now because setting fires and starting arguments draws attention that I will always fold under because I'm super bad at lying (see: Buffy mafia).


This is a really convenient excuse that still dodges the issues I've brought up.

Maddie
 
Honestly, Toben, the thing that's most making me want to pile on to you this phase isn't your play. If I was looking at this from an outside, 100% logical perspective I would think you are 100% town. This is what I did in PR mafia. You played me super hard in PR mafia and I was shocked when I found out you were scum. But I learned from that. When you play scum you respond to everything, you keep a loud but at the same time sorta in the back voice, you try to lead town one way or another with your statements that sound good assuming maximum certainty in your actions but would ultimately lead to town's downfall if they continued unhindered. You tunnel hard on people who are targeting you, you set up potential back ups and statements and things you can point to to go "oh yeah I can't possibly be scum because why would scum do this" in a very deep game sort of fashion. You do everything possible to come off as a good townie and set up scenarios where you can easily explain away criticism by pointing out that your play completely lines up from a logical perspective. As a news flash: townies don't have their actions make perfect sense. Townies don't have everything line up. Townies contradict themselves and don't recall things said several phases ago to prove their innocence. At least, that's how all the townies I see and the townie I play end up playing.


I think the issues here should be clear. This is pretty blatantly playing on the paranoia surrounding me and totally fails to take into account how I've actually played the game. Certainty? I've been certain one phase--this one. I always respond to everything, town or scum. I always go back and pull stuff--this is exactly the same sort of process I went through last game at various points.

Maddie
 
As town you are never certain of anything. You leave room for reasonable doubt even in the most obvious cases of someone being scum. You lay down your vote but you plan ahead in case you are wrong and make sure that town still has options.


See, this is exactly why Vyse was pushing me as Town for the last three phases. This makes it pretty odd that your read on my being scum lines up perfectly with his for totally opposite reasons.

Maddie
 
This is why when you stated that you could lynch Vyse and then shoot me the following night, right there convinced me 100% of your current alignment. I don't believe that town Toben as the vigilante would make a shot when town is just going to go to another LyLo phase and therefore potentially lose the game if he was wrong. Town Toben would have things in the back of his mind saying "What if I'm wrong about this? I don't want to doom town's chance of victory all by myself." Town Toben wouldn't take matters into his own hands as the vig without proper input from the town and shoot willy nilly in a LyLo phase.


Except, I know I'm right. Why? Because, given the numbers, if you were town the game would be over unless scum messed up really badly. A three-an scum team needs only fur votes. Vyse is clearly bad news and he's one. You're another. Also, I think my track record as vig speaks for itself, being as it's one of the things Ricky has complained about in the past.

Maddie
 
And all of that probably didn't sound very cohesive. Probably just sounded like an info dump I typed up but then didn't read over because I had no reason to because I'm 100% confident in my status as town. And you're probably going to respond with more rhetoric and guesswork but insist that you're right and act entirely certain just because.


I'm responding by picking the points apart. It's not really rhetoric or guesswork--it's putting the pieces together based on what we know.

Maddie
 
(Also if I'm coming off as mean, sorry! No hard feelings were meant.)

I'm basically impossible to offend in mafia. Part of the game is calling each other filthy liars and honestly I'm one of the players who turns up the heat the most often because I feel that this game is never personal. No worries at all! <3

Scrubs Mafia Game Thread
VysePresident
Aug 29 2015, 03:00 AM
I'll give you the math, then. If you were a vig, you'd be RB'd tonight, I suppose.

In regards to Turtle, what I'm seeing amounts to I'm not thrilled with Vyse, but I see a lot of bad stuff from Murder

Your response? Was it to ask Turtle to explain what bad stuff she was? Was it to challenge her view in an effort to read her? Or was it to clutter the thread with a hurried push, based largely on willpower & a half-baked theory about scum bullying you, while trying to drown out any other points of view?

(Reminder: Anything I post is going to assume Turtle is 100% because she failed to hammer me earlier, when she could have done so. I don't expect others to take this on faith, but that's were I'm at personally.)

The thing about Maddie is, she's been on my list for a long time. If she suddenly pulled this when she was one of my town reads, I'd try to get to the bottom of it. With the timing as it was, it was basically a flashing neon admission of scum status. This is especally the case since when I've pushed her for detail in the past on things (like her sketchy request for a mass claim and her argument entirely founded on the idea that we trust her as a town voice she didn't respond with reasons. At all. You're acting like I suddenly decided I wasn't squeezng water from a stone, when I've been wringing it for the past few days and my hands are still dry.

Vyse
 
Guys, the bottom line I'm trying to get to here is that Murder is desperately pushing for the finish line here. He's shouting at me & trying to drown out the thread, to the point where I'm the one stepping back, despite my own ranting tendencies. :P

But when you actually take a look at what he's saying, what's left? It's a shallow pool based on hitting all my weak points. (And there were a freaking ton this game, to be fair.) He's always been willing to lynch me, and Flare, and Deamon, And Grim, and was pushing Psych hard for the manner of his claim earlier. He's looking for lynches - mislynches - not scum hunting. He's constantly let me take the lead - and the blame - while he's just nudged every single mislynch to date forward - and now he has the nerve to wash his hands of responsibility & throw all the blame on me.

I've never been quiet about my opinions. I've not tried to wash my hands of them. What I have been is uncertain and caught off guard, especially when it came to the sudden turn of the Flare lynch. I think that's what's throwing me most here, and what I'll be kicking myself for when this is all over--I kept pressure up and got caught out with a baffling town choice while I was afk.

I've given constant explanations of my processes. Vyse has given constant promises that one more phase will get scum. He's broken down his own play and then used that to defend himself. Remember that he commented on self-voting as scum tell, then self-voted, then bailed the instant the prospect of another lynch came around. His play has always been focused on one thing: not getting lynched. In some cases, that's fine--good town play, even. Unfortunately, in this one, it's been a smokescreen to hide a ton of shady stuff.

Vyse
 
His claim is the perfect mix of a convenient claim that scum would have every reason to believe is safe, and offers nothing, except a very, very convenient implication that I might be a Godfather. His arguments sound good on the surface, but don't actually touch on the situation at hand.

Actually, there's zero reason for scum to think my claim safe. There are a ridiculous amount of claims I could've made to slide under the radar given the current town situation. To borrow a bit from Vyse, if I were scum, I could've spat out something easy and non-controversial a whole lot sooner and just gotten townie cred off it. Instead, I held off because it was best for town and only shared when town asked. What would be more suspicious: volunteering a claim immediately under pressure from my top scum suspects, or waiting with a reason? If I'd done the former, you can bet Vyse would be all over me right now for being too eager to claim and therefore showing I was just waiting for a chance to get it out there.

My arguments don't touch the situation at hand? All I'm talking about is the situation at hand: this game. When I drift into WIFOM territory, it's chasing Vyse's tail. He's been all over the place all game, and of late has been using blatantly fallacious arguments about totally unrelated situations with wild assumptions to try to make his point--which he's doing by repeating it again and again because what he has on me is speculation based on "process of elimination"--which has somehow let him perfectly identify one or two members of the scum team, but still has him guessing at the third. He's pushing hard for the one vote he cares about, knowing that everyone else will fall into line after it or his last member will come along and hammer.

Vyse is the one who tried to cut Ricky out of the process of this lynch, knowing that could only work with scum on his side. He's the one who immediately jumped to the best remaining wagon for stirring paranoia the second his mislynch of choice failed--apropos of almost nothing. He's been trying all game to be the second choice lynch, and now that his favored second choice isn't working out, well, it's on to the third.
Vyse
 
(Remember, Murder's going to get the last word. Take it with a grain of salt. :P )

Preserved for fairness' sake.

Scrubs Mafia Game Thread
VysePresident
Aug 29 2015, 02:42 AM
You mean protective PRs without a vig, like what happened in OotS on a much larger scale, Murder?

Yes.

Also, Psych's power isn't useless without a vig. Let's not be silly. It's for catching scum claiming their flavor. I don't see why you'd say otherwise.

Also, the fact that you were building the pieces already isn't a point in your favor. You clearly haven't been at a loss for a plan the whole game. I've been fumbling so freaking badly, but I can call it when I see it. My push came about because Grim dropping out literally left me no other reasonable option but to believe that I've been very, very wrong this whole game.

I just can't believe that, in my efforts to improve my ability to sound confident, I actually pushed you as if you were a freaking Cop Innocent. It's Imehal V2. XD
OOTS mafia had what it had as a very specific thematic choice that also included a bunch of iffy and unconventional roles. It was super far removed from the current setup and had a lot of other wheels working within it to attain balance.

For Psych's power, there is no reason whatsoever it would be useful in catching out lying scum where he couldn't just investigate the suspect. The only way it would be of use is if the claimer had investigation immunity, and it's standard procedure for the godfather to not handle the kills, so even there it would be mostly useless.

And trust me, I'm shaking my head too. I blew Ricky off all game going by what sounded more reasonable even though I knew better, because you kept suggesting I get back into the mindset where I was looking at things with logic. Well, then by the time it all comes logically clear, it's crunch time yet again and there's always one bigger threat.

Scrubs Mafia Game Thread
VysePresident
Aug 29 2015, 02:42 AM
I'll answer this last post, and maybe the important points of the next, if that's okay. Then we'll call it a night, deal?
I'm offering a truce on the condition I get the last word. ;)