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V5 Concepts Thread
Not at all! If you want to chat concepts before actually drafting up/submitting a profile, here is a fine place to do so. :)

The Mafia Waiting List
I have no idea where stuff goes either. I just went ahead and moved the current game to the right spot and deleted the past games.

Character Comparisons, V1-5
Hey, everyone! I was looking through some old and forgotten threads today, and I found a couple interesting ones. Specifically, this thread comparing V1 and V2 characters and this thread comparing V1-3 characters. With all of this, I thought it'd be interesting to try again, with V3 all the way done and V4 basically wrapped. It can even include V5 pregame characters, to the degree that is possible on just pregame. It's even cool if you're only familiar with V5 and late-game V4, as I think there are things to be compared there.

So, can anyone find any interesting parallels between characters? Any who filled similar roles? Any who had elements that mirrored older characters, but whose paths diverged? I've got a few ideas/thoughts, but it's a bit late. I figured I'd start the thread now, though, to see what everyone has to say.

After the Battle
It seemed that Andi was upset about the food fight. Apparently, some of her stuff had gotten damaged. Cassandra, on the other hand, said she was mad because she'd come over to vent but then other people had turned up and made that hard for her. She said she'd had a bad day. She reveled in the destruction of Gray's property. And, of course, Gray just meekly stated that he was serving his detention.

Steven could respect Andi, even if he thought she was carrying her grouchiness a bit too far. He could sure respect Gray. Cassandra, on the other hand, had managed to get under his skin in a remarkable hurry. She'd thrown the first blow, lashing out at him, claiming he sticking his nose into her business. That was getting pretty personal for a reply to some polite inquiries. Steven's smile was gone. He felt a bit cold. He always felt chilly when he got mad.

He raised his right hand and rubbed his thumb and index finger together.

"This is the world's smallest violin, playing a sad, sad song just for you and your irritating and bad day," he said.

Now, his smile had returned, wider than before.

"I mean, come on. Taking stuff out on everyone else just because you're having a rough time? If everyone did that, there'd be nothing but bad days. Unfortunately, some people just delight in the suffering of others anyways. Tell me, do you keep a bullwhip under your bed?"

This was probably not the right way to take things, but Steven had sort of slid past the point of caring somewhere in there. Now, as he saw it, he was the only one standing between Gray and some really lame sadistic bullying, and he was more than willing to trade a few barbs over that.

The Mafia Waiting List
The waiting list seems to have fallen a bit behind. I can update it if nobody minds, but I figure I should check first, as I've never messed with it before.

Magic Man
The little impromptu jam session was actually rocking out pretty well. Better still, Veronica pitched her bizarre fit and stormed out instead of staying to make more of a scene. Adam wondered how she'd managed to survive until high school with the rough maturity of a three year old. Temper tantrums like that stopped being cute about the time kids could reach high enough to hit you where it hurt. He was pretty sure it was people like her who caused stories about stuff like road rage.

Well, whatever. She was out of his hair, maybe off to punch Principal Freeman and get herself and her boiling rage expelled or something. Unconcerned, Adam leaned back and ate as he listened to the music.

Atsuhiko Ayukawa
Hiya, Chrysalis! Atsuhiko's profile is a decent start, but he is DENIED pending some fairly heavy revision.

First off, all hobbies should come up in the biography as well as the hobbies list, including information on how long the character has been participating in them, why they are interested in them, and their place in the character's life. Hobbies that fall outside the norm should be defined so that handlers reading the profile can get a good idea of the character and what they like. Some of the listed hobbies are also quite unusual. My understanding of Batsu games is that they are typically the result of other activities, not an end to themselves. Also, the mention of Atsuhiko enjoying them, devoid of context, could mean a whole bunch of different things.

Next up, names should be formatted according to American conventions (First name then family name) regardless of a student's cultural origin. This is to keep the wiki in order; Japanese naming conventions cause serious and irksome issues (check out V4's Raidon Naoko for an example of this; years later we're still fixing things from time to time due to confused standardization).

At 5'11" and 170 pounds, Atsuhiko is actually dead center average in terms of height and weight, not notably bulky. I also want to know more about Atsuhiko. How's his complexion? What type of shoes does he wear? How's his personal hygiene? Is muscular, or just hefty? How much attention does he pay to his appearance? What's his overall facial shape?

The wide range of ages among Atsuhiko's siblings is quite unusual. I'd like to know a lot more about it. How old were his parents when they first had kids? Why did they spread having children out over twenty years?

This entire chunk: "His oldest brother eventually went to college, graduated, and began working for METI while his second brother eventually moved back to the ancestral family hometown in Shimane in order to be groomed to succeed his grandfather. His relationship, although fairly distant, was never cold, and everytime any brother needed help, it was usually granted (although with very little socialization). He was closest to the second son simply because he had the warmest demeanor, but they grew apart quickly after he moved away to Shimane." doesn't make much sense. What was Atsuhiko's grandfather doing? Why was his second brother chosen? What do you even mean by second brother? I'd really like all of Atsuhiko's siblings to have names, to make it easier to keep track of them. What was Atsuhiko asking for help with? Why did he grow apart from his sibling, given that they didn't live together in the first place?

Why did Atsuhiko choose to prod others into acting up rather than doing so himself?

Atsuhiko's social issues seem completely out of place for someone raised in high society, constantly surrounded by very formal social situations, and raised by people who are very tuned into social norms and obligations. This needs to be delved into in much greater depth or changed.

I'm not buying Atsuhiko's issues integrating into American society at all. Children of diplomats tend to be shuffled into similar schools, often very international environments that specifically cater to different upbringings and the like. More than that, there are tons of immigrants from different areas in schools in major cities. It makes no sense that Atsuhiko would not have anybody he could get along with. I also have no idea what he was doing with his life during this time, since none of his interests would be easily available in the United States.

The really huge issues with the profile come at the end, though. The absolutely most important part of a character profile is how they relate to their present surroundings, that is, Seattle and Aurora High School. That needs at least as much focus as the rest of the bio. I need to know how Atsuhiko interacts with the school, what he does in his free time, how he likes the city, who his friends are, how he does, etc. I also absolutely do not buy him wanting to see "America at its most perverse". Real people don't throw themselves into situations they know they'll hate unless they are masochists, and Atsuhiko would likely be very hard pressed to succeed in a public high school, given his stated attitudes and educational experience. I also do not at all like him transferring only before senior year. It, once again, does not make much sense. There is a lot of paperwork for these things, and there is no reason for Atsuhiko's parents to suddenly not try to get him the best education money can buy, given that that is how they've been throughout the rest of his life.

I'd like Atsuhiko to be overhauled so that he makes sense as a person, a member of American society, and a student at Aurora High School.

I'd also like a lot more detail on Atsuhiko as a person, his like, personality, modes of interaction, etc. He should also have more rounded advantages and disadvantages, as right now each is pretty much only a single point.

Post when you've got Atsuhiko edited, and we'll give him another look. Thanks!

Introduction Thread
Hiya, Vyse! Thanks for the kind words. V5 is absolutely still open. I also recommend you check out check out the chat and the Mini. We've got a new Mini getting rolling right now, actually.

If you've got any questions, feel free to PM me or any other staffer (we've got colored names). We hope you enjoy it here!

SOTF-TV Mafia: Fallout Thread
@penguin: I'm totally up for sharing the flavor cop rationale!

Basically, I think SOTF mafia tends to screw over the scum through imbalanced setups. Most games have very heavy emphasis on power roles, or include a lot of wonkiness. I find that this nearly always skews the game in the favor of the town, just because they have more options. I wanted to create a mafia game which the town probably could not win without doing some actual analysis. To serve that process, I removed roles which added chaos into the equation.

I gave the mafia a flavor cop to balance the fact that the mafia was actually pretty severely underpowered. Typically, a suggested game setup is to have 25-33% scum. I went with 25%, or seven players. The thing is, that includes a serial killer, who is actually a threat to the mafia. More than that, the mafia did not have a hitman in the typical sense of the role. Dr. Roy's role was actually a good deal worse than either Namira's or Renard's, because he was vulnerable to discovery by Fior (or, less likely, Kami). Giving the mafia only a roleblocker and a godfather would have pretty much doomed them, and I wanted to work a mentor in for flavor.

I chose flavor cop over something else because it's a nice utility role that has the possibility of completely biting the user in butt if they rely on it too much. I'd decided right at the start, in the balancing stages, that Holly and Slam would have exactly the same tell. This was to prevent Slam from getting blindsided by both mafia and town, given his weakness to typical investigations.

To the code: technically, it actually was made to hint that the target didn't an active power, but did not preclude passive powers. Lexi (the bulletproof) or Rocky (the miller) would've tripped like any townie, potentially giving the mafia some serious issues. Once again, the inclusion of a code was to give the mafia a bit of an edge. The town in this game had a pretty nice assortment of informative roles. There was no insane cop to sow confusion and only a single miller. On the other hand, the town had a cop, Dom (who effectively functioned as a completely foolproof cop who couldn't easily claim), and Fior. To give only the town access to information, and to such a large degree (effectively two investigations a night, one of which adds any confirmed townies to a network which can potentially include the cop), meant the mafia could end up screwed in an awful hurry.

I feel pretty confident in saying that the biggest unbalancing factor in this game was the presence of a mason recruiter, and it worked heavily in the town's favor. I thought long and hard about including the role, because every game it's been in, it has single-handedly won for the town. I included the extra restraint on the role to discourage quick claims and use as a proxy cop for the rest of the game, which is how it's been used in the past. Giving the mafia a flavor cop allowed them the potential to actually work against/ferret out the possible mason network, allowing them to pick off the more valuable members of a team if the town chose to make the presence of a mason network evident. It also allowed them some leeway when it came to fakeclaims, giving them some information to work off of without handing them actual data on unused characters.

As to traps: I do not like traps in play very much, because they work against strategy. Traps make the game more about luck, and winning games based on luck is not very fun. On the other hand, the threat of traps is tons of fun, because it makes people play more cautiously. I very specifically warned only that there were no lynchers or jesters to leave open the possibility of a bomb, because this would make the mafia more careful and would overall make nightkilling still seem a bit of a risky prospect.

As to PGOs: I don't like them so much. They have this nasty way of completely messing up one side or the other, and usually they mess up the town. A PGO could've easily wiped out several of the town's biggest assets in one night phase, and that was not what I wanted at all.

For other mafia roles: framers only work notably well when a cop reveals and shares their plans. Otherwise, it's a bit of a stab in the dark. I'd given the town a double-voter, and I didn't really want the mafia to be able to walk over the town too much during the day phase. I see the day phase as a pretty important time for the town. For most players, it is their only chance to act, and anything that messes that up needs to be considered very carefully because it in effect is a weakening factor for every unpowered player.

I like lie detectors a lot. The original draft of the scenario had one. I didn't have a character who fit it, though, and the town already had a lot of powerful information roles, so I switched it out for a double-voter.

There were a lot of ways this could have gotten VERY bad for either side earlier on. Worst case, I think the town could have won in by the end of day three, if things shook down as follows:
Day 1: Penguin is lynched
Night 1: Mafia kill someone unimportant, Slam kills a mafia member, Rattle kills a mafia member, Pippin kills a mafia member
Day 2: Town lynches Slam
Night 2: Rattle kills a mafia member
Day 3: Final mafia member lynched

or other permutations thereof. Still, for the depth of things that would have to go wrong to get to that point, it seemed a decent enough gamble that that would not happen.

Slam's ten kills thing was fun, because I wanted it to be in the spirit of the original rule from TV: that is to say, it was supposed to be a total pain in the neck to achieve, kinda unlikely, but just possible enough to make rash moves look kinda tempting. You can't hammer again and again without attracting some serious suspicion, and Slam was racing the mafia in kills, too, because he could've easily lost had he missed enough kills/gotten blocked.

I feel like I've gone on a ton of tangents here and missed stuff, but the short of it is, I think the town actually had the stronger hand at the start. That said, there was a lot of potential for stuff to swing one way or another. I tried to set the game up such that no faction would be able to quickly reach a position where victory was guaranteed. I also tried for a game where the town would have to do some serious investigating/analysis to do well.

One interesting thing: I'm pretty sure the mafia got messed up hard by going after Holly. If I recall correctly, James was the proposed alternate target, and if he'd been out of the game, everything would have fallen apart for the town much more quickly.

SOTF-TV Mafia: Fallout Thread
Finally, my commentary, phase by phase. Warning, this may be incoherent and/or inaccurate and/or make no sense/frown upon certain play moves. It's easy to second guess from an outside perspective.

Day 1

Night 1

Day 2

Night 2

Day 3

Night 3

Day 4

Night 4

Day 5

Night 5

Day 6

Night 6

Day 7

Night 7

Day 8

Night 8

Day 9

Night 9

Day 10

And, with that all posted, have at. I'm really curious to hear impressions, critiques, etc. I'm also willing and available to answer any game setup questions anybody may have. :)

SOTF-TV Mafia: Fallout Thread
Next up, the night actions:
Night 1

Night 2

Night 3

Night 4

Night 5

Night 6

Night 7

Night 8

Night 9

SOTF-TV Mafia: Fallout Thread
Now, the scum:
Odile Jones (Godfather) (penguin_alien)

Vincent Sullivan ("Hitman") (Dr. Roy)

Marvia Jones (Roleblocker) (decoy73)

Madelyn Connor (Goon) (Namira)

Harold Finston Smythe (Mafia Goon) (JamesRenard)

Jared Clayton (Flavor Cop) (bacon)

Karen Ruiz (Serial Killer) (Slamexo)

SOTF-TV Mafia: Fallout Thread
Alrighty! Here's the fallout thread, including my notes on the game as it was ongoing. To start with, here are the role PMs. Please note that there may be a few empty spaces/placeholders for who's playing mafia members, as I forgot to fill those in on the text draft and need to rush now, and the info is all available elsewhere anyways.

For this post, the town:
Shawn Morrison (Mason Recruiter) (Moonlight Drive)

Mason Ross (Cop) (karsk)

Zachariah Johnston (Vigilante) (Rattlesnake)

Alexis Allwell (Bulletproof Townie X2) (Will)

Robert "Bobby" Goldman (Jack of all Trades) (Pippin)

Sidney Rice (Roleblocker) (KamiKaze)

Mae St. Clair (Double Voter) (Deamon)

Ben Grayson (Commuter) (Hollyquin)

Jhamel Thompson (Tracker) (Fioriboy)

Mikaela Warner (Doctor) (Sideliner)

Natalie Chauncey (Miller) (Rocky)

Katherine "Kathy" Clements (Townie) (CondorTalon/Will)

Brenda Hernandez (Townie) (The Sickness)

Jonas Jeffries (Townie) (Whirlpool531)

David Myerez (Townie) (Aura Master Fox)

Amber Lyons (Townie) (Laurels)

John "Jack" Lemmon (Townie) (Inky)

Axel Stadler (Townie) (Flare)

Holly Herchenroder (Townie) (Zabriel)

Jeanette Buendia (Townie) (Randomness)

April Stone (Townie) (dmboogie)

SOTF-TV Mafia: Game Thread
dmboogie: 3 (penguin_alien, The Sickness, JamesRenard)
penguin_alien: 1 (dmboogie)

With that, a decision had been arrived at. The remaining students, weary after so long on the island and convinced that their only hope was to act, closed in on their chosen target. Standing in the face of doom, the chosen one tried to turn the tide, to convince the others of the mistake they were making, but to no avail.

That was really too bad for the remaining students who weren't crazy. As they stepped up and did the deed, they noticed that two of their number had fallen behind, seemingly out of squeamishness. Once everything was done, however, once April Stone had been dealt with, Brenda Hernandez and Jonas Jeffries turned to find themselves staring down the barrels of guns held by Harold Finston Smythe and Odile Jones. There was no time for action, for heroic last stands or begging. Two gunshots rang out, followed by silence.

dmboogie, BRN2: April Stone (Townie)
The Sickness, BRN5: Brenda Hernandez (Townie)
Whirlpool531, PNK2: Jonas Jeffries (Townie)

And, with that, the game is over, the mafia having attained enough of a majority to carry the day no matter what.



Slamexo (Karen Ruiz, Serial Killer)

penguin_alien (Odile Jones, Godfather)
JamesRenard (Harold Finston Smythe, Goon)
Dr. Roy (Vincent Sullivan, "Hitman") [DECEASED]
decoy73 (Marvia Jones, Roleblocker) [DECEASED]
Namira (Madelyn Prowers, Goon) [DECEASED]
bacon (Jared Clayton, Flavor Cop) [ELIMINATED]



Hollyquin (Ben Grayson, Commuter) [DECEASED]
Laurels (Amber Lyons, Townie) [DECEASED]
Fioriboy (Jhamel Thompson, Tracker) [DECEASED]
Aura Master Fox (David Myerez, Townie) [DECEASED]
KamiKaze (Sidney Rice, Roleblocker) [DECEASED]
Moonlight Drive (Shawn Morrison, Mason Recruiter) [DECEASED]
Will (Alexis Allwell, Bulletproof Townie) [DECEASED]
Sideliner (Mikaela Warner, Doctor) [DECEASED]
Deamon (Mae St. Clair, Double-Voter) [DECEASED]
Rattlesnake (Zachariah Johnston, Vigilante) [DECEASED]
Pippin (Robert "Bobby" Goldman, Jack of all Trades) [DECEASED]
Whirlpool531 (Jonas Jeffries, Townie) [DECEASED]
Inky (John "Jack" Lemmon, Townie) [DECEASED]
Rocky (Natalie "Nate" Chauncey, Miller) [DECEASED]
The Sickness (Brenda Hernandez, Townie) [DECEASED]
Randomness (Jeanette Buendia, Townie) [DECEASED]
Flare (Axel Stadler, Townie) [DECEASED]
dmboogie (April Stone, Townie) [DECEASED]
CondorTalon Will (Katherine "Kathy" Clements, Townie) [DECEASED]
karsk (Mason Ross, Cop) [DECEASED]
Zabriel (Holly Herchenroder, Townie) [DECEASED]

The fallout thread will be up shortly. Please save commentary for it. :)

Atsuhiko Ayukawa
Hiya! Before we give Ayukawa a full critique, please make sure his profile conforms exactly to the template. Specifically, the text should flow directly from the Appearance and Biography headings. Also, use of Japanese text can cause display issues for those who do not have the appropriate language packs on their computers, so it'd be better if you removed them.

Post when you've got that taken care of, and we'll give Ayukawa a full critique. Thanks!

SOTF-TV Mafia: Game Thread
dmboogie: 1 (penguin_alien)

5 alive means 3 for a lynch. An hour less than under two days left in the phase.

Introduction Thread
Ooh, cool. I'd love to know where you heard about us, if you don't mind sharing! Also, welcome to SOTF. Feel free to give me a buzz if you need anything. :)

SOTF-TV Mafia: Game Thread
dmboogie: 1 (penguin_alien)

5 alive means 3 for a lynch. A hint under three days left in the phase.

V4 Theme Music
The new thread made me realize that I'd finally picked another of these for V4 (I'm a teeny bit indecisive about these things). It seemed weird to toss it in there with all the new stuff, though, and slightly less weird to bump this up, so I'm necroing.

First, though, a few comments and ideas. One, it's interesting seeing all these old choices, especially for characters who never made it to the game, or ones who changed a lot in play. It makes me wonder how many still fit, and how many don't work at all.

Two, in order to make this bump slightly less random, anyone have songs for their V4 kids now that it's all over? Stuff that really captures the character's game now that it's all said and done?

Anyways, back to this, I finally found a song I really like for Kimberly:

(Part of why things take me so long to narrow down is I make character playlists rather than picking single songs. I wonder if there's another thread in that. I know I'm not alone in the practice.)

SOTF-TV Mafia: Game Thread
No votes cast.

5 alive means 3 for a lynch. A bit over four days left in the phase.