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Probably not. Fansites might collect data and make their own, but making the profiles public could compromise intelligence assets of the AT by revealing the extent of what they know.

They're probably real! Just attached to profiles that look notably different.

Yeah. Also, they're not a literal one-for-one, since some things we ask for the terrorists wouldn't actually know/have on file (this is due to our "Even if nobody knows, if you the handler do we wanna too" policy).

V5 BKA/BDA Voting: June 2013
Okay, uh, guys? Like, I know this is the first context and all, but this is about why you voted for what you voted for, not slagging on everyone you did not vote for. I know nobody else can see the votes right now, but I'm just gonna go ahead and say I'm pretty disappointed in the way a few people are approaching this.

We all have scenes we don't like. A lot of us have them already for V5. Yes, that includes me. And that's fine. And saying it is fine. But if you're gonna do that, then please at least attach your name to it.

The vast majority of people are being fine, but for people who are taking potshots... tch tch. I'm unimpressed.

Ray Gilbert
B035 - Ray Gilbert

Check out the stickied topic, especially the new rules, then, if you are interested, enter bids. Ray did have some pregame, so be sure to read that too.

Please remember the priority here: handlers with no characters get first priority, with preference going to folks who've been around a while. Handlers who have characters are lower priority.

The vast majority of handlers have actually turned up and posted, so Ray may be the last inactive up for adoption for a little while, what with Mark being rolled and all.

June Midmonth Rolls
Here's a good enough place:

BKA/BDA is open!

V5 BKA/BDA Voting: June 2013
I know I said I wouldn't do this, but I'm doing it anyways.

BROseidon and Docbalance, please resubmit your votes.

Also, remember that you must give your reasons for your votes, or they will be disqualified. As they are anonymous, tracking down people who fail to provide adequate reasoning is a huge hassle, and I don't think staff is gonna bother. So be sure to give your reasoning when you post.

V5 BKA/BDA Voting: June 2013
Alrighty, folks! It is time for the first BKA/BDA of V5. I'm going to take a few moments to explain some changes that you may or may not be aware of.

First off, votes will remain hidden until the voting period has ended. This is to prevent a pattern we saw in V4, where handlers would vote more based on who they wanted to win of the characters getting votes than who they thought deserved to win overall.

Voting is, as in V4, anonymous. To vote, you must log out and post as a guest. You may not vote for yourself/your own character (and staff has a few ways to check this, and actually does). Also, please vote for the scene you truly feel was best, rather than the one your friend wrote. We get that they may be the same, but would really like to encourage everyone to really consider their votes. V4 had a lot of voting-for-a-friend going on. With the null as prize removed, we're hoping that will help remove incentive to do that sort of thing.

Votes for different deaths/kills by the same handler/character will not be compiled, as was finalized in late V4. Each kill/death stands alone.

Now, the prizes.

BKA will, as always, get you a weapon.

BDA will get the deceased character featured in the scrolling quote. The quote will be chosen by the site, through a poll, with nominations available for a short time beforehand (and yes, the character's handler is eligible to nominate quotes of their choosing). We've chosen this because it does what BDA was initially intended to do—celebrate an extraordinary piece of writing. It does not give any tangible benefit (which was the source of a lot of awfulness in BDA in V4), but lets the handler feel good about themselves and brings more attention to the scene.

Of course, this is a new idea, so we'll be seeing how it works, and welcome feedback/suggestions for changes through PMs to Help. Please note, we will not be considering any prizes that offer benefits to handlers as far as staying in the game/saving characters goes.

Also, a quick reminder: characters who miss the start of a contest, even with an extension, will no longer be rolled into the next month's contest. This is because it was leading to continuity snarls for BKA (the terrorists awarded several prizes a day late in V4) and to stalling for BDA (handlers would extend a scene to get more time to do a better job, in hopes of winning a null). With game-affecting prizes removed, we feel it's fair to enforce this rule, since it also significantly lightens the bookkeeping load for staff.

Also, remember that you must give your reasons for your votes, or they will be disqualified. As they are anonymous, tracking down people who fail to provide adequate reasoning is a huge hassle, and I don't think staff is gonna bother. So be sure to give your reasoning when you post.

Please be sure to read every kill and death before voting. Otherwise, it's super unfair to the people you skip, who may have produced really good work. We'd love to see a big turnout, but we'd prefer to see a small-yet-informed one.

Finally, a personal (that is, not staff-official) request: Please do not campaign for awards in chat. Please do not do the "Man, it'd be so cool to win BKA/BDA" thing. Please do not try to steer people towards one of your scenes if you have multiple ones up for consideration. Please do not, in short, try to influence the votes. V4's contests got very much into the realm of "This is why we can't have nice things", and while we'd love to keep the contests as a part of the site, if they cause nothing but trouble and drama I, at least, will vote against continuing them.

With that out of the way, it is time for the very first BKA/BDA of V5.

Theodore Fletcher, for killing Gabriella Parker
Hansel Williams, for killing Daniel Whitten
Theodore Fletcher, for killing Dan Liu
Joe Carrasco, for killing Jason Meyers
Katarina Konipaski, for killing Kelly Peterson
Iselle Ovalle-Vandermeer, for killing Sven Olsen

Slamexo, for the death of Dave Russell
Slamexo, for the death of Gabriella Parker
dmboogie, for the death of Daniel Whitten
bacon, for the death of Dan Liu
leAloha, for the death of Jason Meyers
bacon, for the death of Kelly Peterson
Bikriki, for the death of David Zimmer
Mimi, for the death of Sven Olsen

This contest will run for five days, like we did in the past. The announcement will be up shortly after that. This should leave us on schedule to have mid-months at, well, the middle of the month.

The General SOTF Discussion Thread
I try to give each a few unique patterns of speech, often based on their interests or time growing up. At its most basic, some of my kids curse and others don't, and those who do have different favorite expressions while those who don't use different forms of substitution. Vocabulary is a good one, too; whoever's a little less keen on their education probably gets less big words or complicated sentences.

And, at the end of the day, they sometimes still sound similar. I find adding a bit of emphasis to distinguishing features can help, though (for example, Chase is into art, while Ian is not so much, which gives Chase a different set of things that can give his situation context. He might be more aware of, say, visual stuff, lighting and so forth, whereas with his martial arts training, Ian would likely be more aware of situational stuff regarding people and positioning. While these aren't exactly voice, where the focus of a narrative lingers does form a part of voice and can help distinguish people. I'm only using your kids for my example 'cause a. I'm in threads with both of 'em so I'm familiar with 'em and b. I'm too tired to dig up appropriate stuff with my kids. Not trying to tell you how to write your characters! :) ).

SOTF Grand Map of Doom!
That is very cool indeed. I wonder how big it'd be blown up to a paste-to-the-wall size (that retained legibility).

How to Write Villains
I generally agree with Loco's points. I think withholding can be tons of fun (and your strategy is very similar to stuff I've done; I was keeping parts of Aaron's notebook in V4 that didn't get brought onto center stage until later). I always have a very good idea of kids' motivations.

That said, I don't think everything always needs to be 100% revealed. I'm still sitting on stuff that flew unnoticed in V4, just because it never really fit into any situation to reveal it. I think it's more important to keep stuff natural than to tie it up neatly, as often a final post/thread that just dumps everything can feel really forced or artificial (not saying you were suggesting doing this, of course, just noting possible situations I've seen occur in past versions).

As to players having back and forth feelings on their actions... it depends. I actually don't think it's necessary, not even for a character to be semi-relatable. The key its to maintain some variety no matter what you do, even if it's playing ruthlessly and without substantial regret.

Project: Wiki
I agree re: death order (since, yeah, it's not in the game). I'd leave it on his page, or if Riz's page ever gets completed move it down somewhere. Maybe add a post-game summary for kids who survived the island, since we've actually got a decent number now?

New League of Legends Thread
This thread is, like, a foreign language to me. All I know is play Garen and mash Q a lot, and whatever spin is (W?). ><

Project: Wiki
Yeah, I'm not at all opposed to mentioning the cause/noting it in evals, since more facts are never bad, I just don't think it should be treated as a kill. Others involved in accidents get mentioned all the time (and if I edited it to not do so, I was tired and wasn't thinking clearly). It just feels odd to note it as a kill when I really believe if no height was involved, folks wouldn't feel that way.

As to Kelly, I think yeah her neck got stabbed and/or slit. Maybe use slashed, since it's a nice middle-ground verb?

V5 Island Map
By popular demand, here is the map as its own pinned topic. Map credit goes to Mimi.

Posted Image

Project: Wiki
This is all true. I'm not sure how it lessens anything when we say that Cassidy being the direct cause of David's death.

It's the stumbled-into that killed him. While that was the case, it's sorta like what I mentioned above re: tripping and bumping someone who then breaks their head on the floor or a desk. I feel like we'd never count that as a kill, but are looking at this differently because it fits a more traditional SOTF kill archetype (a fall from a high place). Take away the height and add a hard floor, and the whole situation feels very different.

But David's death is much more direct than those. It's not an elaborate trap set up by an outside force or a contrived accident, it's a situation of A pushing B off a high building.

That Brady Bunch quote still applies too.

If it was pushing, I'd be more inclined to agree, but the pushing expressly wasn't at fault; it was the falling-into that did it. And it was pretty direct; Sarah knocked Brock on the head, taped him up, and told him she was gonna kill him eventually with the trap, the question was how long it'd take. the answer was not very.

So...I'm confused. Harry was killed by a booby trap, but one of his victims killed him, so that's why it's listed that way? If that's the case, then Cassidy should at least remained mention in David's evaluation and her own.

Harry was killed by a victim. Danya lied because the victim had already been announced as dead. There was never any booby trap at all; Danya just didn't wanna let on that he'd lied. Thus, the wiki lists the truth, rather than the IC thing, as an informational resource (the death order notes the lie, but also gives the actual cause. All other cases of lying note the real causes).

The General SOTF Discussion Thread
As to universe stuff: Yeah, it's basically a case where there's a good amount of cool stuff that could be worked with, but doing so would raise the entry bar considerably for new handlers and/or result in constant continuity snarls as it all unfolded (and inevitably ran ignored at times). On Mini, on the other hand, we can have a long-established alternate universe, so all the super pertinent information is there at the start.

It's basically a compromise to allow handlers to pop into Main without knowing the entire history of the game and universe and stuff. If you know Riz won V3, you're basically good to roll.

As to the community: Yeah, there is that, too. Also, now that we care more about realism with stuff like aiming, a gun is harder to break the game with (since, "But he missed" is usually pretty valid unless they got real close first).

Otherwise, I do agree with Shangela. There's nothing wrong with researching your weapon, adding a few juicy tidbits just for the sake of immersing your audience. .

One of my favorite details was when Mason Ross, over in SOTF-TV, set his pistol to burst fire. I had no clue there were pistols that could do that, but 'foxd did the research and spun it into a cool line and it was really memorable.

Project: Wiki
Basically, the problem I have here is that it's an awkward line. If a character tripped down the stairs, bumped into someone at the bottom, and that person fell and hit their head on concrete and died, would that be the one killing the other? I don't think so, and this is exactly the same situation except with a more dramatic fall at the end.

He didn't fall off the balcony, he was pushed. Would the announcements state that he'd been pushed and not tell who the killer was, even if it had been an accident? Would we have to discount any accidental gun discharge that ended up killing someone as well?

The issue here is the physics. Cassidy didn't push David until she had to push off him to survive; that means that both were already falling off, and that, with no action taken, the only difference would have been two deaths instead of one. If it was any other situation, then pushing off of David would not have caused him to fall. At that point, Cassidy's actions had no effect on whether he lived or died, so only the initial tripping contributed to his death.

As to gun discharges, it depends. If someone pointed a gun and pulled the trigger, then yes, that's them killing someone else. If, though, someone were to pull the trigger, have nothing happen, then set the gun down and ten minutes later it killed someone else when it went off due to hangfire, I don't see how that could be credibly counted as anyone doing the killing.

This is the part that makes the case for me. In my(admittedly highly subjective) opinion, this seems like the sort of situation that the terrorists would twist to fuel the game. If the announcements would list Cassidy as the killer(and I can't think of a good thematic reason why they wouldn't), it feels like David's wiki page should as well.

The reason I don't think that would be the case here is due to Brock in V4. For those who aren't familiar with the situation, Brock was tied up, with a shotgun stuck in his mouth, so that the only thing he could do was pull the trigger, which he then did. It was a situation in which one person very clearly set him up to die, performed every action short of actually pulling the trigger, yet was not named or credited on that technicality ("Brock Mason finally found a gun that he could operate... although too bad for him it was pointing in the wrong direction.). In this case, as I mentioned above, it's the equivalent of bumping into someone who then falls over and hits their head on the edge of a desk. It just seems incredibly weird to credit it when it's no more direct than that. In the case of weapon misfires and misuse, there was some intent/action taken in the aiming of the weapon; if, on the other hand, someone fell over and the gun in their backpack went off, I don't think that would be credited.

As to the wiki reflecting the announcements, that's not the typical way it's been handled (see: Harry Tsai, who was announced as being killed by a booby trap when he was instead killed by one of his victims) and all the stuff regarding the V3 and V4 escapes. In general, I'm not a fan of having information on the Wiki that is not correct, because it's an OOC resource and compromising that for IC reasons is not a user-friendly choice.

It seems, to me, that the entire purpose behind the "Suicides/Accidents/Collar detonations:" section is to account for edge cases, which this fits into.

Project: Wiki
Cassidy's push was to save herself, but David was already beyond the point of no return, based on Bik's death post and the physics explanation given. Cassidy pushed down to force herself back up, which was all that kept them both from falling to their death. She tripped, they were bpth going over the edge, and she managed to pull herself back to safety.

The standard I use is Brock Mason's death; if it's less direct than that (and this clearly is), then it should probably not be attributed, since the terrorists are unlikely to call it a kill.

Project: Wiki
Accident. I changed it on the death order, because it was just too removed and required several jumps to come up with her having directly killed him. She fell into him, but since there was no intent, and no direct action, only passive stuff, it's not really a kill.

It's like if Richard Han had, on his way down, also knocked loose a log and that had squashed somebody. He'd've been the root cause, but removed enough to not count.