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Aperture Science Mafia.
I was gonna be basically AWOL this whole phase so I can't complain too much here. Bah! Good luck to town, Thanks to Vyse for an enjoyable game, etc. I will catch you all in the fallout thread.

SOTF Roll Archive/Rolls-Per-Character Breakdown
Updated to the V6 halfway point, for kicks and giggles.

Aperture Science Mafia.
But since it's out there anyways...

Yep! My stance remains completely unchanged. I think Deamon's scum however this goes. If NAFT flips scum, I think we do Deamon next since obviously I'm off the hot seat. If he surprises and flips town despite assurances to the contrary, maybe I get lynched and then town gets its act together and lynches Deamon. Exactly as I've said. All phase.

re: Brackie, difficult to say. I feel worse after the win/win thing because that's the language scum use to sell bad ideas to town. "We can't lose if we cut off our foot! It's either gangrenous and we're better off without it, or we didn't really need it anyways and now we've lost some weight!"

Aperture Science Mafia.
NotAFlyingToy
Mar 21 2017, 05:14 PM
Also, it's funny how MW was just preaching that he'd lynch Deamon regardless of my flip and suddenly is tying it to me again.
VysePresident
Mar 5 2017, 05:17 AM
[*]After you are killed, do not post in this thread. This includes when you are lynched - you may not speak in Twilight if you are the person being lynched. No last minute read lists or Cop reveals, etc.

Aperture Science Mafia.
VysePresident
Mar 5 2017, 05:17 AM
[*]All lynches are final. You may continue talking after a lynch is reached but before I've posted the flip aka during the unofficial "Twilight Phase". Once the flip is posted and night starts, no more posting.

[*]After you are killed, do not post in this thread. This includes when you are lynched - you may not speak in Twilight if you are the person being lynched. No last minute read lists or Cop reveals, etc.
Not sure why I'm the one being queried, but I do happen to have the answer (hence my original post, actually). It's quoted above.

In other news, I humbly suggest we lynch Deamon tomorrow assuming NAFT's self-hammer means what I'm pretty sure it means.

Aperture Science Mafia.
NotAFlyingToy
Mar 20 2017, 01:39 PM
I'm not self hammering. I only do that as scum.
Just gonna briefly preemptively gloat here, don't mind me.

Aperture Science Mafia.
fogu
Mar 21 2017, 02:44 AM
none of the other regular roles would seem to trigger a condition that would bring in the conditional roles, and i can't imagine vyse put those there just for his own amusement.
True! But it could easily be missed by, say, nobody getting the necessary vote to bring it into play.

Aperture Science Mafia.
fogu
Mar 21 2017, 01:52 AM
ep
 
Quick Reminder: Naft endorsed his own lynch as a viable option here. This is either a scum gambit we should call or a town move from a solid player who knows we're trading a vanilla townie for a lot of possible scum information. We should all be voting for Naft in this scenario.
this is not good logic. i am pretty sure at least one of mw and naft is scum. naft endorsing his own lynch should be ringing ten thousand alarm bells, and allowing mw to dictate the lynch order like, three phases in advance is beyond fucking stupid, even without a bookie guaranteed to be in the game.

Bookie's not guaranteed, unless I missed something.

That said, agreed on Inky's argument being iffy. I am skeptical of any win/win scenario. Losing town is not win except in the very rare occasion they're being actively detrimental, and even then it's a pretty Pyrrhic victory.

Also, we're not in total disaster range yet on NAFT since I miscounted apparently; it looks like we need two votes even with Brackie's.

V6 Reduced Activity Notices
Family visiting from March 24 until April 4. Activity will range from "slightly reduced" to "totally vanished" in that time frame.

Aperture Science Mafia.
Empress Plush
Mar 20 2017, 02:24 PM
Toben has a lot of reasons that Deamon is scum, but a lot of them end up brushing up against Naft and his interactions therein. Outside of that it seems like he's mostly got his own interactions with Deamon, and that's always a suspect place to build a lynch from in my opinion. So for Toben to go "it doesn't matter how Naft flips, lynch Deamon" feels weird to me. It's an over commitment whether he is town or scum since I think we should do the best we can to make sure our lynches build off of each other and Toben's basically saying to ignore whatever information we get here and lynch Deamon. My diversion sense is a tinglin' and I don't dig it.
I think you're misunderstanding my case.

Deamon, during the Randomness lynch, was very, very interested in encouraging discussion of all possible angles but most especially those that had nothing to do with Randomness. He "scumread" Randomness, but the pressure he applied was minimal and wishy-washy. That's what piqued my interest; if you look back, you'll note that the flip that would've changed my mind on Deamon was Randomness coming up town.

Today, he also made a few statements that spoke to scum knowledge, which I feel I've beaten to death in earlier posts. I suppose NAFT sorta vaguely prompted that, but not in any way suggestive of collusion; Deamon got over-enthusiastic about helping and tipped his hand.

NAFT also feels pretty darn suspect for a bunch of reasons, but I actually think would more likely be cleared/condemned by a Deamon flip. If Deamon came up town, that'd shake my NAFT-as-scum thoughts somewhat. But the level of deflection he's put out this phase, coupled with his status as a generally slippery scum player and my own suspicions, makes me more than willing to check him first. And if town wants to lynch me tomorrow in light of a NAFT town flip, that's quite alright and a price I'm totally willing to pay.

Just, don't forget Deamon afterwards.

Aperture Science Mafia.
Empress Plush
Mar 20 2017, 02:18 PM
MurderWeasel
Mar 20 2017, 02:05 PM
To be clear, my narrative is that Deamon is scum regardless of how you flip!
I really don't like this. Naft's a good acceptable lynch here because if he's town we're still getting a lot of information, and I think he's right to not buy into the narrative that Deamon is scum if he flips town. Toben trying to maintain focus on that regardless of Naft's flip is...sketchy to me. It'd be kind of like if Random flipped town and I still tried to push Naft just because we'd picked up on sketchy behavior. Flips should mean something to your reads, especially when Deamon/Naft interactions seems to be a decent part of the case on both of them, and MW setting up for Naft's lynch not mattering in pursuit of his case on Deamon feels a lot like scum-hedging.
My Deamon read has very little to do with NAFT. It's based on his play around Randomness and his slip regarding info known. NAFT could pretty much not be in the game and my Deamon read would be unchanged.

Aperture Science Mafia.
NotAFlyingToy
Mar 20 2017, 02:03 PM
I'm not super sold on the narrative that Deamon is scum if I flip town,
To be clear, my narrative is that Deamon is scum regardless of how you flip!

Aperture Science Mafia.
UNVOTE
VOTE: NAFT

By my count we need two more votes. We have like 36 hours left, and NAFT has a history of self-hammering to end phases prematurely so please be aware of that. If NAFT flips town my stance tomorrow is the same as his today (well, not endorsing my own lynch but accepting as a viable means to my end of getting my own scumreads taken out), with the caveat of "Lynch Deamon immediately following please!"


Aperture Science Mafia.
VysePresident
Mar 19 2017, 09:40 PM
Day Phase #2 begins now, and continues until March 21st, 11 PM CST.
Just noticed this and thought it deserved highlighting and preserving for posterity.

Aperture Science Mafia.
Empress Plush
Mar 18 2017, 01:32 AM
That post is getting me to question MW's aggressiveness for one reason, that being that he seems pretty reactionary. I don't recall us ever significantly scum-reading each other beyond the norm last dayphase and I don't recall him noting anything scummy in me before, but he's just flipped to "Paige is probably scum but I'm playing along for now" in one post if I'm reading it right.
Nah, you're still in the town club. I'm just setting myself up to say I wasn't totally blindsided after the game if I'm wrong. It's a play that would get you a scum-read in basically any other situation, but in this specific situation given other factors all it does is hurt your town cred a bit.

Aperture Science Mafia.
Empress Plush
Mar 18 2017, 12:21 AM
I want to get people's opinions on this: Assuming one of these three is scum, what's our ideal lynch order to get the most information? I.E.: the order that hurts us the least if the first two flip town? Because to me it feels like Naft--->Toben--->Deamon.
Don't like this sort of priority setting on principle--really easy for scum to leverage this into a train of mislynches/lack of analysis. This hurts my read of Paige just a bit. If she's flips scum in the fallout thread my line's gonna be "I saw it coming but went with it anyways."

That said, in this particular case I'm gonna go with it anyways. My reads are confident enough that I'm totally down with this plan. I'm fine being next target if NAFT flips town, if folks are gonna string Deamon up after my town flip. And if/when NAFT flips scum, my request would be we do Deamon next and hey, I don't mind being third no matter what he flips at that stage if y'all think I'm pulling the most insane mega-bus of all time. And if we're all town, I'll be shocked beyond words. Though of course I'd love to not be on the block if we do catch scum in both NAFT and Deamon; I think at that stage we'll have breathing room and a solid enough set of leads to pretty clearly show where my loyalties lie.

Aperture Science Mafia.
NotAFlyingToy
Mar 17 2017, 02:21 PM
MurderWeasel
Mar 16 2017, 10:50 PM
That's fair enough! That said, I've not seen much offered--just questions and denials. There's not engaging with an argument and then there's going "You flatter me but no!" and not elaborating further.
I don't give a fuck. Be as harsh as you want.
Oh no, I have no issues being harsh if I'm right. But I made an incorrect statement assessment and wanted to note it since I'm trying to unravel things.

NAFT
 
Also, Toben: I'm not defending myself because I don't care to. It's interesting to me that you've given shit for telling stories about my play, and then proceed to ask me to elaborate on my play when it's questioned? I've done enough defending of my Day 1 stuff and you guys will learn much more when I eventually flip town.

Okay. I believe in calling this sort of thing. This is the second or even third time you've said you're fine being lynched. That's fine with me.

I don't fully believe it; there's lots of weirdness going on in your tone and in the stories you're spinning. But if you don't wanna defend it, cool.

NAFT
 
My lynch I think is the most informative, because you'd then learn about yourself, EP, frogue had some consistent pressure, Deamon looks better though not perfect, and MW looks better if I flip scum.

I'm not so sure about Deamon on this. At all.

NAFT
 
I can completely understand that, but the strength which he's going at it is what gets me the most. I've played probably close to a dozen Mafia games with MW and have NEVER seen him play this aggressively, and I just want to know if he really just believes in this lynch THAT strongly or if there's another reason for it.

This is like an eight for me. A ten is holding the game hostage (see: League mafia, to lynch NAFT). My style's absolutely harder this game, because I've got greater confidence in my reads. Had Random flipped town, I'd be in a very different spot right now. If Deamon and NAFT flip town I'm gonna be a. shocked and b. a good bit less confident. But there's little stuff at play that gives me fairly uncommon confidence.

Still like both Frogue and RC. Dislike the attempts to throw stuff every which way. NAFT or Deamon, toss a coin. Pretty sure it's heads we win, tails they lose.

Aperture Science Mafia.
Flare
Mar 17 2017, 01:21 PM
And I still don't feel like I understand why MW is going so hard in the paint. It feels like a very short term strategy of "GET THESE PEOPLE LYNCHED"... and then what? What's our endgame? Where do we go from there? These are things I feel like MW usually addresses by now...
Basically, we're in a good spot 'cause we caught scum first day. I think we're also in a good spot to chain off that into catching more scum--if we get two scum lynches right off the bat, we're in such a strong place that we'll have to misplay pretty hard to throw that lead. Our endgame is winning. From there we lynch the rest of scum; right now I have four fairly solid scumreads and based on game size I'd be shocked if we didn't just win if I'm on the money on all counts. Heck, this game could easily have only three scum, though I lean fairly hard to four given the balance choices I've seen thus far.

Aperture Science Mafia.
EBWOP: Actually, didn't edit that last post and came off harsher than I meant re: your offerings. I do appreciate the big reads post a bit above. Credit where it's due for that.

Aperture Science Mafia.
That's fair enough! That said, I've not seen much offered--just questions and denials. There's not engaging with an argument and then there's going "You flatter me but no!" and not elaborating further.

Can you walk me through where you stand on Deamon? What has changed and why? More than that, you two are in an interesting spot to read each other, given your neighborhood time. Feel like tossing a more detailed summary to the peanut gallery (to both of you)?