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Project: Wiki
We could pair that with maybe going back a bit and adding pregame tropes to their versions' folders too, to offset v6 and v5(?) having some pregame tropes. It'd feel a little more balanced that way. Not so many they flood over the game stuff, but enough for some inclusion. RC kept bringing up Monty Pondsworth, for example, and his small on-screen role but big impact on several characters could be worth noting.

SOTF Halloween Movie Night
Works for me. It's looking like the podcast will be tomorrow evening but I doubt it will conflict.

Project: Wiki
MurderWeasel
Oct 28 2016, 03:56 PM
What does removing them bring to the wiki? The removal of potential drama and bad feelings
I don't think anybody is still around who'd care even a little about the unapproved characters, re: hurt feelings, but the rest of your point (unquoted) stands.

...Also, haha, I didn't get rid of Erick's or Alex's pages? Welp.

Project: Wiki
For whatever it's worth, I don't really think the unapproved characters should be on the wiki. It feels less archival and more like mocking people whose characters weren't up to scratch.

Replies on other stuff in your post later, Toben, because your post is huge. My basic standpoint is along the lines of yours or Z's for our wiki, and for tropes... well, who gives a shit? Just put whatever we want there and cut back if it gets out of hand. They have that whole "no such thing as notability" rule and all.

Project: Wiki
backslash
Oct 28 2016, 12:06 PM
To clarify my position: I'd be okay with adding profiles for characters who actually had them to begin with, ie characters who were approved in pregame or final apps but not rostered for whatever reason. The snag that runs into is that I wouldn't want to establish a precedent that you have to write a profile to have a Meanwhile student, because I know staff wouldn't want to deal with that and it might discourage people from participating if the rigor of the approval process was something they had trouble with. On the other hand, using profiles that didn't make it through final apps could open the door for things being included that staff really wouldn't have passed had the profile been officially submitted.

I'm with Z here, and it was what I was trying to convey when I posted about what we discussed.

That said (and this isn't a response to the quoted post, just the discussion in general), I do still feel it's ridiculous to even have the section if we're going to treat it as not a valid part of things/something not worth featuring or highlighting. Sure, it's a new precedent to set, but I really feel we should be more inclusive than that.

Project: Wiki
The attitude I've seen from a lot of people in Discord seems more like being against any coverage at all, is part of the thing. At present there's hardly "huge" coverage. And in my view, if it's not worth treating like a valid section in its own right, it's not worth having at all. Why should someone waste their time writing something that's not going to be treated as if it has value?

Project: Wiki
And yet if we treat both like they're just side shows and things in them aren't valid, which getting rid of wiki coverage would be part of, it's not far removed from questions of if we should even have either. There is, or should be, more to meanwhile than "Billy's uncle was sad", and stuff in pregame can be just as worthwhile and character-informing as main game. That's not getting into that these points are tangential to my actual suggestion, which was more about characters who were actively RPed in both. Not "Jim who appeared out of nowhere and got mentioned in one sentence" but "Jim who was an active part of pregame, then for whatever reason went into meanwhile instead, and was an active presence there instead of just namedropped".

Project: Wiki
So why even have either pregame or meanwhile exist? I vaguely feel like if that's how we look at things there's not even a point having either of those.

Project: Wiki
I don't entirely agree there because I feel like pregame and meanwhile should be treated as just as valid. If they're not properly part of the story, why even have those sections?

Project: Wiki
I discussed this with Z a bit and what seemed like a good idea to us is that pregame-only doesn't merit a page, and meanwhile-only doesn't, but pregame and meanwhile does. A character actively RPed in both would warrant their own page but not just one or the other. This would keep bloat to a reasonable level because we're not making a page for every Tom Dick and Harry that's been mentioned in a paragraph, while still allowing characters who are actively RPed in both to be recognised. That's especially the case since part of the point of meanwhile was to allow pregame characters who don't make it onto the island to do things. I would say that to count the character should have been approved in final apps, but not rostered for whatever reason (for example, I simply chose to write Meanwhile instead of the island), to keep unapproved stuff from slipping by. This would be primarily students who've been actively RPed, not family members and such, since relevant parents etc. should be mentioned on the pages. Not to mention we already have pages for meanwhile-only cast. Tropes would stay as it is.

How does that sound?

Project: Wiki
As someone writing mainly in pregame/meanwhile this version I'd fight the idea that pregame/meanwhile characters having pages is just clutter tooth and nail. This is why I renamed the meanwhile cast pages from "support characters" to "meanwhile characters" for example, I don't like the notion that they aren't/can't be considered characters in their own right. I do agree though that it might be too bloated to make individual pages for every character, so maybe by case by case basis? My thoughts would be a character who was actively part of pregame/memories/meanwhile and is still used in some capacity deserves a page.

However, this probably gets into touchy ground for the same reason we don't have a characters page on TV Tropes.

Carry the Fire
"That's fine. If anyone asks I'll cover for you."

Vernon Kanuho's voice was akin to the first rumblings of an approaching thunderstorm. It came as a bass growl bordering on a roar straight from his diaphragm and was the voice that promised annihilation if opposing counsel didn't get out of his way but with the right injection of just a little warmth, such as now when Vernon ever so briefly took his eyes off the prayer leaders to regard his old classmate with just the faintest upward turn of his lips, also promised comfort and protection to those who needed it. He spoke as someone who would go to war for clients or colleagues and had done. Through his suit his muscles twitched when a ringtone yelped through the crowd and caused a ripple of irritation that made the three preachers trail off for a moment and soft, fleshy yet steel-nerved Parker direct a glare into the audience, but the ceremony went on and Vernon didn't outwardly respond. He had defended men accused of murder and worse, a phone couldn't rattle him. The smile remained calm and vaguely paternal on his face, and he gave Ethan a nod then a little pat on the shoulder.

"Let us know if we can do anything. For what it's worth, I hope he's okay."

He turned back to the podium like the shifting of tectonic plates, allowing Ethan to do what he must. Prayers in English, Hebrew and Arabic washed over him and he let out a long breath and wondered at how he would react if it were his own son missing. It took every ounce of his mighty discipline not to turn to Roderick and hold him and refuse to let go.



Roderick opened his eyes and returned to reality when trembling fingers trailed down his bicep. Mrs. Parker. He knew Min-Jae of course, knew his folks, knew his mother's condition. He'd been raised to be courteous, protective, supportive, and Mrs. Parker wasn't his family or even someone he knew well enough to feel comfortable using her first name even though he knew what it was, but she was still someone suffering. He looked to her and Mr. Parker as they edged away, to his parents, back to the Parkers.

Wordlessly, he slipped away and tagged along if only to make sure Mrs. Parker got out of there okay. He spoke only if spoken to, stood ready to lend support if needed. If asked he couldn't really tell anyone why he felt compelled to serve as silent escort. It just felt like the right thing to do. All he could do in this situation, and that simple fact bit deeply into him. This wouldn't be fixed no matter how hard he worked, no matter what he tried to do, no matter how much weight he could lift or who he could beat on the mat. That more than any amount of in-born stoicism might have been part of the reason for his stony visage tonight as the realisation twisted and churned in his guts.

When Mr. and Mrs. Parker were seen off, he returned to his parents' sides and remained there with his candle. The Kanuhos would be among the last to leave that night.



Gregory Luz knew about fear and suffering. Being in his ninth decade he had seen so much of both that they might as well have been the tide coming in and out. He knew them well enough he'd spent much of his existence building the Luzes into a clan that would never have to know either. Fate had denied him the chance to fight Franco, Hitler, Mussolini or Hirohito and so he had made that his service. His family had been strong and happy and the road his life had taken seemed worth it.

The ache where flesh met prosthetic, as familiar as those few of his oldest friends that still lived, trailed up his leg and aimed a mocking stab all the way up to his heart like the Nationalists marching on Madrid. Fate laughed at the world he had built just like it laughed at his patriotism all those years ago. Not satisfied with his leg it now took so many of his grandchildren, arbitrarily plucking them from their family and their future like apples from the tree. The candlelight around him and the stars above shone as if laughing about it. When he heard about the disappearances his ancient heart had nearly stopped forever right then and there.

It took more than that to kill a Luz. He buried the horror, the shake in his hands, gripped his cane - bloodwood with a head of gold, a rare concession to the damage done by passing years - tightly enough he might have broken it had he the strength of his youth, soldiered on. The clan needed its patriarch. A misunderstanding, he told them all, a couple buses just lost for a bit and back in no time. No blood relative of his was enough of a fool to believe that.

Young Crisanto was the first Luz to drift away. Crushed under the weight of candlelight and reality and how much more clearly he could put a face to all 107 names than his grandfather could, he mumbled an apology and slinked back to his car as if drunk. Some of the others stayed, others went. Gregory intended to be the last.

It was the least he could do for all those young futures, as bright as the flame of his candle and snuffed out just as easily.

Project: Wiki
To be totally fair literally half of the internet got DDOSed, too.

Yugi's Arty Thread!
Why is Dante even in this?

Fenris. :(

Audrey Reyes
In.

Bernadette Thomas
In.

Walkabouts
The rest of the hike was uneventful.

((Continued elsewhere))

SOTF Halloween Movie Night
We could do the double feature and watch the third another day perhaps. Depends on how everyone's schedules line up but not impossible.

SOTF Halloween Movie Night
Triple, for the tied movies and Human Race!

...Actually, that might be a lot of movies for one day.

Sometimes when we reach for the stars...
"Girls have asked me but I haven't really thought about it. After State I can decide or ask somebody."

Some of them had been... pushy. Others had at least understood the monumental task before him and where his focus had to be until he returned from Prescott. It was nice to know on some level that he could get attention from girls if he really wanted it - he'd be a stone cold liar if he tried to say advances were never welcome or followed up on or that his eyes had never roamed - but when he didn't it was mostly a distraction. How many of them liked him for him as opposed to his handily tying people in knots on the mat, anyway? The sheer novelty of someone from this hole in the desert doing something of worth made it tough to discern the genuinely interested from the hangers-on and the types to flock to anything that kicks up dust. Roderick shrugged as someone might while guessing whether it would rain that afternoon and gently set his books down before him while speaking.

"I don't see anything weird or improper about it though," he offered after letting his words hang in the air for a moment. He'd noticed Olivia's blush - which he'd greeted with a gentle raise of one eyebrow - and Latanna's continuing insistence on what was or wasn't proper. That remained ever the case even as an idle glance in either's direction would show them as girls who probably wouldn't have any trouble getting a "yes" or two if they just went out and asked people.

"Maybe you'd have fun if you gave it a chance."

...And maybe if Latanna weren't so typically red state in world view, but this was Arizona. Even the weirdly liberal sections of Cochise's student body were still from Kingman. They still carried that weight invisibly around their necks and found themselves beaten into the ground by the sun of the Mojave Desert. Roderick had been trying to stop being the kind of person who would write people off, nobody could help where they were born and when Kingman had its claws in you it was a Herculean task to escape, but he did find himself reminded of that fact in more conversations than he would have liked.

For her part, Olivia was nice, and maybe Latanna could escape that world view if she took that brain of hers and did some critical thinking. Maybe.