Welcome everyone! |
Quick Links, Announcements & Affiliates |
|---|---|
|
The Rules How To Play
Mibbit: #thelegacy - Register Profiles | Homebases Active Topics & Active Users Looking for RP References Calc Maps: Region | World | Area | Landmark |
| Legacy Discussion | ||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Topic Started: Oct 13 2015, 06:46 PM (1,894 Views) | ||||||||||
| Jance | Oct 13 2015, 06:46 PM Post #1 | |||||||||
|
Mega Venusaur
|
Hey guys! So things have been rough this past year on Legacy. We're coming up on the end of 2015 which saw a lot of major changes that didn't quite get completely finished up and we've lost a good portion of our active members due to various reasons. Many of us have been rather busy with real life and have not had the same motivation for posting that we used to have. What I'd like to know is, who here is still interested in Legacy and what the site has to offer as far as roleplay goes? I'd like to get a head count of those still lurking and those who'd still like to continue roleplaying on the site. I'd also like to know your honest feelings about the changes on the site and whether you think the changes were good, bad or whatever. Did any of the changes affect your desire to RP on Legacy? Where there just too many changes to keep up with? Also has it just been real life commitments that have drawn you away from Legacy or were there other reasons? Have Pokemon or forum RPGs just gotten old? I know I too am at fault for being absent and not keeping up with the site as I probably should've. I've just been more interested in other things and working at nights really drains your creativity. But I am hoping that perhaps those of us left can still keep the site going. Anyway, this is where you guys can post any of your thoughts on Legacy and hopefully we can see the site active again soon, if only with our small group of friends RPing together. |
|||||||||
|
Old
| ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Maverick | Oct 14 2015, 06:29 PM Post #2 | |||||||||
|
"How many assholes we got on this ship anyhow?"
|
Oh hey, Mav still lurks. Being part of the changes, I can't complain about why they happened - no one wanted to mod anymore and we needed mods for activity. I can understand why the new format would put people off - getting a mod was fun (giving one sure got old though). Also new changes means lots up updating and catching up and I know a few people refused to RP until they did this...and then just never did. Whether we have mods or this new style, you still needs folks who are interested in RPing and two or three people doesn't foster an active healthy board. Those two or three people get tired, take a break and suddenly the board is dead again. It also doesn't help when the admin don't RP either. There was enough of us left to get this place going if we'd all put as much effort into RPing with each other as we did revamping the place to be low maintenance. Aside from the whole lack of team effort thing, I still want to RP but not as often. Maybe a post a week or something. I don't want to feel like if I 'miss' a post the whole place falls apart. I love you guys and I love this site but I'm over feeling responsible for it - you've probably guessed that though by my absence this year. Kudos to Jance for stepping up and taking the reigns. |
|||||||||
| ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Fordy | Oct 20 2015, 09:40 AM Post #3 | |||||||||
|
ain't no new thing
|
mostly i've been busy with other things, but the underlying problem for me is i only feel interested in participating when there are others already doing it. when i saw other people posting over the summer, all of a sudden i found time and inspiration do do some things. when people stop showing up or things don't turn out how i expected i quickly get discouraged that's just me, that's always been my personal motivation. obviously we're past the point where that's gonna happen. i still check in occasionally tho, still got it bookmarked, i'll always be around if something or someone piques my interest it's come up before but rp message boards focused on writing, at least as far as i know, don't really exist anymore. we've been avoiding acknowledging it for a long time now Edited by Fordy, Oct 20 2015, 09:44 AM.
|
|||||||||
541 ![]() oh! sweet nuthin'APL: 5 | ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Jance | Oct 23 2015, 02:19 AM Post #4 | |||||||||
|
Mega Venusaur
|
*nods* Thanks for your thoughts guys, hopefully we'll get more folks' input too. Yea, seeing other people being active does help more people want to be active. That seemed to be the drive of activity on the site before which was strongly driven by the activity of mods. I have noticed a lot of sites like this have been growing less and less active. I know our affiliate site Alternia recently closed down and I haven't been keeping up with many other forum RPG sites. But I'd hate to simply give up and close the site down, unless folks feel that's our only course of action at this point. I liked most the ideas and changes Mav and I came up with but I'm not sure we implemented them well. I think part of my lack of motivation came when I found that my own idea for Character Levels wouldn't have me at the MPL level I'd reached before and thus I'd either have to go through and deevolve a lot of my pokemon or just ignore them for awhile until I could level up the rest of the way, which seemed like it might actually take longer to reach that point now. And I wondered if other folks might've felt similarly about that and other things. Speaking of my own issues, I do plan to start posting again some. I'll have more time on my hands soon just after November hits as I'm finally quitting my overnight job and working toward a better employment situation overall. 'Course next week I'll be out of town for the Halloween weekend attending my grandfather's wedding. And then Fallout 4'll be out but I'll have worked my last night by then. So yea, going to have a bit more freetime over the holidays. ;) Also, if I'm not mistaken, 2016 would be Legacy's 15th Anniversary right? I was hoping we could perhaps try to do some special event or something for those of us still here. Edited by Jance, Oct 23 2015, 02:29 AM.
|
|||||||||
|
Old
| ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Jin White | Oct 24 2015, 11:13 PM Post #5 | |||||||||
|
existential mage
|
eyy guess what there's not a lot to do when you removed everything there is to do on the site ? -x- it's called the legacy for a reason. let's try and remember what we were ever here for -- the competition, the story, the possibilities, the achievements, the friendships -- and let's not fool ourselves into thinking that it is what it was or that it will ever be exactly as it was. there's something cool about the open world aspect, here, but it's basically: "here's a blank chalkboard, have at." this is not as conducive to development as one might think ! -x- the legacy doesn't die; it transforms year after year. either you have a plot and a purpose, or you have a blank canvas and you're waiting for someone else to paint for you. |
|||||||||
|
i used to be shy. now i'm reserved. who the #!@% is j i n w h i t e character level: 26 { home base } 43
| ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| DarthEevee | Oct 26 2015, 08:16 AM Post #6 | |||||||||
|
Cute and Fluffy Evil Overlord
|
So I just poked my face back here after a few months. I'm a first class lurker. I'll be honest. I love this site, I loved it, and I enjoyed RPing here with the time I had. But I'm extremely unlikely to return, I'm sorry to say. Part of it is that a lot of other people that have characters very important to my own have moved on from here. Part of it is, like a lot of others here have already said, that activity begets activity and I'm more likely to be interested if there's more going on. Part of it is, as always, real life (full time job and three kids, deaths of loved ones, illness, that sort of thing happens to all of us). But I think I 'd have to say that the main thing that killed my interest in even trying to continue playing at all here is the way the leveling setup changed. I am personally not interested in continuing to RP on a place that took six-seven years of my RP, work and effort to get level 50-80 pokemon and jacked the rug right out from under me to where I'm now sitting at like... level 27-28 pokemon on my main, I forget exactly. Almost entirely thanks to pokedex seen listing from over that seven year time. At least half, if not three quarters of my pokemon would suddenly de-evolve at least once, several of them twice, some of them...I don't know exactly how that'd work. Do gallades suddenly spit a stone out their mouths when they're suddenly lower than level 30 so you can evolve them again once they hit the level minimum? See, the trouble with me is that most of my rewards came from roleplay, freeforms, writing, and modding. So, I didn't really go out and get HMs, TMs, legendaries or Badges, which is the new baseline for levels, and all my old RP and so forth that I earned is just apparently discarded as far as tangible (leveling) progress is concerned. What I had loved so much about this site was the fact that these things weren't required to get or do in order to play here. That I wasn't required to get Badges to 'advance the game.' That I didn't have to get TMs to be able travel to most places in general (don't get me wrong, though, I do like the effort to incorporate that more so they have more value to get, either). That, in short, I was free to do whatever my imagination allowed, within the setting of Pokemon. And I did that. For six or seven years-ish. And I loved it. But having all that work taken away from me by that one simple rule, done with what I know were all the best intentions of trying to take and make this place self-moderatable...well. I may be one of the only people so shafted, and that's okay. And let me make it clear, I am not mad at the people that did it. I am certain that people didn't do this with any intention at all of jacking my levels to that degree. Honestly, I don't think it occurred to most people that there were people out there that had gotten to those high levels that HADN'T done all the HM-ing, Badges and Legendary-ing and so on to at least keep a decent mid-forties level. Maybe I could come back if I ever decided to start over completely, but at this point, that's not appealing either on a personal level because I'd rather not take another eight years to make actual progress with a new character and between my own busy life and the slow general speed of things on the forums here, that's what it'd be, probably. Which isn't anyone's fault. I am not trying to say that anyone here is doing anything wrong. I just thought that when I saw this that my perspective might be useful. Why I have stopped playing for probably a good year now is quite heavily hinged on a few things, but I cannot deny that a very large part of it lies in the way that I happen to be one of the likely extremely few people that got shafted sideways with a rusty coathanger by the new level rules. I enjoyed the company of all of you here, and I appreciate the time that I spent with you all as the resident old lady of the site, but I think I shall have to hang up my active RPing hat completely and bow out of active participation openly. I will still lurk occasionally, and when I remember to, poke my nose into the mibbit chat, but that's probably about all I'll be doing at this point. Thank you all, for all the wonderful RP, for the memories, and the delightful moments. I appreciate having known you, and wish all of you the very best and happiness. Peace, love and hippiness, all. <3 Edited by DarthEevee, Oct 26 2015, 08:44 AM.
|
|||||||||
Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the present. ~Oogway
EVERYTHING ELSE
| ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Val_GO | Oct 26 2015, 08:02 PM Post #7 | |||||||||
|
Tossing and Turning
|
Of course I'm interested. Who doesn't have a rough time? Val is still lurking from time to time, but I am still not much in a position to play. I don't feel like it right now. |
|||||||||
"There is no beginning to training, nor end to enlightenment; There is no beginning to enlightenment, nor end to training". - Dogen Zenji | ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Sala. | Oct 27 2015, 12:14 PM Post #8 | |||||||||
![]()
the bird of hermes
|
Rawr. I'm in no shape to really try and resurrect my character from the dead, not to mention the aforementioned rules might as well have killed it off for good, but I can at least give some thoughts. I could mod, but no one wants me to mod their threads with good reason. My two cents are probably worth nothing because of inflation, though. What Eevee said particularly resonates with me because no person who has put that much effort in should be affected that negatively by the changes. I'm sure there's a good reason for them, since Legacy was always made up of people who can think, but implementing such a massive change without followup room for corrections and adjustments to those changes lacks foresight. The alpha or beta version of something is likely going to need fixes in some areas, and nothing is happening to that effect. Indeed, it was as Eevee said, the rules were made in lieu of the fact that some people roleplayed in a way that the rules do not and will not reward, and is that that person's fault for not getting HMs, Badges, etc? You simply can't retroactively destroy a player's years of efforts, because it doesn't make sense. It's equally absurd that my character level would be higher than some of the active members just because I've been around so long and I served as a mod, despite not being active for almost a decade. As someone who was here when Legacy took off, I remember when we were getting new people coming every day and it was a struggle to find enough mods to handle the demand. Now there's almost no demand, and the system has changed to reflect that. Can't say I disagree with co-op journeys, but it's a reflection of how insular the community has become. One suggestion that would have been impossible in the olden days was that in order to receive a mod, you have to give a mod to someone else, mainly because of quality reasons, but it's another step up from the current system which will pretty much shaft anyone who decides to go it solo. Legacy has come and gone, arose and fallen. As one of the longest running active RP sites, it's almost an institution, akin to death and taxes. It might not be the most vigorous of places at times, but it's always here, which makes me happy. 夢にだに思わないほど嬉しさだ。If I'm needed or someone wants to try a co-op with me, I'll be around, but I'll otherwise be comfortable lurking. |
|||||||||
![]() APL: 12. | ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Maverick | Oct 27 2015, 04:01 PM Post #9 | |||||||||
|
"How many assholes we got on this ship anyhow?"
|
Just going to say, since there's a misconception that the rules couldn't be tweaked....what's up was the first roll out, but folks left, didn't ask about, and didn't try it out so we have no clue what needed to be added/revised to make a modless system work for EVERYONE, not just old members. Also, see my first post. Everyone dropped the ball and sort of lost hope when we all should have been banding together and finding a way to make the new system work. This thread should have been made a long time ago, but it's here now and folks are still around enough to read it, so it's not too late to do something. Long story short, we can still tweak the leveling system. Hell, we can do away with it completely if it's that big of a turn off and the calculator was really preferred. But before everyone pounces on that idea, hear out the rest of the post...the real reason I'm bothering to speak up cuase this thread is looking more like a blame game than what it's intended for. There is a method behind the madness, and how we get there is up for discussion or this thread wouldn't exist. And yes, we want to know what you don't like, but also what you DO like, old and new. How would you 'fix' things? How would you bring in new members, etc. Wasn't that said? Well it's said now. Goal 1. We wanted a low maintenance system that would allow someone to play without depending on a mod and wouldn't freeze them for weeks on end if the person they're RPing with vanished. Endless number of threads, faster travel, and blanketed leveling system for less juggling (which obviously needs some more work). Goal 2. Make the board easy to understand and navigate for new members. This was pretty important given that there's so few of us die-hards left to really drive an active site. We eliminated or dumbed down alot of systems. Does that mean it has to stay that way? No way, if you really liked something, we can look at it again. We just don't want a new member overwhelmed by a bunch of minor rules that only ever applied to one or two folks. A crappy side effect of the rule-rollout was that this was such a different system, we put on the back burner, the more familiar and popular systems like free forms and legend hunting. They weren't eliminated! Just frozen until we had enough folks around willing to give this a try that could help us make it work. Well looky here, folks really are still around and lurking. IF you want to play on legacy again, take a look at goal 1 and 2 and throw out some ideas. Our previous reboots have either been to give Legacy a fresh face or lure in old members. Playing favorites to old members is what ran this place into the ground. New members were virtually ignored so it's no surprise we never kept any of them. And this circles back to Jance's first point, is there enough interest in written RPG's and pokemon to build a fresh member base? Edited by Maverick, Oct 27 2015, 04:03 PM.
|
|||||||||
| ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Nekoboy | Oct 28 2015, 03:30 AM Post #10 | |||||||||
|
~Meow~
|
Currently, the idea of RPing with another person, not just a mod, is very good. However, it may also be a good idea to put out options for people who are looking to do a journey by themselves. In my case, Shuan is one of them. Currently he is traveling with Santiago, but I don't want them to travel together forever. So, perhaps make a system based off of the free-form system we had a while back. Someone can do their own thing, and at the end of the thread it becomes cannon, rather than just something for fun. Allow people to use that for themselves. As for organizing the site? Well... I think it might be better to start from scratch. I like how the house, PC and all of hillmoss is together right now, with the rest of the world being in one whole place. But finding rules can actually be hard for some newcomers. Perhaps, instead of having some rules within other rule files, make certain things separate. Obviously if something goes hand in hand, they should stay together, but some things just don't seem to fit together. Also, some things, such as mega stones, are not well explained in the rules system. Either we put something in there, or we make a thread about it. When we actually decide what to do with all of that, that is. I'm off and on lately, if you want to talk, or feel like we can brainstorm ideas, I'm always open from 3:00PM to 1:00AM easten time. I have skype if you want, I'll put that here, or you can just PM me. Skype: shadowstar71 |
|||||||||
| ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Jance | Oct 28 2015, 09:03 AM Post #11 | |||||||||
|
Mega Venusaur
|
Excellent this is what I was looking for, feedback, negative or positive. Reiterating what Mav said, we don't want to keep in place a system that leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth or devalues all the effort people have put into the site up until now. We made a lot of changes and decided a lot of things but in hindsight I think we changed too much too fast and should've gotten more input from everybody, not just our circle of advisors or mods. This is what I'm hoping to do now, if it's not too late. The idea behind the leveling changes was to simplify things a bit, keeping track of one overall level and not having to worry extensively about keeping track of the level of 100 to 500 pokemon. Essentially expanding the whole MPL system we had previously. As I mentioned, I too was a bit disheartened that the leveling changes really set you back a ways, which was why I'd been trying to come up with more "achievements" or things to keep track of to pad levels a bit. I had been thinking we could actually have experience points for Character Levels which you could gain your experience for via a 'GEXP' system of points awarded per post and the initial "achievements" didn't level you themselves but gave you experience toward that Character Level. Like you'd need 10 experience to gain a Character Level, and you get 1 experience per post you made so 10 posts would level you. But each achievement you earn would give you 1 experience point too. And so on. Do you guys like the concept of a 'Character Level' or did you prefer the standard leveling one Pokemon at a time using GEXP or EXP purchased with Legacy Points? Or do you have something else in mind? Yea solo journies are a problem with a modless system. Without someone to act as a guide or a sort of Dungeon Master, basically you RP by yourself which isn't much fun. Freeforms were great for writing side stories that pertained to character development or getting something special but doesn't really work very well as a journey post since journies are more fun when you don't know exactly what's going to happen. It is currently possible to still ask someone to mod your solo thread. Perhaps we could just restore this mehtod this out, modded threads being a secondary system with folks volunteering to mod as needed, the same as we had before but with co-ops still being the primary journey threads. Basically all we've really done is remove the limits on how many co-op threads you can have. We could go back to having a single "canon" solo thread that would be modded but it would be the slower method of progressing. So whenever you're waiting for someone to mod your solo thread you can be RPing in three other threads with your buddies. We could even have a list of 'volunteer mods' instead of having a 'mod rank' and if you'd like to request a mod you just PM someone on the list, or we could go back a Request a Mod thread again. We'd put Freeforms on the back burner as originally Freeforms had special rules and required special mods to handle them. Mainly as Freeforms could get you a lot of cool stuff if you worked hard at it. Plus it was designed to act as a teaching method to help everybody improve their own writing. Of course after awhile nobody really wanted to sit down and read and grade them and if you were longwinded enough it didn't really matter how good or bad you did you still could get a crap ton of nice stuff. So Freeforms in a modless system have been a bit difficult to figure out. Okay going to leave it at that as I find it's difficult to process things if there's too much in one post. I think the leveling system and the initial posting system is a good place for us all to start at. Thank you everyone for posting! It's encouraging seeing folks posting here and sharing their thoughts and opinions. I know at times folks have probably felt like what they had to say would be ignored and shot down or they might hurt people's feelings or make someone angry. But I'm serious here, I want honest, heart-felt opinions and fresh ideas. I'd love to see us all RPing together again, in some form in the new year, if that's what people want to do. Edited by Jance, Oct 28 2015, 09:04 AM.
|
|||||||||
|
Old
| ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Fordy | Oct 28 2015, 01:08 PM Post #12 | |||||||||
|
ain't no new thing
|
i don't buy the rules thing. changing anything was a reaction to what had already happened. i'm not going to dig through anything to find out exactly what order people stopped caring in, but if people truly were actively playing under the old system of rules it never would have been changed. personally i'd say kill the rules entirely. there's five people here basically, and i barely count myself as a part of that. your individual little trinkets and levels and points do not matter at all at and haven't since like... 2011. there is no one to be competing with, there are no new players coming in, everyone knows who everyone is. we already know intuitively what "level" of accomplishment eevee has/had. we don't need numbers to say it. it was all arbitrary and superficial anyway. so back to throwing that all out: the new format of legacy should imo be one guided storyline that everyone can participate in. that's the overarching thing, with your DM type person in charge and everyone else playing along. if you wanna do something else, it's basically gonna be a freeform. that's for you, that's your personal thing. you can get someone to mod it for you if that's more fun, or you can do whatever you want if that's your thing. want to fight a gym and have more of a "game" experience? go ahead. want to write some self-indulgent nonsense to feel special? go ahead. but the main attraction from now on should, i think, be the main storyline, the main event, the thing where you're interacting with everyone else. i remember the black pass event or whatever the hell it was called. shit was fun. probably one of the best things that happened here. i'd love to do something like that, if mav was willing to play god again. the world and scale has to shrink to fit the amount of people, otherwise everyone's just stuck in a vast ocean of lore with no one to help them sift through it. |
|||||||||
541 ![]() oh! sweet nuthin'APL: 5 | ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Nekoboy | Oct 28 2015, 02:06 PM Post #13 | |||||||||
|
~Meow~
|
Okay, that's a rather interesting idea Fordy. If we aren't looking at new members coming in, we could do something like that. I like that idea, simply because I've not been apart of it when it apparently happened. I'm open to many things, but I'll do my best to be more active. You all know I'm basically on again off again here. | |||||||||
| ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| DarthEevee | Oct 28 2015, 03:09 PM Post #14 | |||||||||
|
Cute and Fluffy Evil Overlord
|
Yeah, I wasn't trying to say that the rule change was why I stopped doing things here initially, I don't think I was clear enough there...it was more a reason that I decided to stay stopped. And I'm sorry if it sounded like I was trying to say that something was wrong with it or that it needed to go. I'm just...mostly lurking at this point, and I was just trying to say that the rules were the big reason why I have continued to not do anything. All the other reasons listed in my first post (life and work and sick and other people not being active/around and so on) were the first reason I went more inactive. Honestly, if this were a brand-new site with those rules as its startup or a revamp within the first year or two of site life, I think they are actually a good idea in general. Some tweaking would be needed probably, sure, but I do like the notion behind them, don't get me wrong, it's just that they can't take into account all the other ways of things on a well-established site like this. The main problem with them is the fact that this site has been around for ages and you can't necessarily tangibly quantify RP into pure numbers in any sort of simple fashion. *shrugs* And again (because I feel like I didn't make this clear enough the first time around), I really am not actually in any way mad at all at anyone for implementing them, nor do I have any hard feelings about it, nor do I feel like they are meant to shaft me or anyone else like they may or may not have or anything, nor do I think that they were a bad idea in general. I didn't add any suggestions on how to fix things because of multiple reasons, one of which being that I don't know if I could keep playing anyhow even if things get changed, and that makes me not really sure that I should say things that won't even make me come back even if they happened. I've been depressed IRL a lot lately (my dearly beloved grandmother went to join my wonderfully missed grandfather just in time for what would have been their 64th wedding anniversary in August, in particular), my ambition is shot as a result, and full time work plus kids means free time goes crazy, and I found other things like MMOs and petsites with a fair bit of what little I have any more so I don't know how much I'd switch over even so. This isn't to say that I am certain that I wouldn't find time if something actually motivated me, but yeah. I don't know how to fix things. I'm not that great at rules and ideas about them, to be honest. x.x I now feel like I said something wrong in my post, that it came off as me attacking people, when I was just trying to explain the main reason I didn't come back after other reasons made me leave (because I had considered it at one point). I'm sorry if it came off like that, and I feel like I should just shut up now before I make other people think I hate them or something. Sigh. Aanyhow. I know that wasn't other people's intentions either, so meh. The only vague thoughts I have had were to pitch levels out the window entirely and the like, which seems something like Fordy's suggestion and I don't know. *shrugs* I can see where that would potentially cause all sorts of difficulty, but...well. If new people appear and go all 'lulz I got arceus with my charmander five minutes after I left the lab' one can simply completely ignore them and go on with their lives, and not RP with them so that they just...get bored eventually, I don't know. *shrugs again* I'm... really not good at this sort of thing. But honestly, I think the main issue with the site is...well, a lack of ambition on everyone's part (myself included). Heck, I'm kind of worried if Fordy counted me in those five people they stated, because I'm not sure I should be counted any more than they said they should be in that number. e.e One thing that helps activity is having active people, and none of us are...proactive exactly, so then...well. We wait for something to catch our attention, and otherwise just lurk? I...really don't know how to fix that, or if it's something broken that even needs fixed. Bluh. ...I seriously feel tempted to delete this because I feel like I'm just rambling like a first-class idjit at this point, but I do want to try to clarify stuff and try to help somehow, so I think I'm going to hit post now and hope that I don't offend anyone somehow or something with my incoherent attempts to explain my warped thought processes and reasonings. |
|||||||||
Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the present. ~Oogway
EVERYTHING ELSE
| ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Maverick | Oct 28 2015, 04:08 PM Post #15 | |||||||||
|
"How many assholes we got on this ship anyhow?"
|
Don't delete your post Eevee you're voicing what you feel and you're not alone. I'll be honest that I've been bored with Legacy's themeless theme for a long time. I've even looked into other sites but can't get into their theme either. Not sure what would really grab my attention at this point. If inspiration really grabbed me, I wouldn't mind doing another storyline with folks, but those are a huge amount of planning and juggling and I have no idea if I'm up for that these days. Edited by Maverick, Oct 28 2015, 05:55 PM.
|
|||||||||
| ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Jance | Oct 29 2015, 02:34 AM Post #16 | |||||||||
|
Mega Venusaur
|
Oh no Eevee you're just fine. Rambling's what this thread is for, some place for us to throw our honest thoughts and opinions out there, whether they even make sense to ourselves. And even if you couldn't continue to be a part of the site, your input is still greatly appreciated. I've been thinking along similar lines as Fordy. We have a handful of people here, we all pretty much know one another for the most part, we could just tailor the site to what we enjoy rather than working on extensive rules and things. Make the site more of a place to share stories with each other and RP whatever/whenever we feel like together. I like the idea of having an ongoing site storyline which everyone can get involved with. True it could take a bit of planning and coordination but it wouldn't have to be too complicated. We'd really only need to provide a base plotline and we'd fill it out as we went through the roleplay. And it wouldn't have to be, and shouldn't just be, Mav steering the ship, though she is pretty great at that. ;) So what if we threw out the rule book, got rid of levels, keeping track of a million little things and everything just happened naturally through the roleplay? Focus instead on stories and and interaction with each other rather than mechanics and systems? You might keep track of a few minor things like what pokemon you have and where you were in the world, but you could just have your pokemon "level" and evolve when you felt it fit with the story rather than based any experience system. Base the site more on the series? We could have a few region wide "events" or "themes" going on in which folks could create their own side storylines from and a couple main storyline threads going that folks could come and post in whenever they felt like. These could last as long as they needed too and there wouldn't be any rush to post in them. They wouldn't even have to be finished before we started another if we wanted. The 'DM(s)' would provide updates as needed but would spend more time being part of the story than acting strictly like an outside mod if they wanted. And having two or three people collaborating to guide the roleplay would help with keeping each other from getting burned out, but each person could also bring their own new element that the others might not know about thus keeping it more dynamic. Thinking on this I'm picturing things like you could even have two threads going with the same plotline but from two different view points. IE you could have one thread be the 'bad guy group' point of view and the other the 'good guy group' point of view and see how the story develops from those two different perspectives. And as players you could participate in both as you'd simply use a different character for each thread. Or something like that. But yea Idunno. Any other thoughts? |
|||||||||
|
Old
| ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Maverick | Oct 29 2015, 04:59 AM Post #17 | |||||||||
|
"How many assholes we got on this ship anyhow?"
|
Don't think I'd like RP without the G but I'll be happy to go along with whatever the majority vote is and give it a try. | |||||||||
| ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Fordy | Oct 29 2015, 10:21 AM Post #18 | |||||||||
|
ain't no new thing
|
my intention wasn't to say throw the game out entirely or to say there's no value in it, the game adds a great and theoretically simple backdrop to everything. i just question whether that's actually the thing people get the most enjoyment out of- who really prefers the numbers at the bottom of the post over the words at the top? but hey, if you do, there's no reason to get rid of it, it's just up to you which you'd rather emphasize at that given moment. as much as i think the main storyline thing would be the most fun and the ideal way of keeping this thing running, obviously that's a lot of investment for one person and it's questionable whether you can keep people involved. i mean, i tried like three times to get my thing going, but i get easily discouraged when i don't see the participation i expected. well, i get easily discouraged period, but i have no incentive of "i'm gonna look like a dick when i drop out on these people" when there aren't more than 1 or 2 people to begin with. but i do think the alternative is nothing, so, if you prefer something to nothing, it might be worth looking in to. don't try to count up 5 people, also, i don't think there are that many, lol. if we had just a handful more i think this all becomes a bit more feasible, but... Edited by Fordy, Oct 29 2015, 10:23 AM.
|
|||||||||
541 ![]() oh! sweet nuthin'APL: 5 | ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Jance | Oct 29 2015, 02:48 PM Post #19 | |||||||||
|
Mega Venusaur
|
Some other things to consider, when Legacy was active, what inspired you to post? What motivated you to be active? What did you enjoy about the site most? And is that gone now? Are you just burned out and bored? Or just too busy? Have we outgrown Legacy? Edited by Jance, Oct 29 2015, 02:49 PM.
|
|||||||||
|
Old
| ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Maverick | Oct 29 2015, 03:29 PM Post #20 | |||||||||
|
"How many assholes we got on this ship anyhow?"
|
What I enjoyed most was getting a storyline or participating in a site wide event, not as the driver but the passenger. Experiencing someone else's story was always exciting. I remember waiting up nights to read everybody's post and find out what the next mod would be about. Really, it's the same reason I play any game. I don't care so much about the battling or the stats, I want to progress the story and find out about the world of the game I'm in. I enjoy unlocking and collecting weird items, and encountering cool bosses and locations. Puzzles and riddles over clobbering any day! Always hated the hunt for and battle something aspect. Level grinding is just boring. Let's say we did do something along the lines of what 45 suggested. We start up some new save the world storyline. What if you didn't want to play your same old character you've had ten years but a different one - but not a newbie. I'd love to be able to set up an advanced character just for that storyline perhaps. Right off the bat say this guy has been training for awhile, he's got his team of favorites that are evolved and he specializes in 'insert something here'. Throw down his team, his base loot, get an ok for the story driver, and off you go through the story. Maybe you keep him around for stuff after, maybe you don't. It's spontaneous, it's different and you don't get sucked into the one character trying to do it all from scratch gig. And yeah, I'm busier than I used to be, but I could totally get into that if we could make it work - but it's mod based and that never seems to. Oh, one last thing. Adobe has been wanting to get main chat active again so I'm going to make an effort to lurk there when I'm online. He thought we were more motivated to RP when we were all in chat talking about ideas. Pop into main chat if you're online and see who's there maybe? *ramble over* Edited by Maverick, Oct 29 2015, 03:32 PM.
|
|||||||||
| ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Sala. | Nov 3 2015, 07:21 AM Post #21 | |||||||||
![]()
the bird of hermes
|
I never much enjoyed my own roleplay. It was quirky for sure, but there wasn't anything that motivated me to make it an actual journey. I just bumbled around, doing random things. This is more than 10 years ago to be fair, though. What really kept me around here was modding, surprisingly. Back then, there was a huge demand for moderation, and I was happy to provide it in a challenging way. Most mods would sign off without a thought on what you were trying to do, but I wanted to introduce elements of difficult and unexpectedness to someone's journey. They always got a fitting reward in the end because that would be the only fair thing to do. Even when we were still on ezboards, I had that same approach. I guess I simply loved writing more than going through all the hassles of making a character, leveling, acquiring items, etc. It's probably been eclipsed by now, but I remember making a pair of 14,000 word mods for someone's freeform, and that to me was fun. But then life got busy and I made poor emotional decisions, and just like that, my tenure ended. If there was a compelling reason for me to come back, then I would at least make an effort because I still love writing and enjoy Pokemon, even if I'm like 3 generations behind still. Aside from Mav and Fordy, however I hardly know anyone and no one knows me, so there's no personal connection to be had. That sense of community was just as important to me as modding, and everyone grew up and went and did their things, so I don't think that can be regained. |
|||||||||
![]() APL: 12. | ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Lonile | Nov 3 2015, 08:20 AM Post #22 | |||||||||
![]()
Descending into insanity
|
4 ![]() What always interested me was the exploration of characters, both people and pokemon, and the overcoming of obstacles that I could not predict. Unfortunately, and I hate to say this, pokemon wasn't my first thought when it came to RPing. Those of you who know me know I was more interested in technological genres such as mecha and the like. I like running the numbers, exploring the scenarios and trying to break down what's going on. On the other hand I don't think I have much right to speak since my attempt at shaking things up and changing things... broke. I kind of feel like my pseudo-event hurt us too much. I always felt like a bit of an outsider here because I would rather treat the pokemon as animals rather than characters to some point, but I for one liked keeping track of the individual stats. How did this site start? What brought people in in the beginning, because I kind of feel like if you could recapture that you might have some luck. Yes, RPGs as we like them are dying out but that just means that those with the creativity and drive to write are having their desire to do this sort of thing left unfulfilled. |
|||||||||
|
Mark Lonile /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ Sarah Forester
| ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Jance | Nov 3 2015, 08:50 AM Post #23 | |||||||||
|
Mega Venusaur
|
Getting chat active again would be good, perhaps we ought have a place where we can share what times we can each be in chat most. For me, I always enjoy RPing with people rather than by myself. I also enjoyed modding and creating a story for someone to follow and watching how they react and respond to my plotline even if it wasn't very good. I used to like keeping up with my profile and fiddling with the layout and stuff, though that's become a tad tedious over the years. I also like having a goal or quest, basically a purpose for my RP to follow, but I do like for my RP to take on a life of it's own. I'd still love to hear more from folks about their own ideas and thoughts. I've been thinking over what folks have mentioned so far and have a few ideas for some 'events' if folks are interested.
So yea I'd love to hear opinions on either of these. Is this sort of what folks had in mind? Would this be too complicated for folks to follow? Do either of these event ideas interest you? Do you like the idea of your character being mortal? Also would folks like having a side forum for RP other than Pokemon RP? So you could just play something different once in awhile. Edited by Jance, Nov 3 2015, 08:59 AM.
|
|||||||||
|
Old
| ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Fordy | Nov 3 2015, 11:55 AM Post #24 | |||||||||
|
ain't no new thing
|
whatever happens, it shouldn't be picking one thing. what we've established is that everyone likes something different and gets something different out of this setting- that should be the focus, creating a setting that involves everyone but still lets them do their own thing. that's kind of the goal of what i said originally, keep everyone involved or they're gonna go away but let them do as they please otherwise. i'll always sing the praises of modding, i think getting rid of it basically entirely was a bit of mistake, even if some people preferred it that way. oni shouldn't be feeling like his vision doesn't fit into the established order, sala should be able to do an ezboard style chain mod with someone, we should have jance's events to participate in together (i dig the last one even tho people seem to have incessant problems with all it entails) and whatever else you want to do can happen too. i don't personally see any appeal in the free-modding thing, but i'm sure there are people that like it- do it. if stats are fun for you, do it. if battles are all you care about, do it. if you want your character to wander in the woods accomplishing nothing, do it. if possible, we should look to involve everyone's individual idea of what they enjoyed/think they would enjoy about this kind of thing. we should bring back stars to level up tho i don't care what anyone thinks about that edit: should we be building towards something specific? or is this just a general airing of grievances thing? Edited by Fordy, Nov 3 2015, 12:25 PM.
|
|||||||||
541 ![]() oh! sweet nuthin'APL: 5 | ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Sala. | Nov 4 2015, 02:46 AM Post #25 | |||||||||
![]()
the bird of hermes
|
My voice should count for little, but we need to rethink how roleplaying and adventuring interplay. The original forums were designed to progress like the games, moving from one area to another with moderation, and it worked because there were enough mods. As time passed, and the mods dried up, we moved to freeforms, because it enabled people to do a lot more with the few mods that were left, but moderation itself never went away. Now that there are no mods essentially, we need to ask ourselves, "Is it worth trying to fit the square peg into the round hole because the square peg was round at one time?" Area-based progression based on moderation works best with a dedicated cadre of mods or a community willing to take turns modding each other. We lack the first, and the second is a something not everyone has the time or effort to pull off. The other path we never took in my tenure, and which Jance is proposing, is event-based progression a la D&D; initial conditions are set and the way the adventure can progress largely relies on the choices of the participants. It's a lot more work upfront compared to traditional moderation, because the moderators that control the adventure need to plan out many contingencies and be able to adapt while remaining true to the overall flow of the adventure. It also allows for many people to participate in an adventure together to be modded all at the same time, which lowers some of the burden of moderation. If I were to make a random, simple event, I'd do some sort of tournament:
That example aside, the point I was making is that the community needs to figure out what system of adventuring will work best for the current conditions. Sleeeeeeeeeep |
|||||||||
![]() APL: 12. | ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Jance | Nov 7 2015, 11:01 AM Post #26 | |||||||||
|
Mega Venusaur
|
Yep and this is exactly what I'm hoping we can achieve with this thread, if that's what people want. |
|||||||||
|
Old
| ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| FuzzyMittenz | Nov 9 2015, 07:30 PM Post #27 | |||||||||
|
Pidgey
|
Hello, all. I used to play on this site a long time ago. A looooong time ago (With Solar, York). It saddens me to see the state that the game is currently in, and if there were some way that I might assist in adding to the community, I happily would. As someone who never experienced the changes that occurred in what would probably amount to a better part of a decade, I may have the luxury of an experience that was never muddled by the paradigm shifts. A tight knit community of roleplayers can and have been sustained with oversight from a single source: a singe storyteller that is willing to sacrifice his gaming experience for the view from the other side of the glass. D&D was a great example of a system that was designed to promote this concept. When I wrote on Legacy, there were indeed a "large" team of Mods, but "large" in this example meant numbers of between 9-12, for a player base that numbered us 10-14:1. I wish I had known then what I know now about processes, systems, and disciplinary oversight, because one of the main concerns was nepotism among the Mods: Mods tended to "swap" posts with other Mods, and there was already a method of discerning which posters were Moderators or not, so it would have been simple to weight those posts in terms of the rewards given for modding. But I digress. If there is a need for someone to Mod encounters, or the community that exists here in this thread (and any other stragglers or newcomers that stumble upon this lost gem) want to try and revive this place, I would strongly recommend not abandoning the "Mod" style. Having a canvas upon which to write your own story, without the dynamic of human interaction or the intrigue of (at the very least) a world that exists outside of your control, is very simple: open a WordPad document and get to banging out your next novel. Without the ability to dynamically interact with the environment or mindlessly pre-programmed NPCs, an "open world" dynamic doesn't work for this genre. Players will drive themselves into the ground with infighting, or fade away and end someone's hard work...and then the problem with a game that never ends rears its head. How do you sustain a game that never ends? This is the problem that World of Warcraft and other such MMOs have faced for a long time. There needs to be some way to end the progress of a character without upsetting the player. A character cannot live forever, and characters that exist for half a decade or more must be recycled in some way, else players become resistant to change or believe that their tenure somehow separates them in a gaming world. If you're interested in starting over, I would recommend completely new concept characters; otherwise, what's being described by some of the posts is one last walk down memory lane, with no purpose other than to cling to the fond friends of their previous characters. Anyways, I'm interested in seeing what will be proposed, and in being involved if convenient. Edited by FuzzyMittenz, Nov 10 2015, 04:40 PM.
|
|||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Fordy | Nov 9 2015, 11:41 PM Post #28 | |||||||||
|
ain't no new thing
|
strongly agreed hitting the nail on the head, really, so well done on that despite being a decade out of the loop. only thing i would add is that more "recently" (lol) freeforms become pretty much an equally important game mechanic, and are responsible for a lot of the best storytelling on the site. thanks to York for that one. did we drop freeform grading? increasingly i'm thinking the solution is to start rolling things back a bit. i don't know if you can make everyone's different ideas jive and i think modding is important or there's no reason to play maybe that's the solution, if someone will lead it. right now i think everyone is waiting for someone else to take charge |
|||||||||
541 ![]() oh! sweet nuthin'APL: 5 | ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| FuzzyMittenz | Nov 10 2015, 05:15 PM Post #29 | |||||||||
|
Pidgey
|
Fordy, I absolutely agree that freeform RP is something that is desperately needed, even if the sole purpose of indulging in it is character development, or entangling your character with someone else's. I could see where this would bring about some of the best writing on the site: there's no reward but the satisfaction that occurs when you have successfully fleshed out a particular facet of your PC, or have gotten a private message from another player that says "Dude, this storyline is going to rock, thanks so much for starting the thread". Unfortunately, there is little (or no) success, cunning, suspense, frustration, failure, or realism that a Player can experience when it comes to freeform RP. The only satisfaction comes with the completion of (or expanding upon) a single thought, that one storyline, and even then there's often a bitter taste of "well it would have went differently if __(so-and-so)___ had just gotten the memo With that being said, however, the mechanics that allow players to have that control wrested from their hands, be sat down in front of a keyboard, and be forced to say "How would my character react when presented with this stimuli?" are inherently ingrained into the Mod system. A good Mod could make a PC look around and say "You know what, maybe I actually am in a little bit over my head", or could alternatively give a player that moment...that blissful moment that we all probably remember, when we were just running through the damn tall grass and out of nowhere we hit upon a Rare or a Shiny, or a Pokemon that we never knew was even ON that damned route to begin with. The kind of experience that has someone anxiously waiting to see what would occur, whether their attempt at capturing that rare Pokemon was successful, what creature was it that had been stalking them the last nine posts (with it's eerie red glowing eye and penchant for disappearing when looked for)....these kinds of experiences require that someone else take the reigns. The negatives of the Modding system comes almost purely in the form of nepotism and with the disgruntled muttering that comes when one Mod takes over the posts of another Mod (changes in writing style were something that was insanely frustrating as a player, for example, because one Mod might find it appropriate to pen a seven sentence response to the epic 10-14 paragraph posts that had been exchanged between the player and another Mod before they jumped into it), or better yet, when things didn't go the way that they wanted. Both of these systems absolutely have their merit, and a merging of them would be awesome. I can't see having a forum RP that didn't incorporate some sort of system that rewarded and encouraged both of these options being available (and fairly weighted). For example: new Pokemon, in my opinion, should only ever be able to be obtained through Modded encounters. However, if you want to Freeform a storyline between you and your beloved ______ that is meant to developed ______'s character and personality, or to give the Pokemon some kind of skill that it otherwise wouldn't have had, I think that's a great option. TL;DR: I think that incorporating a little bit of both systems would suffice. Rolling back the rules won't bring back the character base, unfortunately, but it will at least make the compromise between the current players a little easier to stomach. Edited by FuzzyMittenz, Nov 10 2015, 05:17 PM.
|
|||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| FuzzyMittenz | Nov 10 2015, 05:38 PM Post #30 | |||||||||
|
Pidgey
|
@Lonite This site began (and took off) due to a number of factors: - Text-based RPing was much more in vogue (ha, typing that killed me) then than it is now. Anime High School, Dragon Ball Z, Pokemon, Final Fantasy...all of these types of games were within a decade old. We were the first generation to truly experience handheld gaming in all of it's wonders, but we were frustrated at the confines that those little cartridges placed on our adventures. - (Lol, I have no idea why I did that) DL was able to successfully start this site with the collaboration of a group of like-minded people, coupled with the amount of free time that only comes from unfortunate life circumstances and a little bit of hermetic flare. - The systems that people seemed to flock to the most were that A.) the game allowed you to be an antagonist, B.) this game gave you the feeling that you were more than just some 13 year old kid wandering through the world doing things for some old Professor and C.) meant that we could make our Pokemon have their own personality. - There was a feeling that existed on the board that turned the game into happily discordant place. People were happy to have bad things occur because it gave them something to do, or the Mods would force the hands of two groups that would otherwise have been enemies into a terse alliance for the sake of self-preservation. - The idea that you could fairly compete with another intelligent human being, minus the ability to hack or cheat, was hugely popular. Especially if you were a bad guy. Bad guys on this site (back then, anyways), were absolutely gnarly, although the theory that spoke against GM intervention eventually ruined some parts of the game. Unfortunately, I was a part of those actions, but it also highlights another even MORE unfortunate reason that people liked this place: There weren't really any rules. Everyone was part of a community that believed that if everyone got what they wanted, that the game world would be an amazing place. Unfortunately, what occurred is that the first time someone got their hands on an Eevee they began mass breeding it and selling them to everyone who would listen, or similarly dick-ish things that meant that their PC shot to the top of the economic spectrum at the expense of all of the hard work that the other players would have had to do in order to have that same achievement. It would have been a great boon to the site had their been a Legacy-exclusive "guardian" Pokemon that essentially would just show up and knock a PC the hell out for acting too crazy, a sort of rarely-used McGuffin that could have been called upon to correct imbalances as they occurred. Coupled with an extravagant amount of interpersonal relationship drama, Mods and Administration stepped up to try and correct this problem, a coup ensued, and things began changing fairly rapidly after that. No one was sure who the real "leader" was. Madness reigned. York eventually took over, and things began to improve, but I was never privy to seeing where this led. That's the last I know about what occurred with Legacy. Even so, at one point this place was my baby. I sunk an exorbitant amount of time into system development and tweaking storylines and Modding for players and just generally trying to make this game as fun, fair, and realistic as possible...and I wasn't the only one. Edited by FuzzyMittenz, Nov 11 2015, 02:29 AM.
|
|||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Fordy | Nov 10 2015, 06:02 PM Post #31 | |||||||||
|
ain't no new thing
|
![]() we've progressively removed all the player interaction that fostered those feelings. at this point there hasn't been any sort of "economy" or significance for money for a long time, all pokemon can and have been acquired and can be generated whenever you want by freeform, players aren't herded along next to each other to travel around the map, interpersonal drama won out and pretty much all permanent negative consequences outside of what the player themselves endorsed or manufactured has been stripped out, you can be an antagonist in only a purely abstract way, and, you know, countless other examples. intentionally or just as a result of time, al of the the "resources" have been rendered trivial so i'm now forced to think, there's no real way to make a go of this without a reset. which is easy for me to say because i already did that. i'm turning all the way around on this i think, i'm starting to think the "game" was the original source of motivation and drive for all this, and that ultimately the writing is a vehicle, a vehicle we really value, but not something that can encourage activity on its own Edited by Fordy, Nov 10 2015, 06:03 PM.
|
|||||||||
541 ![]() oh! sweet nuthin'APL: 5 | ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| FuzzyMittenz | Nov 11 2015, 02:10 AM Post #32 | |||||||||
|
Pidgey
|
Fordy, what I think that you are addressing is the root cause of some of the deterioration: almost everything in Legacy changed, and when it did, it became less and less like the Legacy of old. I mean, from what you just described, I can't imagine wanting to play here; it's nice that you could have anything you wanted if you wrote long and hard for it, but that's not a game. What you're describing is an interactive novel with no true "point". So now the question is: does the game just do a hard reset, or do you do something even more radical? Something that would allow older players to redeem some of their exploits, time, and interaction with Legacy, or a system that spurns all of that for the hope of drawing a new and vibrant player base? A method could be devised that would essentially render older players at a slight advantage while not leaving players who are brand new out in the dark. Something that I always planned was a contingency plan in the event that something truly catastrophic ever occurred in game, or if the world had to be equalized. There are plenty of examples in the game of the Teams trying to cause cataclysmic events in an attempt to destroy or remodel the world: what if one of them actually succeeded? It's an odd thought to put out on the day that Fallout 4 comes out (pure coincidence), but a dystopian Pokemon universe has the potential of being interesting. If resources are something that are to be made valuable, they cannot be common, and players must begin to think about what they are doing in the long run. I always imagined a game where the PC system has been nearly irreparably damaged (all access to storage has been lost), massive amounts of damage was sustained on all known continents, and communications are essentially down (or extremely spotty). Pokeballs would be extremely rare. All species of Pokemon would have been affected by a virus, though some Pokemon seem to have an immunity. The virus doesn't affect humans, but a rather large percentage of the human population would have been lost to (insert whatever tragic event was set off by Team ____ that terribly backfired). The world would be in chaos. Players could band together and try and go about surviving, either by trying to set up an establishment/restoring a city, somehow trying to find a cure for the virus, or just by becoming Trainers, seeking out the elusive Pokeballs, and capturing the Pokemon they find that are immune to the virus. I could see this being something that would be a sort of "party based" system similar to D&D. Team battle dynamics wouldn't be rough to figure out. Would definitely need some serious fleshing out as far as storyline and what changed in the world. _______________________________________________________________ The alternative is to go the complete opposite route, and not do a wipe, but do a system rollback. You could use the storyline about someone figuring out a way to hack Pokeballs and forcibly reverting the Pokemon back to newborns (level 5), or some other McGuffin that would take the strength of players back to a reasonable level. There's not necessarily a need to force interaction with other players, so long as the Mod:Player ratio was strictly maintained. To avoid burnout, it's probably best to have two solid Mods for every 6-10 players. I think that there's something to be said about letting PC dynamics evolve naturally. Edited by FuzzyMittenz, Nov 11 2015, 03:38 AM.
|
|||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Maverick | Nov 11 2015, 06:24 AM Post #33 | |||||||||
|
"How many assholes we got on this ship anyhow?"
|
I haven't got to read and catch up on all this but fuzzy mentioned something about decade old characters. When I was prowling other sites I found one that had solved this problem by giving their characters life spans. The characters owner could choose how their character exited the scene when the time came. This was a wolf site btw, so literal life spans was feasible. Here you could give a character so many years to accomplish something and then they just retire. If we'd had this implemented 10 years ago, we wouldn't have been trying to find ways to balance new characters and old characters to keep things fair. Just a thought. I'll chime in again when I finish reading. |
|||||||||
| ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Sala. | Nov 11 2015, 06:30 PM Post #34 | |||||||||
![]()
the bird of hermes
|
Fuzzy, who were you back then? I don't recognize your current name, but I'm sure we worked together if you go back as far I did. And no, you weren't the only one. As far as what you've said, I agree with most of it. I think I left before the drama took place, though, so I'm out of the loop with regards to that. |
|||||||||
![]() APL: 12. | ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Maverick | Nov 11 2015, 07:20 PM Post #35 | |||||||||
|
"How many assholes we got on this ship anyhow?"
|
Read/skimmed sorta caught up now. A complete reboot? I'm game. A new theme/land? Hell yes. (I'm not making any more maps though.) Dystopian society? Not sold on this one. It's a common theme on other sites, pokemon and otherwise and I've never been a fan. I'm not a fan of the present day sorta futuristic theme we have going on either. I think right now we need a firm number of the people commenting and watching this thread who would be willing to commit to rebuilding the site (reboot or no reboot) and how they would be willing to devote their time (even if that's only by playing and voting on what direction we take). |
|||||||||
| ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Fordy | Nov 11 2015, 09:10 PM Post #36 | |||||||||
|
ain't no new thing
|
i'm not in favor of ditching our current setting, i don't think. i think we can do just about anything we want within in it already and we're not gonna really hit something better. obviously, i'm willing |
|||||||||
541 ![]() oh! sweet nuthin'APL: 5 | ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| FuzzyMittenz | Nov 12 2015, 02:29 PM Post #37 | |||||||||
|
Pidgey
|
@Sala - We did indeed work together. I think the drama had just begun when you hit the road. It's Greg. With that being said, I have no interest in this devolving into a flamewar, nor do I have any interest in subterfuge. I spent a long time last night reading through logs and reliving the idiocy that I exhibited when I was 14. I just celebrated my 27th birthday last week, and if it has to be said, things have obviously changed in my life. Idiocy is prevalent among all teenagers, but combined with my ego and my unchecked ability to manipulate others, I did terrible things to this place, and (echoing the sentiments of quite a number of players) I was a dick. At this point, it might be better if I don't even plan on participating in the actual reboot, but I'll be damned if I don't try and offer advice or assistance to this place. I cut my teeth here; most of the reason that I can say that I am a published author for a tabletop RPG company today is the experience that I picked up writing (both playing and Modding) here. Like I said: no subterfuge, no games, and I don't even need to be involved in the actual results. I have picked up almost a decade of experience running games and writing systems and processes for tabletop RPGs; the least I could do is offer insight. If allowable, I would happily do more. I'm well aware that I'm technically skirting a "permanent ban" by logging in here. No such administrative action would be required in this circumstance; if I'm not going to be able to help productively, or if my mere presence is enough to discourage someone from participating in this discussion, please advise me of this fact and I will remove this from my mind. @Mav I'm watching, and interested. I would be willing to invest my time to both assisting in writing systems, playing, or Modding. Per the above response to Sala, however, it's likely that the most I would be able to hope for would be to offer advice. I have a relatively stable schedule, and am available nights and weekends. |
|||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Fordy | Nov 12 2015, 02:49 PM Post #38 | |||||||||
|
ain't no new thing
|
what a twist! lmao doesn't matter to me, personally, even if you deleted the whole site it would be no huge loss at this point Edited by Fordy, Nov 12 2015, 02:56 PM.
|
|||||||||
541 ![]() oh! sweet nuthin'APL: 5 | ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| DarthEevee | Nov 12 2015, 04:26 PM Post #39 | |||||||||
|
Cute and Fluffy Evil Overlord
|
Well, sorry for disappearing again but that pesky thing called Real Life stabbed me in the face again. I've said this before on other sites, and I'll say it here at the moment: A reboot is more likely to ensure I stay gone right now, rather than get me to come back. Now also this: THIS DOES NOT MEAN IT IS A BAD IDEA. Honestly, one place I used to RP on...probably a full reboot would be the ONLY way I'd consider playing on it again. This place may, in some ways, be in a similar state, but at least here I have never felt like my characters have been forced to stagnate in a static world. Anyhow, in the matter of a reset, it could help or it could hurt. Especially if things went back to the state of having pokemon rarities (outside of legendaries) matter to a major degree. I want to play with what I want to play with, and I'm sure I'm not the only person. Make it too hard for me to get an eevee with a character that I want to have one, and that kills my enjoyment. I don't pick my pokemon on power or rarity of attainability, but on what I find appealing, interesting and/or appropriate to the character or their development. Having it nearly impossible to get the non-legendary pokemon out there isn't going to help the game any. Having the 'rarer' breeds like the starters and the like become more available to players didn't kill my interest in playing, either. Site wide events probably wouldn't be a bad idea, and one shots with throwaway characters I toss into them might attract me into a 'no commitments' sort of interest in throwing a random thing out, but I can't really say if it would unless the premise interested me and at this point, I don't know what would, I fear. I'm kind of sitting more in a state of 'interested observer' when it comes to most things here. The trouble I also have with a reboot is simply that I am a slow player because I have limited free time, so it takes me a long time to get a character anywhere, compared to other people, at times. Being forced to retire someone because 'their time is up' is kind of a buzzkill for people like me because it takes so long for us to make progress. On the other hand, that doesn't mean that people like me should be holding a site back, either, so I'm again saying that the points here are fair and reasonable and may not be the wrong track to sniff around on. I'm just saying that I'm not sure they'd renew my interest. But then, I'll be the first to admit here that I'm not sure if anything at all would actually renew my interest in RP in this fashion any more. I enjoy play-by-post, in a sense, but at this point...the actual character progress it gives me feels almost glacial by comparison to other things I've done. I've been burned one too many time in MMO/Chat-style RP games by DM favortism, stagnation, lack of game balance, and the like, that I really don't know how I'd feel about that, either, any more. But I don't know. I just...don't feel the place any more. The thing that attracted me here was the ability to not be punished for going my own pace (character time limits) while having the freedom to follow or ignore certain constraints of the game (HMs, gyms, linear paths between towns) and simply explore a world and form relationships between characters. The slowing down of modding probably did not help in some ways, but I also don't feel right in asking people to give me a story any more unless I'm going to be trying to do the same for others. Having been a mod, as a result, and then losing the ambition to write for others also killed my enjoyment eventually. Because then I felt guilty if I just continued my own story, but I also didn't want to feel like this place was a job, which if I kept trying to force out mods, that's what it was feeling like. It takes a special person to be a gamesmaster or storyteller; I should know, I married one. I don't know how he keeps the interest in the story and the setting alive, continues to come up with where things will go next, and actually plots out and keeps a million different NPCs straight in his head, let alone how he does this for multiple stories and settings. But he does it because he finds it interesting and enjoyable to make a world, and then watch other people explore it. And someone like that could probably revive a place like this...for as long as they had the time, energy and interest to commit to the site. To me, that's I think what eventually caused this slide. The fact that true storytellers, people willing to sacrifice their own time to do other things and make their own stories for their own characters in favor of writing ones for others, became burned out, got too busy, moved on to other things, or otherwise left the site for whatever reasons. Which should not reflect badly on them any more than it should on any of us that remain. People should only do a thing if it's fun to them, and if they are willing/have the time for it. *shrugs* I don't know if there's something that can be done to fix that, and like I said, I don't know that I could find myself with the energy/inclination/interest to rejoin anything, but for now, that's kind of what I feel like I see having happened. *shrugs* Maybe a reboot/restart would help. At this point, I admit that I don't really see where it'd hurt, but I also freely admit that it would not draw me, personally, back to the site and is equally likely to make me relegate myself to staying in 'friendly lurker' mode forever after, too. But please don't take that as a reason not to do it, either. I don't know if I'd come back even if you didn't, so I'm simply offering my personal current opinions and perspectives on what I see in general about all this. I just hope it helps. Edited by DarthEevee, Nov 12 2015, 04:29 PM.
|
|||||||||
Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the present. ~Oogway
EVERYTHING ELSE
| ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Curtis | Nov 12 2015, 04:29 PM Post #40 | |||||||||
|
Articuno
|
So, I know I've been floating about watching this discussion go on. To be honest, I'll always feel like a junior member of Legacy. That being said, there's always been a part of me that wants to see this place rolling again. I've got an urge to write, and even did so quite a bit for a hot minute this past summer here. I for one would be willing to help in any way, whether it be plot development, or even something simple as maps. I know there's been a bit of a debate going on if the system should reboot as a whole wiping the slate clean for all, or a re-working of rules. Personally, I might have to agree. While keeping the logged games of old seems tempting.. I think what this place needs is a whole new start where all can come in as equals. In a way, it'd make things much more attractive to perspective new members. That being said... the history of this region is well established. Maybe that doesn't need to be scrapped. A time-skip? Things could change if the setting moved forward a few hundred years, and there wouldn't need to be a massive revision of maps either. Same region, but it'd make everyone start with all new people. A timeskip would also allow for any number of plot-lines to pick up, depending on which direction most people wanted to go as a whole. If effort, and time are required... well.. it's no secret I've got both of those. ^.^ Not to mention a undying will to see this place succeed. Also, Greg, the events you speak of were before my time. I doubt you'd even know who I am, but either way. Kudos for you for making your identity known. That must've taken some guts, especially considering the happenings described in your post, and what'd I'd heard in almost the 10 years I've played here. Despite everything that's gone on, it's nice to see this place is still a milestone in your life, as it is for us all I'm sure. I for one see no problem with you being involved in this discussion, especially considering all you want to do is help. The past is the past, and your input is greatly appreciated. I hope others share my view, and don't see it as a problem. |
|||||||||
|
CURTIS MICHAELS | ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Maverick | Nov 12 2015, 05:09 PM Post #41 | |||||||||
|
"How many assholes we got on this ship anyhow?"
|
There's a lot a person can do without having CP control. So at this point I don't give a damn who Fuzzy really is. What I care about is if we have enough folks willing to work together to resurrect a game. Expect a roll call type thread in the near future. |
|||||||||
| ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| FuzzyMittenz | Nov 12 2015, 06:42 PM Post #42 | |||||||||
|
Pidgey
|
Anyhow, in the matter of a reset, it could help or it could hurt. Especially if things went back to the state of having pokemon rarities (outside of legendaries) matter to a major degree. I want to play with what I want to play with, and I'm sure I'm not the only person. Make it too hard for me to get an eevee with a character that I want to have one, and that kills my enjoyment. I don't pick my pokemon on power or rarity of attainability, but on what I find appealing, interesting and/or appropriate to the character or their development. Having it nearly impossible to get the non-legendary pokemon out there isn't going to help the game any. Having the 'rarer' breeds like the starters and the like become more available to players didn't kill my interest in playing, either. Site wide events probably wouldn't be a bad idea, and one shots with throwaway characters I toss in helps. @Darth: You bring up valid points. Resources that are both limited and rare are absolutely required in any game that is attempting to draw in a crowd of players and sustain their interest; the problems that occur when the most desired items in a game are given at-will by one specific person (or a team of people) are, generally speaking, absolutely toxic to any plans of longevity. When you begin discussing "playing a character that you want to have an Eevee", for example, there are certainly ways to write this into a character's storyline...but there would have to be drastic stipulations on such an event; the thing would have to be sterile, would have to in some way be tied to the user so that if it were stolen it would be useless, etc. Otherwise, in a game utilizing resource management, you would have a huge target painted on your back by any antagonists while simultaneously being inundated with requests to breed or trade. There is also the issue of other players in the community: such rewards would, of course, have to be earned, but HOW would they be earned? In early Legacy days, the rewards that were given upon building a character were based upon the quality of writing in the character profile. The system rewarded the "best writers" by giving them extra resources in the beginning of the game, or allowed them a way to "earn" some sort of character twist (such as starting with an Eevee). Writing quality was also a determining factor in the rarity of the Pokemon you encountered and the success of any sort of "quest" your character might be undertaking. Plot exceptions for starting characters that are well thought out, written, and played, are all certainly good ideas to ensure that the game attracts the kind of players that comprise the best gaming communities. The "best writers" stick around, because they feel accomplished, and because they are catered to. At the same time, the game world was not designed to lock you into being a protagonist. There was a very real body of players that wanted nothing more to bring Team _____ away from the concept of being bumbling buffoons, and simultaneously satisfy all of those urges Pokemon players had to just steal that damn Pokemon that you couldn't get in whatever version you were playing at the time. This meant that the system inherently had to be designed to allow players to steal, lie, cheat, and bribe...which it was. A horrible facet of the Pokemon world was in inefficiency of the "law enforcement", and Legacy picked up where canon left off in that respect. There wasn't any lucrative opportunity to be had for a PC policeman, either, so there were very few of them. At one point, it was a very real possibility that there were more bad players than good, and if I remember correctly, the Admins eventually had to bring in NPC police to successfully thwart some of the more serious plots that were around. These sorts of things happen in an "open world" environment. Competition was fierce. There was also no rule that confined someone to the character archetypes that they had initially written, so many "guardians" became the "bad guys" once the competitive edge was realized. The flip side of the coin might very well be what Legacy turned into. I'll admit that I haven't taken the dive into the current rules of the site, primarily because, let's face it, my identity might very well mean that I don't have the opportunity to play a part in the project, and I did not want to become too invested. I could see that a game where you could get anything you want with relative ease, just by RPing it out and having the quality approved, as being something that would draw a number of players. The character that was built in their head through the long years of having their dreams confined to a three inch screen is right at the other side of acceptance. A lack of resource management would take care of the "bad guy" issue, because there would be no real benefit to being an antagonist unless the player just really wanted to fill that niche. The thought follows that, given everything they wanted in a character, the game would then revolve only around players participating in interesting, engaging roleplay with one another. Everyone would have their dream characters within the span of a month or so. Pursuing legendary Pokemon might be an interesting enough questline to keep a few of the players engaged for more than six months. This is where the theory being discussed falls apart: most players, given everything they have been chasing in a game, will quickly tire of it. And so a dichotomy shows itself in the player base: in one hand there are the players that want to work to get their character to where they want it to be, to have to grind for levels and be active, and in the other hand you have the players that don't have a huge amount of time to invest in the game and are uninterested in anything other than scratching an author's itch whenever they have the spare time. Finding a system that would treat them equally would be great. One suggestion that I would throw out there immediately is to require a minimum amount of posts and character development before allowing multiple characters. I think that, once a player has shown that they are committed to fair roleplay and to be a quality contributor to the stories that they are involved in (yes, even if it means they are not the "best writers"), there could certainly be an option to apply for an advanced character. I'm still up in the air on whether or not it would be better to have players trade in their beginning character and start their advanced character from scratch (with all of the perks of being recognized as a Legacy-approved roleplayer), or to have a maximum of 2 characters, with the second character being an "advanced" character after so many posts or an application. These second characters would be able to apply for something special, but I still can't see choosing their own full teams. Just now, I've also thought that a player could apply for an "Advanced Event" instead, essentially making their initial character eligible for something similar (a special Pokemon encounter, perhaps a financial windfall, or a multitude of other options) that would be earned on a fast-track pace. This way, players such as yourself would be able to show their commitment to fair and engaging roleplay over the course of six months or so, and when they have reached a certain milestone, they would qualify to apply for an advanced character. The milestone doesn't have to be a certain number of posts, either, but just signs of activity and the quality of roleplaying (again, not writing, per se). Does it mean that all players have to invest some of themselves into a character that's different than the one they want to play? Maybe. But it would be strictly enforced and ALL players would be held applicable, and in the six months that they are developing their initial character, there would always be a chance that they took the first step towards building their "dream character" from scratch. There was a part of the chat logs I was reading last night where someone made the comment about the hilarious polarity between asking for "maturity" when "playing Pokemon", but I think that everyone in this thread would be happy to be involved in a community of only twenty or thirty semi-active, skilled, mature and invested roleplayers. There is something special about building your character through roleplaying, though. About throwing the wisp of a concept into the wind of chance and letting the creative writing process of yourself and others snowball into something that is completely outside the realm of what you would have designed for yourself...and enjoying the ride along the way. When a character is born, they should not be full-formed: a fully formed character belongs in a book, not in a roleplaying game. A RP character should be sloppy, and shifting, and when the imagination finally comes together on the other side of their development, it's almost like meeting in person a friend you've only ever spoken with on the telephone. I've played probably 45+ characters in my life throughout all types of RP, but I can truly remember only four of them; they are my old friends, the concepts that I fleshed out until I could almost slip that character's personality on like a mask, but every one of them took time. None of them are what I thought they would be, but I couldn't imagine having had as much fun if I had been asked to say exactly what I wanted my character to be when I started it (and then had actually been given it). Those are my thoughts on the matter, at least. |
|||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Jance | Nov 12 2015, 08:34 PM Post #43 | |||||||||
|
Mega Venusaur
|
Thanks everyone again for continuing to contribute to the discussion. Honestly I'm just glad folks are here discussing things, gives me hope that the site isn't completely dead. I've been with Legacy longer than any other RPG forum site (at least not since a little old forum and website based Equestrian sim I played as a teen and that site did shut down, without much warning too). And yet I've still not been here as long as most of you others. I wasn't here during certain past events and welcome the input of anyone who still cares about the site. I've mixed feelings on a restart. This has been one of the few 'games' where I haven't been an altoholic so I'm pretty attached to my current character and did want to keep developing her though I've not been sure how to do that lately. Still that 'new character smell' is always exciting. But yea that's the biggest issue with a reset is that folks have a put a lot of time and commitment into their current characters and loosing that is disheartening. Though if we readjust the system and make it a bit easier to advance so you could reach level 50 in less than a year or so that would help. Also I'm not sure how a completely new land would work out, especially since folks barely touched Jgsei - though I know it's not exactly easy to get to - and I'd hate to loose all the hard work Mav's put into our current region map. Plus at some point we'd probably want to create a new map so somebody else would need to tackle that. Honestly I kind of like the Fallout setting idea - roaming the region with your faithful pokemon companion(s) and your customize weapon and armor, lawlessness running rampant, the region split into various factions and territories, law enforcement falling to those of high moral fiber, etc. - but that might just be 'cause I'm taking a break from wandering Boston right now and have Fallout Fever. *cough* But yea, something like that could be combined with a time-skip, maybe time-travel, plot. Folks could actually keep their old characters and maybe they get teleported to the not too distant future, maybe by Celebi again. Though I think Jgsei has a similar setting already. 'Course with time travel you could go in the opposite direction and travel to a past version of Opaddeka and go the whole pre-tech society idea back to when stuff like Apricorns were the latest in Pokemon catching technology. This is kinda like the Jgsei setting too, hmm. As far as antagonists go, I think bringing some of that back would be interesting. Being a goody-two-shoes all the time gets dull. But of course you always run into the problem of people getting upset at having their pokemon stolen or their character being killed or something silly like that, no idea why. ;) I think it would be necessary to have such actions be met with more consequences, making such things a higher risk for the player, high reward/high risk. And if it's PvP then the victim would have multiple opportunities to "get revenge" so to speak. I'd suggested a reputation type system in our previous rules reboot that would affect how folks in the region reacted to you and such. A good rep meant good things from "good people" and a bad rep meant bad things from "good people" but good things from "bad people", etc. This was part of my initial idea with my special event I'd suggested, a sort of experiment to see how characters might handle not being able to completely trust one another and never knowing if someone's planning to stab you in the back. @Fuzzy One thing about the idea of rewarding the "best writers" is that's sort of a opinion based, non-qunatifiable notion. How do we determine who is considered a "best writer"? And if someone's regularly active and putting a lot of effort into the site but just hasn't quite grasped the nuances of role-playing, storytelling and character development, I don't want them to feel punished. I'd like to be really careful about showing any sort of favoritism, I think that in part lead to some drama that's cropped up in the past. I understand the notion though, if you feel like you're being rewarded for your hard work you're more likely to continue that level of hard work. Folks shouldn't feel like no one cares about their story, which I also think has been a latent issue, especially when it came to Freeforms. I'd like us all to be on more even ground. Curtis said he's always felt like a junior member, and he's been here at least three months longer than myself, going by his join date. We all contribute to the site, just people's mere presence in the Active Users page makes folks feel like they're not alone on the board. One thing that I know a lot of people were uncomfortable with were changes made behind the scenes in the pornhouse that they had no say in. We're a small community, I think being more open about our plans and things would be good, have everybody work together on changes instead of a couple random people who only have their ideas to draw from. (Hence this thread) We'd save the pornhouse behind the scenes stuff for special event and storyline planning and the occasional disciplinary issues. I'd like to let folks continue to have as many characters as they feel they can juggle under the notion that they'll be a more limited on modding attention. Having a post count/character development requirement before you can create more characters might be okay, that way new members would have to invest some time into their "main character" before jumping to a new one. "Advanced Characters" could be interesting and the "Advanced Event" could be like what I'd suggested in my event where you could create a level 50 character and then they'd earn items and pokemon through out the event and wherever they were at that the end of the event would be their starting items and stats Anyway, I'd like to focus the discussion a little more and come to a consensus on how we actually want to proceed. We've a lot of stuff swirling around in the thread so far and I'd like to get organized. From what I've read so far this is likely what I would do if I had sole control of the site: - Go ahead with a restart but allow for people the option of keeping their current character - Revive mod based system, make it and open threads the standard, you can continue to have your own modded thread while participating in as many open threads with other players as you like, folks would only have one modded thread per character though - Revive Freeforms, make them less about getting a good grade and more about how you want to tell a special part of your character's story, any rewards from a Freeform based more on the flow and logic of the story rather than how many words someone managed to cram into it - Keep the World board, skipping around from forum to forum was a bit tedious though I know it sort of helped show your progression and sort threads a bit - Keep "Character Levels" revise them into a straight up EXP type system where you gain experience through every action you take and every post you make, bonus experience for various 'achievements/milestones' received throughout your journey - Keep "Homebases", having an all in one place to track all your little counters and such is nice - Have more periodic, specialized, DM style events that span several months - Have more stuff for antagonistic characters with high and challenging consequences for their actions, but high reward for those who take such risks, maybe have a bounty and reputation system, have special perks for both antagonistic and protagonist characters based on reputation - Try to have more options for progressing and developing your character, Mav and I had been mulling around the idea of "character specializations" ala Elder Scrolls and other such RPG styles - Option for creating "Advanced Characters", an established high level character, likely created through a special event, event would determine what items and achievements the character starts with - Make Legendaries legendary, again Mav and I had been talking about changing how we handle Legendary quests and instead of an all out gang rape and pokeball spam they'd be more like the HM quests and you wouldn't actually capture the legendary to use like any of your other plebe pokemon but you might gain the legendary's favor/loyalty/animosity and be able to summon it, using it's emblem, to aid in special events or dire situations or perhaps have to contend with it again as it seeks revenge for your initial attack or abuse of it's power, but essentially you'd create some sort of bond with the legendary which could be for good or ill - Make Rares special again, perhaps 'rares' would be limited on the number of times they could be bred or not breedable at all, very limited on the number of places they can be found or even need to be obtained during special events Edited by Jance, Nov 12 2015, 11:15 PM.
|
|||||||||
|
Old
| ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Fordy | Nov 13 2015, 12:29 AM Post #44 | |||||||||
|
ain't no new thing
|
jesus there's so much to respond to. too much, so i won't try i think greg has said a bunch of great stuff and perfectly described the appeal of Legacy up through whenever it was that we switched regions. maybe mostly pre-invisionfree even. i think an issue with going 100% with that "side of the coin" like you said is that it's only a handful left that even know what that looked like. and thanks to jance for pushing things towards getting more specific and i'll also do the "if i just decided everything right now", gonna be repeating a lot of what everyone is saying though: reset, shift the focus to jgsei, everyone has new characters and your old ones are retired but retiring is not dying. you can visit them one storyline a month, see what they're up to. otherwise, you've got your new character. at a certain point we do the "advanced character" stuff jgsei would be sick. it's basically totally unexplored. it's starting a new world without having to make it up. and it's connected to the old one and we already premade the barriers to returning. it's smaller which is good because we are and we want people to be closer together and interacting more the general format of the site is what i said before: let's try and always have a main storyline going on. it can be as relatively low maintenance as an Eclipse or it could be someone has to be modding the whole thread every time everyone posts. besides that is your solo journey. i guess i say besides because that's how i feel but it's up to you which you favor more heavily solo-journeys have to be modded, and you have one of them. you can't have a half dozen self-declared "non-canon" threads going on and split your timeline a millions different ways. i'm undecided on non-canon areas period, really. as a result of the setting something like poketechopia doesn't exist and i don't really like the idea of homebases just existing and you can be having a separate thing happening there whenever. maybe there's a creative solution, idk yet freeforms remain, but reward purely experience. maybe. the problem is i don't want to limit, like, anything jin's ever done or people truly stretching the limits of what fits into the "game". but at the same time, the current way freeforms are set up is almost... OP? it's gamebreaking, it's the most powerful option and it's "outside of the game", in a way. which is weird because this is what i was arguing was the best thing a couple days/weeks ago but i guess i really have completely changed my mind on this. maybe something like that deserves to break the game. i'll just leave that open-ended. there's no more world forum, i'd go back to every area and city is a forum, except that means something now. i think, within reason, if you're in the same forum-area as someone else, you're kind of aware of it. i think we way limit the number of landmarks and make these areas kind of crowded- like, there's only 5 or 6 different spots that you can actually be in the hydrophobic desert and if someone else is there that's something that you both notice unless someone is trying not to be noticed. drop character levels/apl entirely. just look at everyone's party when modding. and with that we're rolling back just about everything. some pokemon are rare and that means they're hard to find. there's only one of every legendary and whoever catches it has it. bank interest doesn't exist in a significant way. when you are traveling, you can interact with other people, in positive or negative ways. there are consequences for those actions. i think we should look to plan the game so it takes... about a year to beat. and by that i mean "you've beaten all the jgsei gym leaders and have the ability to travel to opaddeka", assuming jgsei has no elite 4 which i am. i think that's a good scale. well really i think it's a ridiculous and naive one. i don't know what's a reasonable number of "posts" to expect a week. for me i bet it's less than one so really i'm thinking of this game for other people to play. but for those people, they should be able to feel like they've done something no one's ever managed to do and beat what we're calling "the game" and do it before this place is truly dead. i think that's a pretty general idea and you can see some places where we're mostly thinking the same things and other places where we diverge Edited by Fordy, Nov 13 2015, 12:40 AM.
|
|||||||||
541 ![]() oh! sweet nuthin'APL: 5 | ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Maverick | Nov 13 2015, 06:29 AM Post #45 | |||||||||
|
"How many assholes we got on this ship anyhow?"
|
Oh man, so many ideas all over the place. I like most of what Jance said and most of what 45 said. Even the parts that don't agree so I'm all over the place on opinions. I like the idea of refocusing the game on Jgsei. You get a new map without making one. I like the idea of jumping either forward or backward in the current timeline. One mod and multiple open threads works great. Maybe ditch the boomarang effect of not having items accumulate until a thread finishes - it may never finish. Hit a down, cash in. I would be ok with returning SOME of the smaller forums of the map, but not the full number we had before. That was too many. I'm not sure about maintaining existing characters and somehow making them work. Why I'm iffy on existing characters, and I'm only concerned with my own becuase he's so far ahead of the others. He's probably the last remaining overpowered character built over the course of a decade, the only one that's remotely close to finishing every doable thing in the world of pokemon and he just doesn't fit in a restart with the rest. He was never meant to last this long. I knew when I joined he needed to 'go home' one day I just didn't know how until the palkia/dialga story appeared in the game. By then he was already searching for another set of legends so I tied my own hands and couldn't finish him off how I wanted. As for the rest of his story, I'm happy with where he went but his development is done. He was over done, catching a shit ton of pokemon and battling gyms were never part of his story but thy happened anyway. All that being said, I COULD solve that problem and give us a storyline for the time skip by simply writing the end of his story. Ready made event. Alien conjures wormhole that bends time and space, shit happens. Annnd I've ran out of time...lucky you. Edited by Maverick, Nov 13 2015, 06:29 AM.
|
|||||||||
| ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Fordy | Nov 13 2015, 12:12 PM Post #46 | |||||||||
|
ain't no new thing
|
to clarify, i don't want any of the opaddeka forums on the main boards, those go under one "opaddeka" umbrella until they become relevant. with jgsei you could use subforums to get it down to... maybe 10 or so different boards visible just by scrolling down. i just think the list of areas with their descriptions is enticing, more so than "The World" with a placeholder description the reason i think letting people dick around with their old characters every once in a while isn't a big deal because the goal of this reset would be to make them irrelevant. anything they do would be external to the new focus of the story. idk if a timeskip is super necessary (don't know exactly how jgsei is set up at the moment) but if you did do that then anything they did wouldn't even be happening at the same time the game is set in anymore. but if done right it could add a lot of depth to the setting/expand the stories and settings of the game. like say at some magical pie-in-the-sky future point we've got... 15 whole people all active at once and everyone's been using new characters for months, what're these old characters up to now? maybe there's even something big going on, maybe it could turn out to be relevant for the new setting, maybe it doesn't matter at all and it's just a little distraction. either way i think it could be interesting. a lot of these characters have been around for way too long, they have to go away, but they don't need to be forgotten about i don't think i also still have a hankering to bring back the Legendary Posts forum. if having more of a driving plot/story is something people are interested in than this is an easy way to establish the "canonical stories" that can give you a picture of what's going on. even without that it's something i think could be important, just to catalog what happens and recognize when someone has done something worth reading. to show off people's skill, their creativity, and the "big events" that happen. the amount of "things" that have happened from invisionfree>zetaboards that are all out there somewhere buried on this board, yet with absolutely no distinguishing features to say "here was something cool" "this was something important to the story" is kind of crazy. we should be highlighting the reasons this is a worthwhile thing to do and making sure that you don't have to have been obsessively following the entire website for the last decade to have any idea what things have happened or the context of what's going on Edited by Fordy, Nov 13 2015, 12:30 PM.
|
|||||||||
541 ![]() oh! sweet nuthin'APL: 5 | ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Maverick | Nov 14 2015, 08:19 AM Post #47 | |||||||||
|
"How many assholes we got on this ship anyhow?"
|
Well, discussion is great but I'm ready to start doing something. From what I see on the rollcall so far, we've got at least 5 folks willing to help out somehow. That's enough to start looking at the structure of the board and get some basic feedback. I'll do what I do best - state the obvious. What we want: We want the board to communicate what we are. When a new member finds the site on a search engine, what's the first page they see? This page right? I mean, we don't have a portal page I've been bypassing with a favorites link for 10 years? So there's a few things the passing viewer needs to be able to identify quickly when they visit the page and you really only have a few seconds to communicate this before they decide if you're worth a closer look. In some ways, this is like writing an opening statement on a resume. You can only count on those few sentences to be read, and in that brief space of time, your potential audience is either going to keep reading, or toss you to the side. For example - you're bored with this post already. So what are our opening statements and what do they need to say about us? What you notice first might differ depending on the theme you use, but I think we default to Antite, a very dark color scheme. The first thing I see when I visit the board is the banner. It's at the top of the page and it's a brighter color than everything else. The next is debatable. For me its colors, shapes and font sizes rather than actual words. I want to zero in on that chat box because it's a lighter color and draws my attention. I then want to look at the little squashed block of green colored links. Only then does my brain switch from colors and shapes to font size and actual reading. The last thing I notice is how tiny the font is - and this might just be my machine because I'm running a Surface. Unless you guys notice things in a different order, these items are currently our key communication tools. So what do we want to say about ourselves? This might also be debatable depending on what you first see on the board and what you're looking for. 1. We're a Pokemon RPG based on writing. 2. Our theme. (what makes us interesting?) Our theme currently is an open world based in a modern society with occasional team conflict. 3. How does the game work? Currently you get redirected to a wiki page. 4. Where to you sign up? IF you get passed all of that and decide the place is worth checking out, only then do you start trying to pick apart the boards layout which becomes another means of communication entirely. Thoughts? |
|||||||||
| ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Fordy | Nov 14 2015, 11:30 AM Post #48 | |||||||||
|
ain't no new thing
|
the only reason antite has been the default skin for so long is cuz zetaboards doesn't have shit out there for good custom skins like invisionfree did, no one is willing to make our own, and of all the skins to me at least this is the least hard on the eyes. i think the font size is fine tho i don't know what to do about the header as it stands, it looks crammed together and messy to me at this point and doesn't highlight the actual chat at all to the point that greg (is this what you'd prefer to be called btw?) thought the cbox was the only chat. the scroll text is frequently just all blank space or a link that's constantly running away from you. who gives a shit about the "harper region" at this point it should probably be something like this: cbox if there's no better place for it, then a middle panel of GETTING STARTED (rules, delibird's, profiles, a link to chat with some emphasis on it), then the third panel can be split into useful links and maps and some NON-SCROLL announcements. or announcements can just go underneath the whole thing the banner was only meant to be a placeholder but not it's been there for half a decade basically. i do still use the active topics functionality tho. i also like that it is the map, although it doesn't need to keep being the map, it's important to also be directing people towards the map cuz it's cool and impressive i think what to say about ourselves... i don't know. whatever happened to york or fox's flavorful little intro post? it seems to have disappeared, but maybe there were some good things in there |
|||||||||
541 ![]() oh! sweet nuthin'APL: 5 | ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Jance | Nov 14 2015, 04:32 PM Post #49 | |||||||||
|
Mega Venusaur
|
Mmm as far as themes go, I use the Zest theme rather than Antite. I personally don't care for neon greens and a black background. One thing I tend to do when I first come to the site now is check C-Box and see if anyone's said anything lately. Then I go and check the Active Topics and Active Users to see if anyone's here or been on recently. We had tried three columns before though it seemed to squish on certain screen sizes but we can try it again. And the scrolling announcements was to be eye catching, but if it's too annoying we can change it. As far as the Harper link, yea we don't have any other affiliates anymore and even they don't have a link to our site. Edited by Jance, Nov 14 2015, 05:13 PM.
|
|||||||||
|
Old
| ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Curtis | Nov 14 2015, 04:44 PM Post #50 | |||||||||
|
Articuno
|
As long as the discussion is on skins, I typically over the years have ONLY ever used the Sion Valleri skin we have. It's banner, and the rest of the board looks so much cleaner under this skin... but that's just always been my personal preference. Maybe it's because Gold & Silver were always my favorite games... but let's be honest. I think that Ho-oh & Lugia Banner is the shittttttttt!!!! | |||||||||
|
CURTIS MICHAELS | ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Jance | Nov 14 2015, 05:16 PM Post #51 | |||||||||
|
Mega Venusaur
|
Mmm right Scion Valleri, that's the one theme that squishes a 3 column header really bad. Dunno if there's anyway to widen that theme. | |||||||||
|
Old
| ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Maverick | Nov 14 2015, 08:00 PM Post #52 | |||||||||
|
"How many assholes we got on this ship anyhow?"
|
There is. I've duped it under SV wide. There will be a few kinks in display until I find where they're located in the code and line it all up again EDIT: SV Wide appears to be a functional theme now. I'm working on a new banner for it so what's there might not stick as is. Edited by Maverick, Nov 14 2015, 11:03 PM.
|
|||||||||
| ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Jance | Nov 14 2015, 10:26 PM Post #53 | |||||||||
|
Mega Venusaur
|
So we've gone off on a tangent again, so I figured I'd just create a separate forum for discussing changes and such and having threads dedicated to each element we've mentioned in this thread so far. If anyone else can think of any other topic focus discussion threads we need feel free to write them up, not sure if I got everything we've touched on so far. I'm hoping we can all come to a decision on everything maybe by Christmas? If not at least the New Year and get started on implementing all the changes we need. Really I'd love for the site to be up and running again by 2016 but I can understand everything being delayed due to the up coming holidays. Edited by Jance, Nov 15 2015, 03:12 AM.
|
|||||||||
|
Old
| ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Packerdan | Nov 16 2015, 12:35 AM Post #54 | |||||||||
|
Herp and also Derp
|
I've read through all of this, and all the other posts made throughout the subforum. I came here on a nostalgic fluke today, maybe it was for a reason. I talked to Mav a little bit on chat on how the site got here in the first place, here's my two cents on what I think could/should be done. Take it with a huge grain of salt, you guys have been the ones who have stuck it out with this place, not me. I don't mean to step on anyone's toes, so please no offense meant by any of this. 1.) If you decide you want to reboot (and from the looks of it, you've all but confirmed that's what you are going to do), don't half heart it. Allow a separate thread to say goodbye to your old characters for a sense of closure, but then move on. If everyone is on the same page for the first time in years, have everyone truly be there. Don't undercut what you are trying to do now with what you did in the past. 2.) I know this one is going to sting, but take all your systems, all your charts, all your formulas. Put them in the trash. What do you NEED to have a system for in place in order for the site to run? Not anything fancy, what is actually NEEDED. At some point in time, we (and every generation of this site is guilty of it) decided that we were smarter than we needed to be. Do you truly need a system in place for how happy your pokemon is? How berries grow? Any of the various Legacy points or APLs or what not (I'm way out of the loop, don't mind me!)? Or are they just more rules and systems that a new member has to try to navigate through when they join? Maybe it's just me, but math drains me of interest in...literally anything. I see explanations for how I can do all the various things and maintain all the various aspects of the game, and it seems...a lot. For anyone. Is it worth it? When does the game become a chore? I say make it as minimalist as possible. Hell, do we even need to keep track of levels at all? Things like level, evolution, etc should be dictated by story, not by number. I just don't see the need to restrict or control things that don't have to be restricted or controlled. 3.) If you keep levels, I'm with Fordy on the star system, but I've been that way since we changed it the first go round. 4.) Define the game. And by that, I don't mean the setting. I've seen a lot of talk about dystopian future, or whatever, but that's not the game. The game, in the context of the video games, is beat 8 Gym Leaders, become Champion, so on and so forth. But there is a reason why the protagonists of those game series are 10 years old. Because an adult would find that tedious and boring as hell. That's why in all the years that this site has been running, with all the various powerhouses we've seen come through here, NO ONE has beaten the Champion. (Unless it happened when I was gone, in which case I presume it was Kirin because he's the only one I can even see attempting to do it). So what's the game? What's the point? Is it truly to do whatever you want? Which leads me to... 5.) Competition. A game has a point. A game has a reason for being. There are winners, there are losers. Maybe the point of the game isn't how many gym badges you have. Maybe it's...how many dark type pokemon you defeated during the Eclipse. Maybe it's a region-wide game of capture the flag, I don't know. There are prizes for competing, even better prizes for winning. But the fact that there are winners is the point. When I think of my time(s) on Legacy, I've always hung around in chat and on the site because of friendships. But you know when I was most motivated to post? When I was most motivated to do something on the site at all? When Greg was being a dick (Hi, Greg! Genuinely surprised to see you here! Water under the bridge as far as I'm concerned, we were all a bunch of stupid kids. Hope to see you in chat or something sometime so we can catch up!) Trying to keep up with Nyro. Competition keeps people motivated and makes us strive to actually do more. Let's use that. 6.) No Legendaries. Don't even see them outside of events. I said before Steely caught that damn Raikou, I'll say it until the day I die. The concept of Legendaries does not work. Period. Personal reason? It's cheap. Game reason? They are creatures of myth, forces of nature personified. The concept that someone could capture a thunderstorm or a hurricane in a pokeball is ridiculous. Your mother lied, you aren't special. You aren't the chosen one. It shouldn't be able to be done. And, if for some reason it COULD be done, it doesn't mean it SHOULD be done. They have jobs in the world. Taking one out of commission should have massive, destructive consequences on the whole world. That's what I got. I know my opinions don't mean much, but there you go. I love this site. It's been a part of my life for...I don't even know. Way too long. I don't want to see it go without a fight. But let's be honest here, I have a full time job. I go to college part time. I have a dog, and a family, friends, occasionally go on dates, all that jazz. Legacy isn't going to be a particular priority for me, it just can't be. I do have some free time now and then though, and am willing to help out however I can, should you want/need it. |
|||||||||
|
Justice...Like Lightning! APL 5 MPL 1 LP 30 I have often dreamed | ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Maverick | Nov 16 2015, 06:09 AM Post #55 | |||||||||
|
"How many assholes we got on this ship anyhow?"
|
Dan, good to see you. Good to hear from you, and those are all excellent, logical statements that I hope we use to keep us on track. You asked last night what you can do to help. Well you just did it. Please keep tabs on the various threads we have going and chime in whenever you've got something to say. Give KJ, Randrew and Boss Man a hug from me if it isn't too awkward. |
|||||||||
| ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Sala. | Nov 16 2015, 10:34 AM Post #56 | |||||||||
![]()
the bird of hermes
|
Owo. Hi there, Dan. Nice to see you've been well! Hopefully there'll be a moment where all of us can catch up on things in chat. As per what you said, I want to pick out the notion of defining the game and expand upon it. In the game, you have set objectives to achieve what could be called a nominal level of completion, i.e. beat people, get stuff, be the champion, but here, there's nothing forcing you to do anything. The good thing about that is that you can do anything you want without being constrained by externalities, but the downside is that there's no pressure for you to really accomplish something, and I think that's the sinkhole we all got sucked into. If you define the game, there has to not only be a beginning and an end, but also a realistic timeframe in which those two are connected by. For the games, the nominal storyline of beating the Champion doesn't take terribly long, but tied up in that framework are little mini-events, which can be easily and quickly accomplished while advancing the storyline. In that light, how do we create an adventure that encourages people to try to complete it briskly? What kinds of timeframes are we looking at? Do we want to create events that can be accomplished in a month or two by the entire community and tie all those events together into one big plotline over a year or six months? How do we incorporate new members into events that are already going on, knowing that they'll be too far behind to achieve completion of the objective in a conventional sense? |
|||||||||
![]() APL: 12. | ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Fordy | Nov 16 2015, 10:56 AM Post #57 | |||||||||
|
ain't no new thing
|
big ups for this. i have never once grown a berry tree, hatched an egg, or whatever half the different things you can do in this game are, because the idea of keeping track of the posts or doing this and that just bores me. you should just as easily (easier, actually) check your berry tree and find out what's up, check your egg and find out if it's warm or whatever, etc. etc. things happen when they seem right not because your counter ran out i'm not opposed entirely to these things, there has to be some level of game to the game to give you a reason to do anything. there should be just enough to give you a framework to have fun in, but what we have right now is homework. if we want a system for something, and personally i think something like leveling should have a bit of one, it should be able to be summed up in a paragraph and require minimal overhead. happiness, let's say there's 10 happiness points. 0 is they don't listen to you, 10 is they can evolve, and that's it. you get a point if a mod feels like giving you one. simple, easy. everything should try to be that simple
jgsei has... 6 cities? let's say two of them don't have gyms. 4 "badges" or whatever it is from jgsei entitles you to challenge the opaddeka elite 4 and presumably by that point you can make it there. that's something i could actually see someone completing within a reasonable amount of time |
|||||||||
541 ![]() oh! sweet nuthin'APL: 5 | ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Jance | Nov 16 2015, 11:20 AM Post #58 | |||||||||
|
Mega Venusaur
|
Thanks for your input Dan! Always good to see old Legacy vets stopping in. You've a lot of good points and touched on somethings I've been wondering too. I'm all for simplifying things. That part of our goal at the beginning of the year was to try and make things easier for people. Character Levels so you only worried about one level for everybody, Homebases so you had a place to keep track of all those post required counter things, one World forum so you didn't have to run around and find the right forum to post in, etc. Threw up a post for some focused thought on the game aspect, essentially the purpose of the site. I know some folks are the sort of min/maxer types and enjoy keeping track of all those numbers. But yea there're a lot of maths involved in the site that quickly gets old. Now as I understand it some of these things were implemented in an effort to keep folks from cheating and to lessen any drama that cropped up because someone got butthurt about being stolen from or about someone else getting some pokemon that they wanted or something. So I'm just a little wary about completely removing counters and other things and not having a tangible way of keeping track of things. But I think it would be cool if the story defined when things happened more so than hitting a post count. Edited by Jance, Nov 16 2015, 11:20 AM.
|
|||||||||
|
Old
| ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| FuzzyMittenz | Nov 16 2015, 12:09 PM Post #59 | |||||||||
|
Pidgey
|
Just to clarify: Discussion about these various points has been split into topic-specific threads under the Legacy Reboot Discussions section, yes? Or is this the "throw ideas at the wall" thread? | |||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Fordy | Nov 16 2015, 12:19 PM Post #60 | |||||||||
|
ain't no new thing
|
i guess if you want to say something that doesn't fit into those threads or you want to say a bunch of things | |||||||||
541 ![]() oh! sweet nuthin'APL: 5 | ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Maverick | Nov 16 2015, 06:42 PM Post #61 | |||||||||
|
"How many assholes we got on this ship anyhow?"
|
A few things we should vote on. Should shiny/recolored pokemon be special? We stopped caring awhile back due to...bickering. Also Legends. Off limits, or just let people fight over them like always? Travel. Landmark by landmark still ok? Should we use things to speed this up? HMs. Leave them alone, or give them a purpose on the map/in game play? Secret Quests. Once upon a time, no one knew where to find XX and you had to solve a riddle. Bring this back and refresh them every so often? |
|||||||||
| ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Jance | Nov 16 2015, 08:09 PM Post #62 | |||||||||
|
Mega Venusaur
|
Yea, I tired to separate things we've discussed already into separate threads so we can focus on that one sort of topic and it won't get lost in walls of text. :) This thread remains mainly for any other ideas and things we haven't touched on yet. Making another thread for Legends and will do one for the other things. As far as shinies/recolors I say stick to it being whatever, 'cause really who cares if a pokemon's a funny color anymore. Yea we'll need to vote on some of these things at some point. I think the vote for the restart's pretty conclusive so far. Edited by Jance, Nov 16 2015, 08:10 PM.
|
|||||||||
|
Old
| ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Fordy | Nov 16 2015, 10:17 PM Post #63 | |||||||||
|
ain't no new thing
|
shinies should be very rare imo | |||||||||
541 ![]() oh! sweet nuthin'APL: 5 | ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Jance | Nov 16 2015, 11:04 PM Post #64 | |||||||||
|
Mega Venusaur
|
Think I'll throw up a poll for shines/recolors, that seems like a fairly straightforward of a yes or no thing really. Noticed someone in chat asking about what we're rebuilding for, ourselves or newcomers, and at this point this I'm looking at doing this for ourselves, for those who are here right now and want to be here. We can modify things as needed when new players come. Edited by Jance, Nov 16 2015, 11:04 PM.
|
|||||||||
|
Old
| ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Fordy | Nov 17 2015, 09:55 AM Post #65 | |||||||||
|
ain't no new thing
|
definitely for ourselves, but at the same time our tastes should be appealing to any individual newcomers that might turn up, i would hope. i don't think there's a distinction here | |||||||||
541 ![]() oh! sweet nuthin'APL: 5 | ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Maverick | Nov 18 2015, 06:11 AM Post #66 | |||||||||
|
"How many assholes we got on this ship anyhow?"
|
We tailor the theme and gameplay to suit ourselves since we're the ones we want to keep motivated. The rules and board appearance need to be tailored for the folks who have no idea how any of it evolved. New/related subject: Where do the rules need to be located. Should we put them back on the main board or continue using pedia (how do either of these locations affect new players when they look for them and try to navigate)? Edited by Maverick, Nov 18 2015, 06:13 AM.
|
|||||||||
| ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| FuzzyMittenz | Nov 18 2015, 11:23 AM Post #67 | |||||||||
|
Pidgey
|
When it comes to the location of the rules, I have to admit, the pedia set-up was a little off-putting at first (that's probably due to being old and set in my ways), but the more I look at it, I think that rather effective. Hyperlinking and other organizational tools seem more natural in the pedia format. I can't think of a reason not to use the pedia. |
|||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Fordy | Nov 18 2015, 12:59 PM Post #68 | |||||||||
|
ain't no new thing
|
the one reason would be if we truly get shit so simple that we would only need a couple threads to explain it all. which, i think should be a goal of ours | |||||||||
541 ![]() oh! sweet nuthin'APL: 5 | ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Shadowheart | Nov 21 2015, 04:25 AM Post #69 | |||||||||
|
Rayquaza
|
Hey dudes. So Mav told me you guys were trying to revive the site (again), so I had a few ideas to share. Since starting on a fresh slate is a possibility, it opens up a lot more details to re-examine and introduce new things that could possibly work. I only had an hour-ish last night to skim through the topics and lump it into an indecipherable heap for Mav to check through, but I had time now to think about it and made a few adjustments. Rules First and formost, keep it simple. I'm gonna agree and disagree about the pedia implementation- having to go off-site to look up information is kind of daunting, and as a newcomer I kind of feel like I need to absorb a vast amount of information before I can even begin to think about a character to bring in, which usually isn't the first thing I'd want to do if I want to join a community. I really would appreciate a brief introduction of the site and how it works, a synopsis of the IC world and situation, what I am able to do as a character coming in and, should any of this information resonate with me, have a few links to information that would be considered -optional- reading; something they'll pick up on once their in and wanting to integrate themselves more into it. For the rules in general, you're best making it simple as well, with the standard 'no meta' and 'don't be a douche' and end it with one more: the admins reserve the right to modify rules when necessary and exercise authority on actions which may cause an imbalance in the game. This forces people to consider their actions carefully lest risking having privileges revoked or progress erased, as many times during the active years Legacy continually faced many situations where players took advantage of loopholes in the rules, giving them an unfair advantage for the rest of the community. Its impossible to truly plug every loophole, and you create a more strict, intolerable environment adding rules which should be unnecessary to begin with but were implemented due to abuse. Grinlax used to make random shit happen in these cases, and afterward patch the rules. Something the admins would have to work together in this case, to see whether a players actions would give him an unfair advantage but at the same time making it so that it benefits the site in a way and not just one person. Also suggested, should a pedia be necessary (it really should be a flavor text sort of thing, or a document on the site) to use a more attractive site, like wikia. I like wikias. Story and IC About the game in general, I proposed that since you're considering starting with a fresh slate, then make worldbuilding a part of it. Old Legacy had sites that were already worked out and established, all players had to do was insert themselves into it (also thanks for your hard work everyone that worked on it, especially that fucking landmarks map by KJ. I can't imagine how long it took to create that). But the problem with old Legacy and the recent incarnation was that it was too...freeform. As in, you were free to do whatever you want, but you really had no idea what to do. What was there to do? Everything had been done already, all you needed to do was exist in the space, and for most players (myself included) that wasn't enough to work with. Making worldbuilding one of the possible tasks gives people a goal to strive for, aside from being the very best like no one ever was. There would be some degree of having things already established, but those would be fallbacks or background elements to support what could possibly be done by the players. A revision of this point:
One of Legacy's strengths was, and should still be, the community, and having them involved in shaping the world of Jgsei (or whatever place you plan to use) will give it much more meaning and interest, and generating more possibilities in what could be done. You got a polluted lake with Grimer next to the city which is a source of water? Start getting people to clean that shit. Got an asshole Dragonite near the mines? Let's get someone with a high-level fairy type to go in. This place doesn't have a hospital- would be nice if some grass trainers could help with medicines and stuff. These were things we tried to offer people to do back then as well, but it turned irrelevant because NPCs and other places already had those services, plus were more accessible and easier to coordinate than with someone who had limited time to be on the site at a time. Levelling and Progression As far as progression is concerned, I was and still am a fan of York's Freeform system. It was very simple- taking a post he took the word count as a base and weighed it against other criteria to how cohesive the read was, how alluring, if it was a chore to go through and whether it was worth the rewards people sought for in it. In my opinion, it SHOULD be the main system of progression, which makes the need for mods minimal, unlike the battle system which is heavily reliant on stats and RNG of mods, who also are unfortunately prone to burnout or favoritism and aren't the most reliable way of keeping a level playing field when comparing other people's progress. If anything, I'd like to make that system secondary, if not outright abolished- really Legacy needs to free itself from that burden. As an alternative to somewhat minimalize the use of calculators and stats, I thought that maybe we can keep Pokemon levelling the same way as it was in the Opaddeka era (level up with 3.0 exp), BUT: the only source of exp would be Genexp, which can be acquired from everything BUT outright battling. Meaning more emphasis on writing your battles and less emphasis on making a back and forth 'I did this so waiting to see if it works' kind of thing. In fact, I want less battles in general and more 'do something constructive with your Pokemon' and you will prolly be earning more exp just breathing than battling. No one really kept stats aside from the very broken EV system, which I'd like to bring back a modified version should that be necessary: every Pokemon gives a certain amount of EVs when defeated. This could be their sort-of natural stat bonus they automatically have (Zubat has +1 speed, Snorlax has +3 HP and so on), and as they progress every 10 levels they earn an EV that can be distributed to any of their stats, for a total of 10 on a Lv 100 Pokemon. They could earn more Evs and other perks from a Trust system based on trainer/Pokemon relationship not unlike the Happiness system from before, but haven't really worked that out yet. Aside from that, they learn attacks based on their current level, Tackle is necessary, advanced moves if you still want those, blah. Shinies/ Recolors Also, the whole shiny/recolors debate- shinys are next to pointless with the allowance of recolors or 'modified' Pokemon. Obviously, a Pokemon with a personal touch would be more valuable than any kind of shiny. And thinking openly, I believe Pokemon should be able to have certain 'breed variances' though these should only be slight and not an extreme turn from the standard. Freeforms before allowed for this because of the opportunity to explain them, and I think that should be fine within what the admins are willing to allow. I guess giving shinies improved stats and special moves with are difficult to breed through would be a step to making valuable. Have a quota on a certain time frame and you won't have the site so overrun with them that they lose their appeal. Legendaries I feel pretty strongly on this one...honestly, I was a fan of them being just 'legends'. Being captured pretty much made the whole mystical 'this thing shaped the fucking world' aspect so trivial. Give them a role that influences the RP. Take how in our old storylines they utilized legends to make site-wide changes. They may never be capturable, but they can offer some kind of perk to players, like access to a restricted part of the world or give a certain power or whatever. They should be GODS- that's what a fucking legend is, but they should be to some degree interactive without having to be reduced to Pokemon fodder. That's all I got so far. |
|||||||||
|
Party APL: 38 ![]() Thanks Mira for the sig! ^^ | ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Tsunami | Nov 21 2015, 11:59 AM Post #70 | |||||||||
|
Pidgey
|
I agree with this so much, but I'm not sure that the other players really want it. I suggested a post-war society originally because it would give the opportunity to develop a new nation and give players plenty to do beyond walking the League path. I don't really care what the scenario is, but I think to set this game apart and to give new players a lot to do. I don't want Legacy to be a mainly OOC game like I see a lot that are stuck on the League trail. It ends up being players only playing enough to move to whatever store they need So far everyone wants to start in Jgsei. There was one suggestion that the game begin in a single hi-tech city built by Oppadeka and Jgsei together as a symbol of peace after the war all those years ago. I think that would be cool, but from what I know Jgsei is otherwise mostly wild with the exception of tribal territories. Wouldn't it be cool for players to work to develop the land, dealing with tribes as they do so? Setting up Pokémon centers and shops, and building settlements around them? Anyway, yes to all of this. |
|||||||||
|
------------------------- | ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Maverick | Nov 21 2015, 01:09 PM Post #71 | |||||||||
|
"How many assholes we got on this ship anyhow?"
|
I would like to see a world where the players actually take part in shaping it, discovering new places, and things that can help everyone. To help get the creative ideas flowing, here's blank map to play with. Large Map - click at your own risk
Edited by Maverick, Nov 21 2015, 01:13 PM.
|
|||||||||
| ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Jance | Nov 22 2015, 03:22 PM Post #72 | |||||||||
|
Mega Venusaur
|
Yea I think that'd be a pretty cool objective having areas folks can build up. Perhaps if we go with Jgsei as our main setting we could even be working to unite the tribes and build up the villages and stuff. So discussion's slowed as of late and we've got a holiday coming up this week. I don't want to lose our momentum so I'd like to condense everything everyone's mentioned and start up some polls. Judging from our current polls it looks like folks want to to a full restart and have our setting be Jgsei. Edited by Jance, Nov 23 2015, 04:19 AM.
|
|||||||||
|
Old
| ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Shadowheart | Nov 23 2015, 02:52 AM Post #73 | |||||||||
|
Rayquaza
|
Just to clarify in case it might've been misunderstood, I don't mean for us to have like a blank map and setting and push it into the players hands and say 'okay, fill out the rest.' I meant for it that the new region, setting and story would be already fleshed out, just like Opadekka was. But most of the details will be withheld, at least in the beginning, and released in increments depending on activity, sort of like events. But these details would be flexible and work with what would be going on currently with the players activity, so on some degree the event managers should keep up to date on what's going on and what they can do to adapt their actions to what they plan to introduce in the world. Of another way of explaining, think of it as creating literal fate- the things are already set to happen, but there will occasionally be that one person that can fuck it all up. Or make it better. The dynamic of it makes it more interesting. |
|||||||||
|
Party APL: 38 ![]() Thanks Mira for the sig! ^^ | ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Maverick | Nov 23 2015, 06:02 AM Post #74 | |||||||||
|
"How many assholes we got on this ship anyhow?"
|
For reference the blank map is up so we can decide how to lay out the basic stuff - you have to have something to base your mod off of. This is everyone's opportunity to move/rename cities, general areas, create new areas if we need them and any cool interesting landmarks we want to be on the map. Also do we want to add locked areas or that island 45 was talking about. | |||||||||
| ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Fordy | Nov 23 2015, 10:17 AM Post #75 | |||||||||
|
ain't no new thing
|
a sparkling oasis off the coast of the desert, a thriving metropolis on the edge of the unknown welcome to gregtown, the city that never sleeps! king of the hill! top of the heap! a video tour: Edited by Fordy, Nov 23 2015, 10:19 AM.
|
|||||||||
541 ![]() oh! sweet nuthin'APL: 5 | ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Jance | Nov 23 2015, 10:30 AM Post #76 | |||||||||
|
Mega Venusaur
|
On the pedia, I think it would be better for the core rules to be on the board itself. Then the pedia would be treated like a wiki, or perhaps scrap the pedia and establish our own wiki, and it'll be a place for more general information like details and history of the site, info on the timeline and history of the RP story, indepth information on the regions and so on.
Edited by Jance, Nov 23 2015, 10:30 AM.
|
|||||||||
|
Old
| ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Jin White | Nov 25 2015, 11:32 PM Post #77 | |||||||||
|
existential mage
|
Some points I quite liked:
Let's not take things away from existing players, especially by negating their accomplishments. Let's leave people's teams as they are - at least in terms of pokémon caught - regardless of how leveling changes. |
|||||||||
|
i used to be shy. now i'm reserved. who the #!@% is j i n w h i t e character level: 26 { home base } 43
| ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Tsunami | Nov 26 2015, 02:56 AM Post #78 | |||||||||
|
Pidgey
|
As far as I know, the setting is changing so everything will be changing drastically. I think once the rules and setting are done, we should have some serious discussions about where characters in play are upon the new start of the game. There's also a possibility the timeline might place most characters as 60+ years old. Maybe there can be a percentage of total levels plus bonus Pokémon for veteran players who have to roll new characters.
Edited by Tsunami, Nov 26 2015, 02:56 AM.
|
|||||||||
|
------------------------- | ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Jin White | Nov 26 2015, 08:29 PM Post #79 | |||||||||
|
existential mage
|
All the same: don't take away from steely, frac, cerby, eevee etc if they want to resume. let legacies remain legacies. Something you, greg, even sala need to keep in mind is: when it comes to experience systems, we never failed for lack or trying, or for experimentation. the level grind became tedious, unfulfilling, and irrelevant to our characters' lives, despite otherwise very solid systems in play. |
|||||||||
|
i used to be shy. now i'm reserved. who the #!@% is j i n w h i t e character level: 26 { home base } 43
| ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| Fordy | Nov 26 2015, 10:08 PM Post #80 | |||||||||
|
ain't no new thing
|
my feeling since the start, and i think it should be apparent from the things i've pushed for, is that there needs to be a balance between something new and exotic, returning to this being "a game", while leaving a place for what legacy has turned into, which is decidedly more... experimental? a place for a straight pokemon game to happen and a place for, any of jin's freeforms lol, or a character to choose to NOT play the game. i'll throw it out again: i want to see everyone starting something new, but i don't really see the necessity to abandon what's already here, especially if the focus shifts away as to make it all inherently secondarily. all the opaddeka characters can still be explored, just not as the primary area. |
|||||||||
541 ![]() oh! sweet nuthin'APL: 5 | ||||||||||
![]() |
|
|||||||||
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | ||||||||||
|
|
| « Previous Topic · Legacy Reboot Discussion · Next Topic » |
| Track Topic · E-mail Topic |
6:45 PM Jul 10
|
A big thanks to all the mods and admins who freely volunteer their time and energy to this RPG to help it grow and become awesome.
Hosted for free by ZetaBoards · Privacy Policy










)



63/63 







14.0







+9
+3
+7
+3
+3
+2
+16 




6:45 PM Jul 10