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Gun-grabbers suck.
Topic Started: May 13 2007, 09:17:31 AM (2,335 Views)
GyroNinja
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F3nr1L
May 14 2007, 06:02:33
complete public vote with no particular leaders.

Isn't that Direct Democracy? ;>_>
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Lord Jim
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Yeah, and it's not that good, judging from my history at least.
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Jeff
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roarshock
May 13 2007, 14:25:23
... Has anyone given anythought to the people in america that WANT to own guns for sport? Such as skeet shooting with shotguns, or deer hunting with said rifles? Or how bout rodent control of say squirrles and other such vermin with pistols? As jim said before this is not an issue that can be solved with a law.

...Shooting squirrels with a pistol is a pretty bad way to control them unless you're a dead shot.

Jim, as far as I know, you can't just go and buy a gun anonymously (from a legitimate vendor). I know you can't in this state. You usually have to wait for a few days, provide plenty of identification, and register it. Of course, if most gun crimes were committed with one's own registered gun, we'd have a lot less unsolved crimes.
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Waddacku


How the government works isn't thing about democracy. Actually, democracy is what allows you to have guns over there in the first place.
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reknamarken
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All forms of government suck. democracy sucks a bit less.
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F3nr1L
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Direct* Democracy sucks a bit less.
Representative democracy is flawed in the fact that a small group of people get to decide for the entire population, even when most of the population could disagree.

Direct Democracy, is of course flawed, because when left to their own devices people will often become xenophobic and destroy themselves(this is the entire reason leaders EXIST).

Quite honestly, no government structure will every work effectively on a large scale, period. Now I like a technocracy the best, and that's all great. Other people will have some government structure they like. Really, it all boils down to : Pick your poison.


The thing is, is that most crimes aren't committed with registered guns. In some cases, gun shops/pawn shops have been broken into and the guns stolen, their bar codes filed off, and then sold illegally to gangs and such. While yes, I will admit that many guns that end up in the wrong hands do come from black market means, there are also many that aren't. We cannot stop the black market. We can stop the easy access to guns for buying/theft(break into a house, find someone's gun, steal it with the valuables, anyone?). This will, even if it isn't the largest denominator, stop a significant amount of gun related crimes.
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GyroNinja
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F3nr1L
May 14 2007, 13:23:30
Direct* Democracy sucks a bit less.
Representative democracy is flawed in the fact that a small group of people get to decide for the entire population, even when most of the population could disagree.

Which would be wonderful if it weren't one of the most impractical forms of goverment ever. You can't organize a national election in a nation of 300,000,000 people every single time you want to pass a new bill or modify an existing law (and if there are no leaders, it raises the question of who gets to suggest new bills, who organizes the elections, who enforces the laws, who collects taxes, etc, etc). It'd be a logistical nightmare. <_>
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Waddacku


If a representative democracy doesn't reflect the views of the people, something has obviously gone strange, seeing as the people were the ones who voted.
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F3nr1L
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GyroNinja
May 13 2007, 20:43:31
F3nr1L
May 14 2007, 13:23:30
Direct* Democracy sucks a bit less.
Representative democracy is flawed in the fact that a small group of people get to decide for the entire population, even when most of the population could disagree.

Which would be wonderful if it weren't one of the most impractical forms of goverment ever. You can't organize a national election in a nation of 300,000,000 people every single time you want to pass a new bill or modify an existing law (and if there are no leaders, it raises the question of who gets to suggest new bills, who organizes the elections, who enforces the laws, who collects taxes, etc, etc). It'd be a logistical nightmare. <_>

Which would sadly, require a civilization to start from scratch, so that from the beginning it could be decided and set in stone that is how it would work.
I can immediately see a small constitution arising making any laws based on race, creed, gender, or other such things banned. And it would also set the page for how new bills would be created to vote on. Due to the ever rising population, you would have to get 1/9th of the population to agree upon it, to make it a bill.

Yes, that would make the times of a fairly low population...chaotic. But, it is certainly better than having amendments to it-- if the people could vote on amendments to it, then it wouldn't stop at that. They would want to eliminate it entirely, so that they can be xenophobic.

It is by default flawed now, but it COULD work if set up in a civilization from the beginning, and it could work well.
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Lord Jim
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It didn't work the first time.
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F3nr1L
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Waddacku
May 13 2007, 23:58:36
If a representative democracy doesn't reflect the views of the people, something has obviously gone strange, seeing as the people were the ones who voted.

Every politician never speaks the whole truth. It is very easy to say you aer going to do something, and then not, or do even the opposite.
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Lord Jim
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Yes, but if we take the whole citizenry, which includes an extreme number of uneducated people or simply idiots, you can't say that the majority is the best choice.
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F3nr1L
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Lord Jim
May 14 2007, 10:11:13
Yes, but if we take the whole citizenry, which includes an extreme number of uneducated people or simply idiots, you can't say that the majority is the best choice.

Greece from the start, most people were not educated. This is where things started off wrong(well, Athens, at least. Sparta is a nightmare).

However, now, in modern day, where most people are educated at least to an acceptable extent, it would be entirely plausible. If a society were to start from scratch now, it would be small enough so that the entire population could learn from on another until the point where they were all well educated, upon which schools would immediately be built to teach everything possible, so that their children, and the subsequent children, would all be rather educated from the start.
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Lord Jim
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No, no, we are talking about politics, by education I was not reffering to school.

There are 3 kinds of people, the smart and aware ones, the uneducated concerning politics and the idiots who don't care or wouldn't understand.

Those who know about politics, know what each decision is really about and the consequences are the smart and aware.

Exactly because of that, they can easily manipulate opinions.

The uneducated are kept in confusion, but will earnestly try to make a decision based on what they learn.

The idiot only cares whether he can put a deposit for a fiat and watch his reality shows on a bigger TV.

Consider the percentages and see how easily opinions can be swayed.

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F3nr1L
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Lord Jim
May 14 2007, 10:20:24
No, no, we are talking about politics, by education I was not reffering to school.

There are 3 kinds of people, the smart and aware ones, the uneducated concerning politics and the idiots who don't care or wouldn't understand.

Those who know about politics, know what each decision is really about and the consequences are the smart and aware.

Exactly because of that, they can easily manipulate opinions.

The uneducated are kept in confusion, but will earnestly try to make a decision based on what they learn.

The idiot only cares whether he can put a deposit for a fiat and watch his reality shows on a bigger TV.

Consider the percentages and see how easily opinions can be swayed.

Without anyone to represent, without anyone to be a leader, there wouldn't really be a corrupt political basis.

And in this civilization I speak of, there would be one type of people: The educated and aware.
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