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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 12 2007, 08:07:01 PM (1,906 Views) | |
| Stone Kirby | Apr 14 2007, 12:41:41 AM Post #76 |
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¢¾¢Ü!?
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Dart, if you stopped making stupid insults to neocons/liberals/etc. (as much as they might deserve it >_>) in every post and stopped pretending to be gay/ female/whatever, everyone would appreciate it. |
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| roarshock | Apr 14 2007, 12:53:17 AM Post #77 |
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metalgod.
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hey hey a voice of reason.
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| Stone Kirby | Apr 14 2007, 12:55:10 AM Post #78 |
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¢¾¢Ü!?
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I think it's important to note that you do not think that poor people will starve without welfare. >_>
Conservatives - Say they're going to cut welfare, but increase it instead. Or at least, they used to. Now some of them openly support it. Liberals - Say they're going to increase welfare and do it. ...So yeah, you present a compelling point, F3n. >_> |
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| Hammer Kirby | Apr 14 2007, 08:47:44 AM Post #79 |
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Go outside
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XD |
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| F3nr1L | Apr 14 2007, 10:24:16 AM Post #80 |
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No, Dart, we are serious. Your constant closeminded ravings are more annoying than my senseless arguing. You know why that is? Not only are they closeminded ravings, but then you senseless argue them as well, making you exactly twice as worse as me! |
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| Hammer Kirby | Apr 14 2007, 10:25:06 AM Post #81 |
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Go outside
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I think that's for others to decide, not you... |
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| F3nr1L | Apr 14 2007, 10:26:27 AM Post #82 |
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I speak for the people. |
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| Hammer Kirby | Apr 14 2007, 10:27:51 AM Post #83 |
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I'm no more closeminded than any other libertarian or any other music snob. |
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| Hammer Kirby | Apr 14 2007, 10:31:57 AM Post #84 |
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If you want some real closeminded rants, you should meet my older brother. He's even more of a strict laissez-faire capitalist and classic rock purist than I am. |
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| Abyssal_Shrimp | Apr 14 2007, 04:01:38 PM Post #85 |
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GREGOR SMASH!
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Doesn't mean you aren't. Though I'm tempted to say I find Magus and Jeff to be more openminded than you, or maybe they're just less vocal about it. >_> |
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| Hammer Kirby | Apr 14 2007, 04:06:22 PM Post #86 |
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They're probably just less arrogant and don't try to be as outrageous as I do, because I know that their political views are more or less the same as mine most of the time. I'm mostly just arrogant/outrageous here because I don't get to be either of those things in real life. I'm a pretty boring, mild-mannered guy if you ever meet me in person. |
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| Stone Kirby | Apr 14 2007, 05:19:36 PM Post #87 |
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¢¾¢Ü!?
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I'm no music snob, and I'm not sure exactly what is meant by closeminded here; as far as I can tell, the main difference between me and Dart's positions in political discussions is that I'm less hostile and...well, my jokes are funnier, as they don't involves something stupid about gays, liberals, or neocons every time. >_> |
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| Jeff | Apr 14 2007, 05:24:02 PM Post #88 |
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*Nukes Houston* |
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| Flarebringer | Apr 15 2007, 12:23:36 AM Post #89 |
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Comrade
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Tired. Stupid Science Olympiad. Not thinking straight. Will respond to salient points quickly.
Liberal? Well, alright, I am what I am. College professor? Thanks...I guess. Last time I checked college professors were as literate as everyone else. Ivory tower? And when it comes to ivory-tower, well, if ivory-tower means a disconnect from reality, I advance that it's your points that suffer from that.
A) Explain public education? B) Explain how hunger, lack of income, that sort of thing isn't coercion on your utility? C) What's military spending up to in our buget nowadays? 25%? 30%? If you accept that, you accept that taxes are good for truly nessecary things. Now imagine a world without an moderatly educated workforce, roads, airports, national parks, the Food and Drug Administration (e.g still eating out of The Jungle), banks that don't fail about 193618723 times a year, and every invention that has ever come out of government-subsidized research. You're telling me that taxing for tanks is cool, but taxing for all that isn't?
Turn. And after saying that, you propose a model of government where stupidity and immorality and disdain for rights is set loose with utter freedom? And you haven't "established" it, you've said it with no backup and ignored everything I said in response.
Princeton WordNet: coerce to cause to do through pressure or necessity, by physical, moral or intellectual means :"She forced him to take a job in the city"; "He squeezed her for information" Research plorx?
A) Oh, yay, we have Founders on our side. Just 'cuz they did it doesn't mean that it's cool. Slaveholding? Women's rights, anyone? B) "Stable ownership is the gift of social law, and is given late in the progress of society." - Jefferson. Yes, that Jefferson. C) "All the Property that is necessary to a man is his natural Right, which none may justly deprive him of, but all Property superfluous to such Purposes is the property of the Public who, by their Laws have created it and who may, by other Laws dispose of it." - Franklin. D) You STILL haven't adressed the fact that under every democracy of free human beings, with people given a choice of governments, NOBODY has EVER voted Liberterianism into play in the past 50 years. The closest we came was Reagan, and he still wasn't much of a Liberterian. The only countries which have truly lost control of their economies tend to be post-regional-apocalypic governments like Pinochet's Chile and post-Communist Russia. And those tanked. Rapidly. E) Those founders kinda lived in a time when America was heavily aricultiralized, information technology didn't exist, transportation was slow, and discrimination rampant. Do we go back to horses and buggies 'cuz the Founders used them?
A) Wasn't Murray Rothbard that same anarcho-capitalist nut who wanted no government? If you really wanna take his perspective, be my guest. B) You're right. Government's not like the free market at all. Government: - Never suffers an economic crash. - Has honesty regulated to some extent in law (FDA and stuffs) - Has legislated ahead of private buisness to remove discrimination in the workplace. - Does not create monopolies. - Does not have incentive to charge more than it has to on services. - Does not have incentive to agressivly industrialize and fuck up the enviroment. C) If you don't like it, you can move out to your libertarian la-la-la...oh, right, no free people in the world have ever decided to create one.
The entire premise of libertarianism is that people and the markets can take care of themselves better than the government.
Same. I'm taking out my frustration on debate being cancelled for my school on you guys. >.>;;; I do love how I can be considered right-wing for the internets, though, despite being a liberal in real life.
'course, we're still allowed to debate on them, and what I've done is set out one possible moral philosophy to judge on. Just like I'm attacking libertarianism, you're welcome to come after Rawls.
If you're going to say that, you might wanna adress the veil of ignorance, Darts. Just saying. |
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| F3nr1L | Apr 15 2007, 02:23:24 AM Post #90 |
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Now, I won't be getting into this extensively(though I could, as could Jeff and Magus), but Public School is possibly one of the worst places that our funding goes to. Public schools, while in concept are great, are all basically shit. We need to quit having governmentally funded public schools, and replace that with a per-child voucher system. This will allow the school that are actually good to get money and stay alive, while schools that are awful will not get any funding. This will create natural competition between schools, which, will benefit all by making every school be the best, most effective school it can be. And please don't get me started on what we need to do to teacher's unions. Simply put, it is abolish them. |
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