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Robot Bastards - Discussion
Topic Started: May 26 2014, 02:31 PM (9,584 Views)
BEES
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I've never lived by anyone's rules but my own.
What's not fair about correcting a wrong outcome? I wrote Teresa fighting a cluster. Stabstract isn't a cluster. Had I written it as one bot, I would've had Teresa winning. The match up becomes similar to stingray vs merry Hampton with the stats the bots have.

I think it'd be less fair letting an objectively wrong outcome stand...
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NWOWWE
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Team Blood Gulch Motto
Spatula
Sep 30 2014, 10:44 AM
What's not fair about correcting a wrong outcome?
I should point out that virtually every time a fight has been up for re-writing there has been a critical response to that action so you'd have to have been rather foolish not to expect some kind of backlash from it.
Area51Escapee,Jan 30 2011
01:27 AM
Spatula,Jan 29 2011
11:32 PM
I should go 3-1 this week but it'll probably be something like 0-4 or 0-5.

It sucks going 0-5. You lose all 4 of your bot fights for the week and you also lose at life.
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MadBull
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Superheavyweight
Hey! Who wrote Give Way's result? Give Way is a clusterbot damnit!
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NWOWWE
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Team Blood Gulch Motto
MadBull
Sep 30 2014, 11:09 AM
Hey! Who wrote Give Way's result? Give Way is a clusterbot damnit!
Yeah, and combined they still aren't as fast as anyone else in their conference. :v:
Area51Escapee,Jan 30 2011
01:27 AM
Spatula,Jan 29 2011
11:32 PM
I should go 3-1 this week but it'll probably be something like 0-4 or 0-5.

It sucks going 0-5. You lose all 4 of your bot fights for the week and you also lose at life.
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NFX
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Fuck Bitches Get Crystals
super smash bros is supposed to be one machine but was damaged in transport to the arena :v:
Team Mongoose (358-215)
"The Colour of Awesome"

Braveheart / Crash Blossom / Depth Charge / Broken Ghost / Murder Death Unit / Agent X

RoBattle
Override - 13 pts
MiDAS - 12 pts

it was a gigantic masturbation of polygons :v - That Kode Guy
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GF93
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Vi veri veniversum vivus vici.
NFX
Sep 30 2014, 11:41 AM
super smash bros is supposed to be one machine but was damaged in transport to the arena :v:
WHY IS WALUIGI STILL NOT PLAYABLE.
Ice Cubed Robotics Posted Image
"I will not die until I achieve something. Even though the ideal is high, I never give in. Therefore, I never die with regrets."

Cherry Bomb Classic: Season 2 (8-0)
Swiftsure- 2-0
Torque Dirty 2 Me- 2-0
Ayame- 1-0
Dead on Arrival- 1-0
Barley Picker- 1-0
Lethal Injection 3- 1-0

Robot Bastards 2 (5-5)
Apathy & Lethargy- 2-1
Trump ex Machina- 0-3
Rainbow in the Dark- 3-1 (6-3)

Ruination: The Upheaval (20-8)
Ayame- 6-1
Marauder- 6-1
Dreadnought Mk3- 3-4
Lethal Injection 3- 5-2

ALL-TIME RECORD
Wins: 347
Losses: 230
KodeBreaker
 
Alex Valentine is the hero we deserve.

Notable Achievements on Advanced Robot Combat for make benefit glorious Team of Ice Cubed Robotics
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That Kode Guy
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Ruiner of All
GF93
Sep 30 2014, 11:44 AM
NFX
Sep 30 2014, 11:41 AM
super smash bros is supposed to be one machine but was damaged in transport to the arena :v:
WHY IS WALUIGI STILL NOT PLAYABLE.
<
Posted Image

Team Covenant stuff
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GF93
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Vi veri veniversum vivus vici.
KodeBreaker
Sep 30 2014, 11:50 AM
GF93
Sep 30 2014, 11:44 AM
NFX
Sep 30 2014, 11:41 AM
super smash bros is supposed to be one machine but was damaged in transport to the arena :v:
WHY IS WALUIGI STILL NOT PLAYABLE.
<
Posted Image
Ice Cubed Robotics Posted Image
"I will not die until I achieve something. Even though the ideal is high, I never give in. Therefore, I never die with regrets."

Cherry Bomb Classic: Season 2 (8-0)
Swiftsure- 2-0
Torque Dirty 2 Me- 2-0
Ayame- 1-0
Dead on Arrival- 1-0
Barley Picker- 1-0
Lethal Injection 3- 1-0

Robot Bastards 2 (5-5)
Apathy & Lethargy- 2-1
Trump ex Machina- 0-3
Rainbow in the Dark- 3-1 (6-3)

Ruination: The Upheaval (20-8)
Ayame- 6-1
Marauder- 6-1
Dreadnought Mk3- 3-4
Lethal Injection 3- 5-2

ALL-TIME RECORD
Wins: 347
Losses: 230
KodeBreaker
 
Alex Valentine is the hero we deserve.

Notable Achievements on Advanced Robot Combat for make benefit glorious Team of Ice Cubed Robotics
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NFX
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Fuck Bitches Get Crystals
Please use a smaller picture.
Team Mongoose (358-215)
"The Colour of Awesome"

Braveheart / Crash Blossom / Depth Charge / Broken Ghost / Murder Death Unit / Agent X

RoBattle
Override - 13 pts
MiDAS - 12 pts

it was a gigantic masturbation of polygons :v - That Kode Guy
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NWOWWE
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Team Blood Gulch Motto
If I could be serious for a moment! [/Lance Storm]

Since the tournament director has set a rather vague and loose precedent on changing results for Robot Bastards, perhaps this would good time to raise what could be seen as factual inaccuracies in some results and ought to be seriously considered for changing in order to makes sure that results are as accurate as possible.

O'Malley vs. Conqueror week 1. A thorough analysis of the result does not tally at all with a 9-6 split in the Damage category. Tearing off an entire side panel of Conqueror in addition to a few other solid shots besides in contrast to a (brief) trip to the pulverizor and a couple wall slams in Conqueror's favor. This is highly significant as a wider and more logical margin in that category would have given the decision to O'Malley.

O'Malley vs. Zadkiel week 2. I'd like the rather minuscule drive advantage that Zadkiel possesses somehow translating into dominating control advantage re-evaluated. Somehow a 1 point traction difference means that O'Malley skitters around on ice after each hit while Zadkiel is able to literally hold in place like a rock. Somehow O'Malley is the only one to get bullied around the arena. This is highly significant as it places a noticeable bias on the result in which Zadkiel got most of the offense despite being outclassed in weapon in just about every facet (range and toughness most of all).

No doubt the tournament director will see fit to correct such obvious errors and see to it that proper bot wins. Luckily it shouldn't take very long since we don't need to wait for him to consult with the rest of the staff to reach a consensus.

Now I imagine there could be other results that have similar issues so far and I apologize for not recognizing them, but nobody's perfect right? ;)
Area51Escapee,Jan 30 2011
01:27 AM
Spatula,Jan 29 2011
11:32 PM
I should go 3-1 this week but it'll probably be something like 0-4 or 0-5.

It sucks going 0-5. You lose all 4 of your bot fights for the week and you also lose at life.
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Badnik96
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You're just a voice pal, you don't know a damn thing about racing!
I can't tell if he's being serious or not! :O
Team Ignition
WhipCoil - The Crash & Burn Tournament 5 Champion
Redline - Robot Bastards LW Champion
Sling Shot - Bot-o-Rama 2016 Sportsman Champion
The Debilitator - Cherry Bomb Classic Lightweight Champion
Pyrite - FRR Backlash Lightweight Champion
Doomerang - Robot Fight Night Heavyweight Champion

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NFX
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Fuck Bitches Get Crystals
Badnik96
Sep 30 2014, 01:00 PM
I can't tell if he's being serious or not! :O
WHY ARE NO EXIT'S WEDGES SO SHIT.
Team Mongoose (358-215)
"The Colour of Awesome"

Braveheart / Crash Blossom / Depth Charge / Broken Ghost / Murder Death Unit / Agent X

RoBattle
Override - 13 pts
MiDAS - 12 pts

it was a gigantic masturbation of polygons :v - That Kode Guy
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Siphai
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The Guy
NWOWWE
Sep 30 2014, 12:57 PM
O'Malley vs. Zadkiel week 2. I'd like the rather minuscule drive advantage that Zadkiel possesses somehow translating into dominating control advantage re-evaluated. Somehow a 1 point traction difference means that O'Malley skitters around on ice after each hit while Zadkiel is able to literally hold in place like a rock. Somehow O'Malley is the only one to get bullied around the arena. This is highly significant as it places a noticeable bias on the result in which Zadkiel got most of the offense despite being outclassed in weapon in just about every facet (range and toughness most of all).
Dude look at O'Malley and then look at literally any other spinner. You not only have just two wheels, but they are incredibly close togther. That's not a stable base. Comparing O'Malley to something like Zadkiel, is like comparing what happens when you push a guy who's feet are touching each other vs. pushing a guy who's feet are shoulder-width apart.

Outclassed in weapon is also questionable. The design of O'Malley's spinner is a poor choice. For spinning weapons (or really for anything that wants to build a lot of rotational force) you typically want to have most of your weight on the outer edge of the spinner. O'Malley's weapon does just the opposite, tapering down the further it goes outside. It's like if you swung a hammer by the head instead of the handle.

I don't think range would have much to do with the fight. Zadkiel's body is still tucked away behind its disc, and O'Malley wouldn't really have the control to follow up on with a hit after a collision.

The durability of the weapons does come into play, where you do rip off one of Zadkiel's teeth and typically 'do more damage' in head to head confrontations, but I don't think it was enough to sway the rest of the fight.

I didn't write the other fight, but I will end with this: I don't think any of these problems can really compare to someone confusing the entire nature of a robot. Spatula mistakenly thought that Stabstract was a multibot that had 30 points. If you're writing a fight with that belief, you know that's obviously a huge advantage and basically the entire reason why Stabstract won. When that belief is false, the mistake should be corrected. For example, if I write a fight where Jack Frost loses to FLIP THIS!! because I felt that Jack Frost's flipper would be ineffectual, that obviously deserves a rewrite.
Team Targeted - (36-12) Robot Bastards

Dr. P: 4-8
Square Wave: 11-1
Snijmachine: 10-2
Parabolic Trajectory: 11-1
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NWOWWE
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I appreciate your candor Alex, but at this time I happen to be addressing the tournament director since he seems to be the only one with any true authority on the matter. :cool:
Area51Escapee,Jan 30 2011
01:27 AM
Spatula,Jan 29 2011
11:32 PM
I should go 3-1 this week but it'll probably be something like 0-4 or 0-5.

It sucks going 0-5. You lose all 4 of your bot fights for the week and you also lose at life.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
GF93
Member Avatar
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici.
NWOWWE
Sep 30 2014, 12:57 PM
If I could be serious for a moment! [/Lance Storm]

Since the tournament director has set a rather vague and loose precedent on changing results for Robot Bastards, perhaps this would good time to raise what could be seen as factual inaccuracies in some results and ought to be seriously considered for changing in order to makes sure that results are as accurate as possible.

O'Malley vs. Conqueror week 1. A thorough analysis of the result does not tally at all with a 9-6 split in the Damage category. Tearing off an entire side panel of Conqueror in addition to a few other solid shots besides in contrast to a (brief) trip to the pulverizor and a couple wall slams in Conqueror's favor. This is highly significant as a wider and more logical margin in that category would have given the decision to O'Malley.

O'Malley vs. Zadkiel week 2. I'd like the rather minuscule drive advantage that Zadkiel possesses somehow translating into dominating control advantage re-evaluated. Somehow a 1 point traction difference means that O'Malley skitters around on ice after each hit while Zadkiel is able to literally hold in place like a rock. Somehow O'Malley is the only one to get bullied around the arena. This is highly significant as it places a noticeable bias on the result in which Zadkiel got most of the offense despite being outclassed in weapon in just about every facet (range and toughness most of all).

No doubt the tournament director will see fit to correct such obvious errors and see to it that proper bot wins. Luckily it shouldn't take very long since we don't need to wait for him to consult with the rest of the staff to reach a consensus.
No offence, but why do I get the feeling that these wouldn't have mattered if it wasn't your robot that lost?
Ice Cubed Robotics Posted Image
"I will not die until I achieve something. Even though the ideal is high, I never give in. Therefore, I never die with regrets."

Cherry Bomb Classic: Season 2 (8-0)
Swiftsure- 2-0
Torque Dirty 2 Me- 2-0
Ayame- 1-0
Dead on Arrival- 1-0
Barley Picker- 1-0
Lethal Injection 3- 1-0

Robot Bastards 2 (5-5)
Apathy & Lethargy- 2-1
Trump ex Machina- 0-3
Rainbow in the Dark- 3-1 (6-3)

Ruination: The Upheaval (20-8)
Ayame- 6-1
Marauder- 6-1
Dreadnought Mk3- 3-4
Lethal Injection 3- 5-2

ALL-TIME RECORD
Wins: 347
Losses: 230
KodeBreaker
 
Alex Valentine is the hero we deserve.

Notable Achievements on Advanced Robot Combat for make benefit glorious Team of Ice Cubed Robotics
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
BEES
Member Avatar
I've never lived by anyone's rules but my own.
NWOWWE
Sep 30 2014, 12:57 PM
If I could be serious for a moment! [/Lance Storm]

Since the tournament director has set a rather vague and loose precedent on changing results for Robot Bastards, perhaps this would good time to raise what could be seen as factual inaccuracies in some results and ought to be seriously considered for changing in order to makes sure that results are as accurate as possible.

O'Malley vs. Conqueror week 1. A thorough analysis of the result does not tally at all with a 9-6 split in the Damage category. Tearing off an entire side panel of Conqueror in addition to a few other solid shots besides in contrast to a (brief) trip to the pulverizor and a couple wall slams in Conqueror's favor. This is highly significant as a wider and more logical margin in that category would have given the decision to O'Malley.

O'Malley vs. Zadkiel week 2. I'd like the rather minuscule drive advantage that Zadkiel possesses somehow translating into dominating control advantage re-evaluated. Somehow a 1 point traction difference means that O'Malley skitters around on ice after each hit while Zadkiel is able to literally hold in place like a rock. Somehow O'Malley is the only one to get bullied around the arena. This is highly significant as it places a noticeable bias on the result in which Zadkiel got most of the offense despite being outclassed in weapon in just about every facet (range and toughness most of all).

No doubt the tournament director will see fit to correct such obvious errors and see to it that proper bot wins. Luckily it shouldn't take very long since we don't need to wait for him to consult with the rest of the staff to reach a consensus.

Now I imagine there could be other results that have similar issues so far and I apologize for not recognizing them, but nobody's perfect right? ;)
I don't see much problem with the outcome of either of O'Malley's fights. The way O'Malley is shaped it's going to have control issues. The center of the weapon is just too far away from the wheels for it not to be a problem. That's like putting a 13 power weapon at the end of Cherax's wedge. I tried to be consistent with the outcomes. Jack Frost beat Parabolic Trajectory but it was a tough fight. Conqueror is 1 point faster than PT, and O'Malley has control issues that Jack Frost doesn't. So it shifted the needle to the other side of the equation, in my mind. I can't speak for the Zadkiel fight as I didn't write that one, but I'll stand by the outcome.

I think that a rewrite is justified when the error with the fight is really huge, and changes the outcome of the fight. This is one of those rare cases where it's just the right thing to do. Stabstract's not a cluster; I wrote it as if it were. Suppose it had fought Jack Frost this week and won for the same oversight? Think about having that loss on your record. It wouldn't be fair to you to count a loss to a bot that you literally weren't supposed to be fighting. There is a difference between a big issue like that--having the wrong robot in the fight, and a little issue like a nitpick over the scorecard.
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NWOWWE
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Team Blood Gulch Motto
Siphai
Sep 30 2014, 01:20 PM
I didn't write the other fight, but I will end with this: I don't think any of these problems can really compare to someone confusing the entire nature of a robot. Spatula mistakenly thought that Stabstract was a multibot that had 30 points. If you're writing a fight with that belief, you know that's obviously a huge advantage and basically the entire reason why Stabstract won. When that belief is false, the mistake should be corrected. For example, if I write a fight where Jack Frost loses to FLIP THIS!! because I felt that Jack Frost's flipper would be ineffectual, that obviously deserves a rewrite.
This is an interesting point though. I seem to recall Clown Breath losing several fights in the first season I used him due in large part to the writer completely misinterpreting how his weapon set-up worked. Now here it would seem that I would be well justified in asking for those to be re-written.

However... When I did bring up having those fights looked at again (among other people bringing up other fights), it was generally agreed that having results re-written was a bad idea and made a lot of people rather angry, and the whole business ended up dropped. In fact we've pretty much stayed away from re-writing results ever since. Any result that has undergone revision was done so before they were posted (and thus official).
Area51Escapee,Jan 30 2011
01:27 AM
Spatula,Jan 29 2011
11:32 PM
I should go 3-1 this week but it'll probably be something like 0-4 or 0-5.

It sucks going 0-5. You lose all 4 of your bot fights for the week and you also lose at life.
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NWOWWE
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Team Blood Gulch Motto
Spatula
Sep 30 2014, 01:29 PM
I think that a rewrite is justified when the error with the fight is really huge, and changes the outcome of the fight. This is one of those rare cases where it's just the right thing to do. Stabstract's not a cluster; I wrote it as if it were. Suppose it had fought Jack Frost this week and won for the same oversight? Think about having that loss on your record. It wouldn't be fair to you to count a loss to a bot that you literally weren't supposed to be fighting. There is a difference between a big issue like that--having the wrong robot in the fight, and a little issue like a nitpick over the scorecard.
Well that's the thing though, there have been fights in the past where bots have been misinterpreted and either won or lost directly because of that and any talk of re-writing them after the fact has always been met with a huge degree of controversy.

I've been on the wrong side of the situation, and yeah it sucks, but what are you going to do? Mistakes happen. It's also not really fair to take a win away from the other person just to appease someone else. No matter how you slice it, at the end of the day someone is getting the shaft.

I can also say that I've personally edited results I've done after they were posted to correct details/discrepancies about the fight, but with the clear caveat that the decision itself would not be changed.
Area51Escapee,Jan 30 2011
01:27 AM
Spatula,Jan 29 2011
11:32 PM
I should go 3-1 this week but it'll probably be something like 0-4 or 0-5.

It sucks going 0-5. You lose all 4 of your bot fights for the week and you also lose at life.
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Siphai
Member Avatar
The Guy
NWOWWE
Sep 30 2014, 01:33 PM
Siphai
Sep 30 2014, 01:20 PM
I didn't write the other fight, but I will end with this: I don't think any of these problems can really compare to someone confusing the entire nature of a robot. Spatula mistakenly thought that Stabstract was a multibot that had 30 points. If you're writing a fight with that belief, you know that's obviously a huge advantage and basically the entire reason why Stabstract won. When that belief is false, the mistake should be corrected. For example, if I write a fight where Jack Frost loses to FLIP THIS!! because I felt that Jack Frost's flipper would be ineffectual, that obviously deserves a rewrite.
This is an interesting point though. I seem to recall Clown Breath losing several fights in the first season I used him due in large part to the writer completely misinterpreting how his weapon set-up worked. Now here it would seem that I would be well justified in asking for those to be re-written.

However... When I did bring up having those fights looked at again (among other people bringing up other fights), it was generally agreed that having results re-written was a bad idea and made a lot of people rather angry, and the whole business ended up dropped. In fact we've pretty much stayed away from re-writing results ever since. Any result that has undergone revision was done so before they were posted (and thus official).
I was mad about the rewrites because it was done entirely behind my back and without my (and the other writers for those fights) consent. Don't act like the Clown Breath match was the only one brought up. This is nothing like that, its the result's own writer + the tournament director correcting a huge mistake.
Team Targeted - (36-12) Robot Bastards

Dr. P: 4-8
Square Wave: 11-1
Snijmachine: 10-2
Parabolic Trajectory: 11-1
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Siphai
Member Avatar
The Guy
NWOWWE
Sep 30 2014, 01:43 PM
Spatula
Sep 30 2014, 01:29 PM
I think that a rewrite is justified when the error with the fight is really huge, and changes the outcome of the fight. This is one of those rare cases where it's just the right thing to do. Stabstract's not a cluster; I wrote it as if it were. Suppose it had fought Jack Frost this week and won for the same oversight? Think about having that loss on your record. It wouldn't be fair to you to count a loss to a bot that you literally weren't supposed to be fighting. There is a difference between a big issue like that--having the wrong robot in the fight, and a little issue like a nitpick over the scorecard.
Well that's the thing though, there have been fights in the past where bots have been misinterpreted and either won or lost directly because of that and any talk of re-writing them after the fact has always been met with a huge degree of controversy.

I've been on the wrong side of the situation, and yeah it sucks, but what are you going to do? Mistakes happen. It's also not really fair to take a win away from the other person just to appease someone else. No matter how you slice it, at the end of the day someone is getting the shaft.

I can also say that I've personally edited results I've done after they were posted to correct details/discrepancies about the fight, but with the clear caveat that the decision itself would not be changed.
I just don't see the parallels that you're attempting to draw. Don't fix the result because the last time it was attempted it was met with a huge degree of controversy. But the controversy from last time was almost entirely internal - Kody and I did not like the fact that you guys went behind our back to "Fix Our Results For Us". Without being consulted at all. And weeks after the fact!
Team Targeted - (36-12) Robot Bastards

Dr. P: 4-8
Square Wave: 11-1
Snijmachine: 10-2
Parabolic Trajectory: 11-1
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