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| LoRE 2: The Other Electric Boogaloo - Discussion | |
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| Topic Started: Apr 23 2014, 04:43 PM (9,879 Views) | |
| NWOWWE | Mar 27 2015, 12:15 PM Post #361 |
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Team Blood Gulch Motto
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I didn't even know we HAD a rule for spinning weapon clutches lmao |
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| BEES | Mar 27 2015, 12:30 PM Post #362 |
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I've never lived by anyone's rules but my own.
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I'll see if I can find it... it's an ancient rule. Was meant to allow spinners to turn on and off without a tax, since they already spend so many points. Thanks for asking questions guys. I'd rather make sure everyone's cool with the weapon and agrees it works now, than halfway into the tourney or something. |
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| Siphai | Mar 27 2015, 01:05 PM Post #363 |
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The Guy
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There's nothing even in the rules regarding clutches as far as I can tell. The closest thing would be weapons sharing the same motor, but on separate axles. |
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Team Targeted - (36-12) Robot Bastards Dr. P: 4-8 Square Wave: 11-1 Snijmachine: 10-2 Parabolic Trajectory: 11-1 | |
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| NWOWWE | Mar 27 2015, 01:14 PM Post #364 |
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Team Blood Gulch Motto
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I thought something might have been added with the new rules since there was confusion surrounding ABR's use of the clutch system with it's wedge/lifter thing back in the first Ruination. Even then I don't know how that would apply here since a puncher bar and a spinning weapon seem to be pretty distinctly different weapons. |
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| NFX | Mar 27 2015, 01:36 PM Post #365 |
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Fuck Bitches Get Crystals
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Didn't the original No Patrol of Badnik's have a similar system? Spin one weapon, then use a clutch to transfer the energy into firing another weapon? Only instead of a flipper it'd be a bar here. |
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Team Mongoose (358-215) "The Colour of Awesome" Braveheart / Crash Blossom / Depth Charge / Broken Ghost / Murder Death Unit / Agent X RoBattle Override - 13 pts MiDAS - 12 pts it was a gigantic masturbation of polygons :v - That Kode Guy | |
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| NWOWWE | Mar 27 2015, 01:42 PM Post #366 |
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Team Blood Gulch Motto
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No, the first time it was just wedge (Ruination: The Omen). When it had the flipper in FRR: No Mercy it had the multi-weapon deduction. |
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| BEES | Mar 27 2015, 01:52 PM Post #367 |
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I've never lived by anyone's rules but my own.
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It didn't actually need to do that, since it was all one weapon motor. Alex pointed out the deduction for two weapons on one motor on separate axles is 1 point each. Which... if we were doing it that way and that's still the main rule... I've changed the stats of Gamma Ray to conform to that rule. Both bars are 13 W, the clutch connecting them is 1. That was a very expensive point to spend, considering what I had on everything else. But oh well it's a robot with two fucking weapons I suppose I have no right to complain.
Edited by BEES, Mar 27 2015, 01:53 PM.
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| NWOWWE | Mar 27 2015, 01:56 PM Post #368 |
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Team Blood Gulch Motto
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Well now hold up a moment here because now I'm really lost. How do two highly different weapon set-ups get powered by the same motor at the expense of only one point? I mean what prevents EVERY multi-weapon bot from taking advantage of this? |
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| Badnik96 | Mar 27 2015, 02:21 PM Post #369 |
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You're just a voice pal, you don't know a damn thing about racing!
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Sorry to break up your argument here but I still need rhino models from the following: Nick S Alex MW Alex V (plus whatever CADs he did for other people) Martijn Edited by Badnik96, Mar 27 2015, 02:23 PM.
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Team Ignition WhipCoil - The Crash & Burn Tournament 5 Champion Redline - Robot Bastards LW Champion Sling Shot - Bot-o-Rama 2016 Sportsman Champion The Debilitator - Cherry Bomb Classic Lightweight Champion Pyrite - FRR Backlash Lightweight Champion Doomerang - Robot Fight Night Heavyweight Champion [/color]
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| BEES | Mar 27 2015, 02:21 PM Post #370 |
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I've never lived by anyone's rules but my own.
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Well... I don't think it's broken because spinners don't really have any points to spare. Look at Gamma Ray's stats: Speed - 5 Traction - 3 Torque - 1 Weapon - 13 Armor - 7 So... if I were to pull a point somewhere because I needed a clutch, where would I pull it from? If I only have 12 W, that's probably too low for a lot of matchups. If I pull it from the armor, then that leaves me with a 5-point difference between the weapon power and weapon armor and it means I'll have a limited number of shots before the weapon power decays. Psychologically, 4 speed, 2 traction just look bad. So... strategically there's not much room to work with here. While lifters and flippers could spend a point to have a ramming bar, it's debatable how much utility you'd get from that as opposed to say, just having a point for a wedge that presses? Which you can totally do on any bot. But there are situations that could be good. And it's possible we'll see more of that. Anyway... this IS in the rules, and this isn't broken. |
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| Badnik96 | Mar 27 2015, 02:23 PM Post #371 |
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You're just a voice pal, you don't know a damn thing about racing!
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Also, IIRC when the bar fires, the spinner stops. That makes it somewhat balanced, IMO. |
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Team Ignition WhipCoil - The Crash & Burn Tournament 5 Champion Redline - Robot Bastards LW Champion Sling Shot - Bot-o-Rama 2016 Sportsman Champion The Debilitator - Cherry Bomb Classic Lightweight Champion Pyrite - FRR Backlash Lightweight Champion Doomerang - Robot Fight Night Heavyweight Champion [/color]
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| NFX | Mar 27 2015, 02:26 PM Post #372 |
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Fuck Bitches Get Crystals
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Plus he can't fire the bar unless the spinner's moving. |
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Team Mongoose (358-215) "The Colour of Awesome" Braveheart / Crash Blossom / Depth Charge / Broken Ghost / Murder Death Unit / Agent X RoBattle Override - 13 pts MiDAS - 12 pts it was a gigantic masturbation of polygons :v - That Kode Guy | |
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| NWOWWE | Mar 27 2015, 02:29 PM Post #373 |
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Team Blood Gulch Motto
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Well I beg to differ on this part since I can't see anything at all like this talked about in the rules as laid out on the Wiki page. Hence why I'm rather confused how this is supposed to work. If someone could quote the portion of the rules that talks about this I'd greatly appreciate it. |
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| Badnik96 | Mar 27 2015, 02:31 PM Post #374 |
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You're just a voice pal, you don't know a damn thing about racing!
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Essentially, the spinner transfers kinetic energy to the bar via the clutch system. Hence why the bar stops, because all the energy is being transferred to the bar. This essentially gives them the same power as well. |
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Team Ignition WhipCoil - The Crash & Burn Tournament 5 Champion Redline - Robot Bastards LW Champion Sling Shot - Bot-o-Rama 2016 Sportsman Champion The Debilitator - Cherry Bomb Classic Lightweight Champion Pyrite - FRR Backlash Lightweight Champion Doomerang - Robot Fight Night Heavyweight Champion [/color]
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| BEES | Mar 27 2015, 02:36 PM Post #375 |
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I've never lived by anyone's rules but my own.
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It wouldn't stop but it would slow. But there is another issue. I have to run the weapon below its full power to fire the bar anyway. I took a point off armor to pay for the clutch. So there's a 5 point difference between weapon power and weapon armor now. If I fired the bar while the weapon was at full power, that would count as a 'hit', of which I only get 5 at full power before both weapons become useless. So... I have to run the weapon at partial speed when i intend to fire the bar. Though I'm considering switching the point out for a traction point instead to avoid all that nonsense. edit - yeah pulled it from traction instead. Disregard everything I said above this. It's within the self-destruct limit again. Spinners don't need to aim right? Edited by BEES, Mar 27 2015, 02:41 PM.
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| Siphai | Mar 27 2015, 02:58 PM Post #376 |
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The Guy
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I'm really glad this was brought up like right at the last second, instead of, throwing this concept out there earlier to be discussed. That's really cool. |
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Team Targeted - (36-12) Robot Bastards Dr. P: 4-8 Square Wave: 11-1 Snijmachine: 10-2 Parabolic Trajectory: 11-1 | |
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| NWOWWE | Mar 27 2015, 02:59 PM Post #377 |
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Team Blood Gulch Motto
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I blame badnik
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| Badnik96 | Mar 27 2015, 03:48 PM Post #378 |
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You're just a voice pal, you don't know a damn thing about racing!
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now that nick's hw is up we can lock the signups topic. no more last second stat editing. |
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Team Ignition WhipCoil - The Crash & Burn Tournament 5 Champion Redline - Robot Bastards LW Champion Sling Shot - Bot-o-Rama 2016 Sportsman Champion The Debilitator - Cherry Bomb Classic Lightweight Champion Pyrite - FRR Backlash Lightweight Champion Doomerang - Robot Fight Night Heavyweight Champion [/color]
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| BEES | Mar 27 2015, 03:50 PM Post #379 |
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I've never lived by anyone's rules but my own.
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The concept has been out there ever since I posted it in my render thread a year ago. I did say I was gonna use Gamma Ray this tourney. Sorry I didn't run the stats by you a few weeks ago... This is a good thing to hammer out anyway because any type of Warrior SKF sort of spinner/flipper will be affected by the interpretation of this. So if the rules are ambiguous about it, let's make them unambiguous now. |
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| BEES | Mar 27 2015, 03:57 PM Post #380 |
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I've never lived by anyone's rules but my own.
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Yeah close it. Whatever the decision is with my bot, I'll live with it. There is something else going on though. Alex is going through the entries to figure out who qualifies for the WAB. A lot of bots are breaking the 33% rule. I think the plan is to post a list of these bots. It might be good to reopen the signups for these people to fix their stats briefly, after that. |
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