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FRR: No Mercy - Pre-season Predictions; It's about that time of season right?
Topic Started: Feb 6 2014, 11:05 AM (1,311 Views)
GF93
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Vi veri veniversum vivus vici.
Badnik96
Feb 10 2014, 10:59 PM
God this is like the third season in a row where we've found issues with someone's bot after signups close. I thought the staff was supposed to go through everything or something.
On that note, I wonder if I'll get away with using Rocket-Propelled Grenades on my next machine? :v:
Ice Cubed Robotics Posted Image
"I will not die until I achieve something. Even though the ideal is high, I never give in. Therefore, I never die with regrets."

Cherry Bomb Classic: Season 2 (8-0)
Swiftsure- 2-0
Torque Dirty 2 Me- 2-0
Ayame- 1-0
Dead on Arrival- 1-0
Barley Picker- 1-0
Lethal Injection 3- 1-0

Robot Bastards 2 (5-5)
Apathy & Lethargy- 2-1
Trump ex Machina- 0-3
Rainbow in the Dark- 3-1 (6-3)

Ruination: The Upheaval (20-8)
Ayame- 6-1
Marauder- 6-1
Dreadnought Mk3- 3-4
Lethal Injection 3- 5-2

ALL-TIME RECORD
Wins: 347
Losses: 230
KodeBreaker
 
Alex Valentine is the hero we deserve.

Notable Achievements on Advanced Robot Combat for make benefit glorious Team of Ice Cubed Robotics
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That Kode Guy
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Ruiner of All
Badnik96
Feb 10 2014, 10:59 PM
God this is like the third season in a row where we've found issues with someone's bot after signups close. I thought the staff was supposed to go through everything or something.
Nothing is going to be perfect. We aim for it, but this shit always happens one way or another.
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Team Covenant stuff
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BEES
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I've never lived by anyone's rules but my own.
GF93
Feb 10 2014, 11:07 PM
Badnik96
Feb 10 2014, 10:59 PM
God this is like the third season in a row where we've found issues with someone's bot after signups close. I thought the staff was supposed to go through everything or something.
On that note, I wonder if I'll get away with using Rocket-Propelled Grenades on my next machine? :v:
Bad time to mention I found a loophole that allows walking clusterbot ring spinners? :v:
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GF93
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Vi veri veniversum vivus vici.
Spatula
Feb 10 2014, 11:48 PM
GF93
Feb 10 2014, 11:07 PM
Badnik96
Feb 10 2014, 10:59 PM
God this is like the third season in a row where we've found issues with someone's bot after signups close. I thought the staff was supposed to go through everything or something.
On that note, I wonder if I'll get away with using Rocket-Propelled Grenades on my next machine? :v:
Bad time to mention I found a loophole that allows walking clusterbot ring spinners? :v:
Well, could be worse. Give them some Axe Breakers, and you'll have a total Game Changer on your hands. :P
Ice Cubed Robotics Posted Image
"I will not die until I achieve something. Even though the ideal is high, I never give in. Therefore, I never die with regrets."

Cherry Bomb Classic: Season 2 (8-0)
Swiftsure- 2-0
Torque Dirty 2 Me- 2-0
Ayame- 1-0
Dead on Arrival- 1-0
Barley Picker- 1-0
Lethal Injection 3- 1-0

Robot Bastards 2 (5-5)
Apathy & Lethargy- 2-1
Trump ex Machina- 0-3
Rainbow in the Dark- 3-1 (6-3)

Ruination: The Upheaval (20-8)
Ayame- 6-1
Marauder- 6-1
Dreadnought Mk3- 3-4
Lethal Injection 3- 5-2

ALL-TIME RECORD
Wins: 347
Losses: 230
KodeBreaker
 
Alex Valentine is the hero we deserve.

Notable Achievements on Advanced Robot Combat for make benefit glorious Team of Ice Cubed Robotics
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NWOWWE
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Team Blood Gulch Motto
succotash_54
Feb 10 2014, 10:53 PM
Quote:
 
At any rate the main issue comes from the fact that Yellow Cloud is an old has hell design.
Old, but not obsolete. And I actually evolved the design a little bit, but no one's noticed. There are a lot of familiar names this season too, so I don't think "old" is at issue.
If the "evolution" isn't more than that one pixel lowering of the wedge you mentioned before I doubt it actually happened. And yes there are plenty of old favorites around, but they've all undergone rather noticeable changes/upgrades.

Compare ToC from the last time Babaganoush competed:
http://wayback.archive.org/web/20060107224228/http://usera.imagecave.com/NWOWWE/toc2.jpg

To how he appears in No Mercy:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y90/NWOWWE/ght4_zps22543638.png

Simply put I think there's a reason no one noticed any updates to Yellow Cloud.


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Well let's be fair, even when you did the scripts you never really included all that "realistic, boring stuff" in those, even though you had full artistic license to do so. And for good reason. No one wants to read that kind of fight or read how bot got caught on cracks in the floor because that happens in "real life".


I've written a few misses and getting caught in scripts before, I think. I don't do it in general because it doesn't lend itself well to the scripting process.
Yeah. That's pretty much on point with what I was saying. I mean sure it's okay if it happens maybe once or twice as an incidental thing, but no one wants to read about bots constantly getting tripped up by mundane things like cracks in the floor.

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but I very rarely come across people RPing about the more mundane things like getting caught in floor cracks or after a spinner hits a bot both just sit around doing pretty much nothing for several seconds.
No, but I did account for those things in my results. Spinners tended to get manhandled because of low torque inhibited their abilities to get back up to speed in time. I even wrote a results where the key in the fight actually turned out to be design issues that NEITHER Roleplayer accounted for.
What's this about design issues that "neither RPer accounted for"? You're starting to blur the line between writing and basically RPing in place of the competitors. Sometimes there could be a perfectly good reason something isn't referenced by either RP. If a bot has a really glaring flaw, then pretty much everyone knows it already and people tend to bring it up in their RP's if it's applicable. If it's something that only you've noticed then I would suggest running it by another staff member just to confirm it. Hell I've run such questions past Kody (and vice-versa) from time to time if something occurs to me. I don't presume to say "Oh well I see this as a flaw so now this bot is screwed", because even as a writer I may not be correct on everything.

And low torque slowing up spinners recovery? I don't recall the Torque stat EVER have anything to do with weapon in any shape or form so I have no clue where you came up with that.

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Mostly the season where you lost your bots in the first round of the playoffs and then completely took over ALL of the semi-final results the final week (where the rest of the staff members surprisingly ended up losing) came to mind.
I took over the results for efficiency's sake. Since I had no dogs in the fights anymore, I was a completely neutral party. Plus, at that time, I was doing overnight shifts at the station where I had the better part of six hours to do as pleased, pretty much. I wanted to keep things running tight and smooth. The staff losing... that was not intentional. I called those fights equitably as I always strove too. That's the flat-out truth.
Well that's fair enough.

I hope you'd have a similar logical justification for other times such as the one week I happened to have Paul go 4-0 against you during the regular season and then I coincidentally was "given the next few weeks off" with no results to write. Or when you were the head honcho of a season you ended up doing a large bulk of the results yourself. The willingness to shoulder a large chuck of the burden is admirable but that's not quite how a writing staff should operate.

Area51Escapee,Jan 30 2011
01:27 AM
Spatula,Jan 29 2011
11:32 PM
I should go 3-1 this week but it'll probably be something like 0-4 or 0-5.

It sucks going 0-5. You lose all 4 of your bot fights for the week and you also lose at life.
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succotash_54
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Quote:
 
Simply put I think there's a reason no one noticed any updates to Yellow Cloud.

The change is subtle, but I believe significant towards how I will be able to operate the bot. And no, I'm not talking one pixel (which was actually several, just that the last bit (IRL building about 6' to a foot) of the chassis was made one pixel lower to bring it level with the wheels.

Quote:
 
What's this about design issues that "neither RPer accounted for"? You're starting to blur the line between writing and basically RPing in place of the competitors. Sometimes there could be a perfectly good reason something isn't referenced by either RP. If a bot has a really glaring flaw, then pretty much everyone knows it already and people tend to bring it up in their RP's if it's applicable. If it's something that only you've noticed then I would suggest running it by another staff member just to confirm it.
Hey, I DISTINCTLY mentioned it in the result too. It's not RPing for the player if one guy's attack strategy fails because of the design of his opponent, but said opponent doesn't explicitly mention it as a counter. And I think maybe only one or two seasons of ARC is all I've ever been the guy you sent results to. I submitted all my results to either Chris, or Alex, or you, or whoever was the head guy that season. And I don't think I've ever once had my result questioned or rejected by a staff member. That's the head writer's job, too. But I'm no stranger to running stuff by others either. When Sparkey got his first win? I ran that by someone else.

Quote:
 
And low torque slowing up spinners recovery? I don't recall the Torque stat EVER have anything to do with weapon in any shape or form so I have no clue where you came up with that.

Torque determined how far you got flung when hit. Both bots. You can't really get the weapon going up to speed again until you've stopped skittering across the floor. I mean you can try, but it's generally not a sound idea.

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I hope you'd have a similar logical justification for other times such as the one week I happened to have Paul go 4-0 against you during the regular season and then I coincidentally was "given the next few weeks off" with no results to write.

I really don't remember that in such graphic detail. I DO remember we tried doing a rotation of giving writers a break each week to let them recharge. I've been known to hold a 2-car grudge, but I don't think (other than the double-knockouts) I took it out on ARC. The only thing I can think of is that I got on such a roll with writing that there wasn't much work to do by the time I got done.

Quote:
 
Or when you were the head honcho of a season you ended up doing a large bulk of the results yourself. The willingness to shoulder a large chuck of the burden is admirable but that's not quite how a writing staff should operate.

You mean FRR4? Oh yeah, I got your explanation really easily there... the WHOLE WRITING STAFF DESERTED! Remember it was the same thing when I ended up stepping up as a writer for FRR3 because Viper disappeared? Same thing. We once waited 3 weeks because the people I gave assignments to just disappeared. But the season was too far underway to give up. So yeah, I took over because no one else was doing their fricken job. That's not exactly how a writing staff should operate either. And I'm sorry if the fact that that carried over to how I handled ARC left you with a bitter taste in your mouth regarding me as a results writer. I wrote a shit-ton of results because I was accustomed to being flaked on, which I tried to be understanding about. I realized that people had homework, or lab assignments, or other familial responsibilities to attend to, and as a single guy living 100 miles from his family, I had little better to do in the studio than write results. I was dedicated to keeping things timely, running smoothly and as seamlessly as possible, and keeping the competition going. And this is the thanks I get? Accusations of rigging the competition? I'm not sure whether to withdraw my team out of the competition altogether or demand a spot on the writing staff to show you up for that. I don't care who you are, that's pretty fucking low.
There are few crimes in our modern society that merit public beating. Interrupting someone's enjoyment of Messiah to request "Jingle Bells" by the Singing Dogs is irrefutably one such offense.
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Badnik96
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You're just a voice pal, you don't know a damn thing about racing!
lmao @ alex
Team Ignition
WhipCoil - The Crash & Burn Tournament 5 Champion
Redline - Robot Bastards LW Champion
Sling Shot - Bot-o-Rama 2016 Sportsman Champion
The Debilitator - Cherry Bomb Classic Lightweight Champion
Pyrite - FRR Backlash Lightweight Champion
Doomerang - Robot Fight Night Heavyweight Champion

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NWOWWE
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Quote:
 
I was dedicated to keeping things timely, running smoothly and as seamlessly as possible, and keeping the competition going. And this is the thanks I get? Accusations of rigging the competition? I'm not sure whether to withdraw my team out of the competition altogether or demand a spot on the writing staff to show you up for that. I don't care who you are, that's pretty fucking low.
That's not even close to the point I was making. I wasn't accusing you of rigging things by doing the bulk of the results. Quite frankly I've spent a good deal of time wondering if (and specifically related to the one incident I mentioned) if I had somehow lost your confidence in relation to my writing. If it was only coincidence then that's fine and whatnot, but the timing always seemed strange to me.

You could have let someone else know you were doing the majority of results out of a fear of something like FRR 3/4 happening again, (maybe you even did, but I certainly was never made aware) rather than just shaking it off as "hey it's cool guys I've got it". Team effort and all that. I'm sure everyone involved would have understood.

Quote:
 
Hey, I DISTINCTLY mentioned it in the result too. It's not RPing for the player if one guy's attack strategy fails because of the design of his opponent, but said opponent doesn't explicitly mention it as a counter. And I think maybe only one or two seasons of ARC is all I've ever been the guy you sent results to. I submitted all my results to either Chris, or Alex, or you, or whoever was the head guy that season. And I don't think I've ever once had my result questioned or rejected by a staff member. That's the head writer's job, too. But I'm no stranger to running stuff by others either. When Sparkey got his first win? I ran that by someone else.
Okay... but I think it's more efficient to run a question or thought by another staff member BEFORE the result is written rather than relying on them closely inspecting 30-odd results per week. It saves the result from having to be modified if something is deemed off.

Area51Escapee,Jan 30 2011
01:27 AM
Spatula,Jan 29 2011
11:32 PM
I should go 3-1 this week but it'll probably be something like 0-4 or 0-5.

It sucks going 0-5. You lose all 4 of your bot fights for the week and you also lose at life.
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GF93
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Vi veri veniversum vivus vici.
Badnik96
Feb 11 2014, 04:53 PM
lmao @ alex
Greatly appreciated- except for the fact that some viper's deleted my seating. :v:
Ice Cubed Robotics Posted Image
"I will not die until I achieve something. Even though the ideal is high, I never give in. Therefore, I never die with regrets."

Cherry Bomb Classic: Season 2 (8-0)
Swiftsure- 2-0
Torque Dirty 2 Me- 2-0
Ayame- 1-0
Dead on Arrival- 1-0
Barley Picker- 1-0
Lethal Injection 3- 1-0

Robot Bastards 2 (5-5)
Apathy & Lethargy- 2-1
Trump ex Machina- 0-3
Rainbow in the Dark- 3-1 (6-3)

Ruination: The Upheaval (20-8)
Ayame- 6-1
Marauder- 6-1
Dreadnought Mk3- 3-4
Lethal Injection 3- 5-2

ALL-TIME RECORD
Wins: 347
Losses: 230
KodeBreaker
 
Alex Valentine is the hero we deserve.

Notable Achievements on Advanced Robot Combat for make benefit glorious Team of Ice Cubed Robotics
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Badnik96
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You're just a voice pal, you don't know a damn thing about racing!
Can't be, Viper hasn't been around since like Reckoning :dawg:
Edited by Badnik96, Feb 11 2014, 05:18 PM.
Team Ignition
WhipCoil - The Crash & Burn Tournament 5 Champion
Redline - Robot Bastards LW Champion
Sling Shot - Bot-o-Rama 2016 Sportsman Champion
The Debilitator - Cherry Bomb Classic Lightweight Champion
Pyrite - FRR Backlash Lightweight Champion
Doomerang - Robot Fight Night Heavyweight Champion

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succotash_54
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NWOWWE
Feb 11 2014, 04:56 PM


Quote:
 
That's not even close to the point I was making. I wasn't accusing you of rigging things by doing the bulk of the results. Quite frankly I've spent a good deal of time wondering if (and specifically related to the one incident I mentioned) if I had somehow lost your confidence in relation to my writing. If it was only coincidence then that's fine and whatnot, but the timing always seemed strange to me.
I might have, but I don't think I did, just because that's a little extreme. I just don't do shit like that.

Quote:
 
You could have let someone else know you were doing the majority of results out of a fear of something like FRR 3/4 happening again, (maybe you even did, but I certainly was never made aware) rather than just shaking it off as "hey it's cool guys I've got it". Team effort and all that. I'm sure everyone involved would have understood.
Maybe, but by the same token, I remember when I first started handing out assignments, dividing the workload evenly, other people wouldn't have theirs done till Wednesday or even Friday, and that just wasn't right, so I started doing more and giving less. Eventually it just became "I'll do as much as I can while I'm at work and give what's left to you guys.' I remember some weekends were just so frazzling for me that I really had to rely on you guys, but as a whole, the way I'd been doing things worked, it kept the schedule's on time, and people were generally happy about it. By the same token as me voicing concern about getting flaked on, you guys could have said something about "Hey, how about throwing us some more?" I don't think I heard that one much, if at all.
There are few crimes in our modern society that merit public beating. Interrupting someone's enjoyment of Messiah to request "Jingle Bells" by the Singing Dogs is irrefutably one such offense.
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NWOWWE
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I think we can well agree that there's been poor staff communication from time to time. None of us are perfect and sometimes it leads to misunderstandings. For my part I think my thought process (at the time) came from Chris saying that you had mentioned to him at one point during one of the seasons that you thought I didn't care much for your team and I found it a bit odd that you wouldn't have voiced that concern to me directly, especially since you had my phone number in addition to Chris's. I wondered if the perception of me at large was of some evil ogre, ready to club someone and eat their livers if they tried to confront me about something. :D

In any case I've raised my questions about past events that were somewhere in the back of my head for some time and I've now seen them explained/rationalized in a satisfactory fashion. If you say that's the way it was I have no real reason not to believe you and I'm content to leave it at that. I have no interest in building up hard feelings over results and tournaments from years ago.
Area51Escapee,Jan 30 2011
01:27 AM
Spatula,Jan 29 2011
11:32 PM
I should go 3-1 this week but it'll probably be something like 0-4 or 0-5.

It sucks going 0-5. You lose all 4 of your bot fights for the week and you also lose at life.
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succotash_54
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That's fine. FWIW, I don't remember everything crystal clear. I do remember a couple of non-staffers bitching about how championships almost always went to the writers, so if I did make as many staffers lose in the semis as possible on purpose, that's more likely to have been the reason (keeping peace with those who suspected collusion) than personal vendettas. If I did suspect that you had personal distaste for my team, that would account for my not letting write results for my bots. (Tangentially, I was initially leery of letting Kody write any fights for YC this season) And if, as in those days, I was writing results for all fights that weren't mine, and I thought you were letting personal dislike for my bots cloud your judgment, then yeah, you probably wouldn't have gotten any fights then.

Whatever, it's in the past. There've been too many seasons for me to recall the chapter and verse for every decision of mine, or even when I was in charge of which seasons. And it's been too long ago for me to remember, and I've spent too many hours in rubber boots working in fish-product producing and packing plants for me to muster up enough give-a-shit at this point if we've moved past it.
There are few crimes in our modern society that merit public beating. Interrupting someone's enjoyment of Messiah to request "Jingle Bells" by the Singing Dogs is irrefutably one such offense.
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That Kode Guy
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Ruiner of All
Any talk about personal vendettas is a crock of shit. Or at least it should be. I've lost to Final Boss more times than I can count. Am I going to make Josh lose because of that? Of course not. I would rather think that the staff, having survived for this long, would be professional enough to avoid petty squabbles and blame games.

Philip, I know you don't think highly of me at the moment because of my views on your team this season, but I'd appreciate it if you didn't chalk it up to some vengeance ploy. I just don't feel that the team you have entered is up to par with many of the other entries. My views do not necessarily reflect how matches will go, though. I'm not fucking Nostradamus, you're completely free to disagree, and I wouldn't be surprised if many others disagreed.

However, I take mighty offense to what seems to be a demand that I shouldn't write any fights for Yellow Cloud. I have no bones to pick with YC, I simply explained my points about it and I feel that they are valid, moreso since NFX agreed with me. But I always have the other staff help verify my results as well, so I do not send in a very sketchy result. I don't have people lose because "oh lol its so funni", but apparently you feel otherwise.
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Team Covenant stuff
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succotash_54
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KodeBreaker
Feb 11 2014, 09:02 PM



Quote:
 
Philip, I know you don't think highly of me at the moment because of my views on your team this season, but I'd appreciate it if you didn't chalk it up to some vengeance ploy. I just don't feel that the team you have entered is up to par with many of the other entries. My views do not necessarily reflect how matches will go, though. I'm not fucking Nostradamus, you're completely free to disagree, and I wouldn't be surprised if many others disagreed.

Whoa whoa, back up. I respect you Kody. Your critiques for DH and Baba are fair, but in past competitions, I've been able to find a way to counter those issues with fair success. This is also a new stat setup for me, since I haven't dealt with an ARC like stat allocation that had both traction and torque. It's a bit of a challenge to find the right combo for a bot.

The only thing I took issue with was your dismissal of YC. I took issue with it because 1) it read as flippant and 2) it was steeped in the hierarchy that a] people were complaining about as much as they were trying to use to their advantage the last time I competed and b] is really more of a generality than a hard-and-fast rank-and-file system like a game of War, Poker, or Stratego. I took issue with that.

Quote:
 
However, I take mighty offense to what seems to be a demand that I shouldn't write any fights for Yellow Cloud. I have no bones to pick with YC, I simply explained my points about it and I feel that they are valid, moreso since NFX agreed with me. But I always have the other staff help verify my results as well, so I do not send in a very sketchy result. I don't have people lose because "oh lol its so funni", but apparently you feel otherwise.
That's all I needed to know. I trust you.
There are few crimes in our modern society that merit public beating. Interrupting someone's enjoyment of Messiah to request "Jingle Bells" by the Singing Dogs is irrefutably one such offense.
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