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| FRR: No Mercy - Pre-season Predictions; It's about that time of season right? | |
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| Topic Started: Feb 6 2014, 11:05 AM (1,313 Views) | |
| GF93 | Feb 9 2014, 06:45 PM Post #61 |
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Vi veri veniversum vivus vici.
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That, I can probably agree with. People have said he's a good machine, and even better considering he's a Middleweight- I've not been much cop there as of late, but hopefully that should change once Jackal's in there. |
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Ice Cubed Robotics "I will not die until I achieve something. Even though the ideal is high, I never give in. Therefore, I never die with regrets." Cherry Bomb Classic: Season 2 (8-0) Swiftsure- 2-0 Torque Dirty 2 Me- 2-0 Ayame- 1-0 Dead on Arrival- 1-0 Barley Picker- 1-0 Lethal Injection 3- 1-0 Robot Bastards 2 (5-5) Apathy & Lethargy- 2-1 Trump ex Machina- 0-3 Rainbow in the Dark- 3-1 (6-3) Ruination: The Upheaval (20-8) Ayame- 6-1 Marauder- 6-1 Dreadnought Mk3- 3-4 Lethal Injection 3- 5-2 ALL-TIME RECORD Wins: 347 Losses: 230
Notable Achievements on Advanced Robot Combat for make benefit glorious Team of Ice Cubed Robotics
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| succotash_54 | Feb 9 2014, 08:14 PM Post #62 |
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Grandmaster Narrator
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The only bot of mine that had "plow-skirting" was Warper. Yellow Cloud at one point had a plow design, and at another had hinged skirts attached to the wedges. But never plow-skirting. Also, I thought we'd moved past the mythology that hinged trumps static wedge each and every time. Guess that was a joke. Btw, if you look closely, toward the lip of each wedge, I lowered the chassis one pixel more, so that it's flush with the wheel and thus ground. Won't be that easy to get under. |
| There are few crimes in our modern society that merit public beating. Interrupting someone's enjoyment of Messiah to request "Jingle Bells" by the Singing Dogs is irrefutably one such offense. | |
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| That Kode Guy | Feb 9 2014, 08:17 PM Post #63 |
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Ruiner of All
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Yes, but a 4WD+ static wedge is never going to be flush with the ground, as the robot won't rest on the wedge, only the wheels, so they're be clearance under it. 2WD static wedges are basically huge hinged wedges. |
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| succotash_54 | Feb 9 2014, 08:27 PM Post #64 |
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Grandmaster Narrator
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It doesn't need to rest on the ground in order to be flush with it. Besides which, I repeat, "I thought we'd moved past the mythology that hinged trumps static wedge each and every time." I know I didn't buy into that when I wrote results. |
| There are few crimes in our modern society that merit public beating. Interrupting someone's enjoyment of Messiah to request "Jingle Bells" by the Singing Dogs is irrefutably one such offense. | |
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| NFX | Feb 9 2014, 08:37 PM Post #65 |
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Fuck Bitches Get Crystals
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A four-wheel drive, or even a three-wheel drive wedge will not be flush with the ground. There will need to be clearance underneath it, or the drive wheels will be lifted off the ground and fail to operate correctly. The minimum number of points of contact an object needs to be stable is three. In a two-wheel drive machine, the third point is the wedge, so yes, it would be flush with the ground there. But if you add any more wheels, the wedge is no longer needed as a third point of contact, so is not flush with the ground, and making it a point of contact would render at least one of the wheels redundant. |
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Team Mongoose (358-215) "The Colour of Awesome" Braveheart / Crash Blossom / Depth Charge / Broken Ghost / Murder Death Unit / Agent X RoBattle Override - 13 pts MiDAS - 12 pts it was a gigantic masturbation of polygons :v - That Kode Guy | |
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| That Kode Guy | Feb 9 2014, 08:41 PM Post #66 |
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Ruiner of All
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Philip, how is that even possible? A 2WD wedge rests on the wheels and wedge, because it can't rest on just the two wheels. Same with a hinged wedge, pretty much. However if you have 3 or more wheels on a bot with a static wedge, you're going to be able to balance on those wheels and not rest on a wedge. To get the most out of a wedge, you're going to have to lean on it and give it weight. So yeah, a hinged wedge would definitely trump a static wedge every time. Provided the static wedge has 3 or more wheels. |
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| GF93 | Feb 9 2014, 08:45 PM Post #67 |
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Vi veri veniversum vivus vici.
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How would skirts held down by for example, springs, air pressure or magnets or some other outside force work against a hinged or static wedge? |
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Ice Cubed Robotics "I will not die until I achieve something. Even though the ideal is high, I never give in. Therefore, I never die with regrets." Cherry Bomb Classic: Season 2 (8-0) Swiftsure- 2-0 Torque Dirty 2 Me- 2-0 Ayame- 1-0 Dead on Arrival- 1-0 Barley Picker- 1-0 Lethal Injection 3- 1-0 Robot Bastards 2 (5-5) Apathy & Lethargy- 2-1 Trump ex Machina- 0-3 Rainbow in the Dark- 3-1 (6-3) Ruination: The Upheaval (20-8) Ayame- 6-1 Marauder- 6-1 Dreadnought Mk3- 3-4 Lethal Injection 3- 5-2 ALL-TIME RECORD Wins: 347 Losses: 230
Notable Achievements on Advanced Robot Combat for make benefit glorious Team of Ice Cubed Robotics
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| succotash_54 | Feb 9 2014, 08:53 PM Post #68 |
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Grandmaster Narrator
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You can design a wedge so that it AND the wheels touch the ground. Perfectly flush with each other. The bot will still be able to move and the wedge maintains its lowness. Also, a static wedge has the weight of the bot behind it, whereas a hinged does not. Besides which, I believe there have been real robotic matches where the static got under a hinged. It's not a hierarchy (loerarchy?). especially if it's STEEP wedge skirting. Funny thing is, when YC DID have hinged wedges attached to the static ones, it got ridiculed for being needlessly redundant, and that a hinged wedge didn't add any extra lowness to the bot. Edited by succotash_54, Feb 9 2014, 08:57 PM.
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| There are few crimes in our modern society that merit public beating. Interrupting someone's enjoyment of Messiah to request "Jingle Bells" by the Singing Dogs is irrefutably one such offense. | |
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| That Kode Guy | Feb 9 2014, 11:05 PM Post #69 |
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Ruiner of All
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Are you talking about the Revolution YC? Well it certainly didn't deserve that ridicule, those hinged wedges would have helped a lot. I still maintain that having 3 or more wheels on a robot is going to make a static wedge of little-to-worth. You might very, VERY lightly brush the ground but it won't have the same leverage against a 2WD static wedge. Also, I'll correct myself a bit. Hinged wedging is a variable, depending on how it's done. I'll agree that if it's steep wedging, chances are it won't be effective. But in most cases they would be able to defeat a 3WD+ static wedge. |
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| succotash_54 | Feb 10 2014, 12:44 AM Post #70 |
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Grandmaster Narrator
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I don't mind it as a generality. The thought and theory are lovely. But calling it hard and fast as sure as Jack beats 10 in War is neither right nor realistic. IIRC, Biohazard had to shave a little off the bottoms of his hinged skirts because they kept getting caught in grooves between tiles on the Battlebox. That's where my results had to be drawn from that context. Get the spherical chicken out of the vacuum. In real life combat, a hinged wedge won't always hold up. A solid wedge on a 4WD will get under a hinged or spring-loaded from time to time, and I wasn't afraid to reflect that reality in our competitions. I also thought that at some point in the future, we should try a tourney with an added "Sux2BU" feature, where each week, one robot is selected at random to just malfunction, because that happens in real fights. Something just didn't go like it should have (SoW is off-balance, they forgot to put fresh batteries in Tazbot, Wacky Compass can't get his weapons working, etc.), and fights are sometimes decided that way. So I thought we should do that... with the understanding that once a team loses a fight because they drew the Sux2BU short straw, they can't draw it for the rest of the season. That would be a killer thing to have, and really make the final weeks of regular competition even more harrowing. |
| There are few crimes in our modern society that merit public beating. Interrupting someone's enjoyment of Messiah to request "Jingle Bells" by the Singing Dogs is irrefutably one such offense. | |
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| NWOWWE | Feb 10 2014, 08:57 AM Post #71 |
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Team Blood Gulch Motto
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I don't think anyone said it was 100% that a static wedge would always lose to a hinged wedge, so I'm not sure where you keep getting that from. Though obviously you still have some belief in the wedge hierarchy yourself since you have magnets on Babaganoush even though I thought we banned magnets a long time ago specifically after bots like Drive and Falling Down And you were around for those so you can't plead ignorance from time away), but whatever. Let's be realistic though. You're basically entering an 8+ year old design and it's arguably been de-evolved from previous versions of it you've entered. I say arguably because the last two versions of Yellow Cloud really weren't all that great. The plow version could have been pretty decent, but you gave it ridiculous drive set-up that didn't work. The hinged wedge version had a decent theory behind it, but you also had nothing to hold the bots on the hinged wedge and it was basically flat at ground level so it was really like an open dustpan that bots could easily drive off of. Getting back to Yellow Cloud as entered, take a look at his wedge and take a look at all the other wedges entered in SHW. You're going to have to be busting your ass to get the advantage on most of them, because in an "all things equal" showdown I seriously don't see Yellow Cloud coming out on top on a regular/consistent basis. It's not impossible and come to think of it the Wedge stat may have actually been able to help you here if it was still around. Oh well. I hated this suggestion back when you first proposed it and I don't like any more now. It's not really in keeping with the spirit of how CFL works. 1. I've always maintained that as writers we've made matches a lot more competent than they would be in real life. Real life fights can have a lot more "dead air" time when basically nothing is really happening than we ever would have happen in a CFL result. Unless your RP was complete garbage people generally don't run into walls/hazards or completely whiff on targeting their opponent. 2. Mathematically it completely fails. If we were to implement this in No Mercy for example, then having one bot at random selected each week and then having that team removed from the pool you're left with two very shitty possibilities. Either someone actually runs the risk of this happening to them DURING THE PLAYOFFS (God forbid even during the FINALS and please let this happen to someone like either you or GF who are on record for having the worst reactions to losing in the playoffs), or you have a few teams actually escape having it happen to them during the season at all (and please let someone like me NOT get the free pass and Kody does so I have even more reason to set him adrift )! Simply put there aren't enough weeks in the regular season to accommodate this rotating schedule. And I'm not much for stacking multiple "lol Sucks to be you" fights in one week because dealing with the one person who got shit on that week is likely bad enough, as a Staff member I'm sure not keen to deal with multiple such people in one week.3. Unlike you I don't particular like crapping on people's hard effort in RP's. If you wanted to do something like this against someone who turned in godawful last minute or even a joke RP, then by all means do so cause they're kind of asking for it anyway. And wait for the shitstorm that could happen if someone with a good RP drew the bad straw against an opponent that turn in a crappy RP. You can't even artificially block this from happening because it completely defeats the "random" nature of the whole idea. |
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| playzooki | Feb 10 2014, 10:30 AM Post #72 |
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oi
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Maybe an idea would be a reliability stat? |
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March or Die - Ruination: The Omen MW Last Eight, Ruination: The Omen Tag Team Champion (with the Green Hornet / NWOWWE), Ruination: The Contagion MW CHAMPION Corrupt Politician - Reign of Steel SHW Finalist Murder Is Fun! - Reign of Steel HW Semi-Finalist Shrek - Hammerfall 4th Place
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| That Kode Guy | Feb 10 2014, 10:35 AM Post #73 |
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Ruiner of All
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Why should we have to worry about reliability? This isn't real life and no robot in this competition is going to break down retardedly in the middle of a fight.
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| GF93 | Feb 10 2014, 11:02 AM Post #74 |
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Vi veri veniversum vivus vici.
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Aye. If reliability were such a big factor, odds are we would end up having matches like this...
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Ice Cubed Robotics "I will not die until I achieve something. Even though the ideal is high, I never give in. Therefore, I never die with regrets." Cherry Bomb Classic: Season 2 (8-0) Swiftsure- 2-0 Torque Dirty 2 Me- 2-0 Ayame- 1-0 Dead on Arrival- 1-0 Barley Picker- 1-0 Lethal Injection 3- 1-0 Robot Bastards 2 (5-5) Apathy & Lethargy- 2-1 Trump ex Machina- 0-3 Rainbow in the Dark- 3-1 (6-3) Ruination: The Upheaval (20-8) Ayame- 6-1 Marauder- 6-1 Dreadnought Mk3- 3-4 Lethal Injection 3- 5-2 ALL-TIME RECORD Wins: 347 Losses: 230
Notable Achievements on Advanced Robot Combat for make benefit glorious Team of Ice Cubed Robotics
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| playzooki | Feb 10 2014, 11:49 AM Post #75 |
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oi
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that was a good fight. i really wanna see that in animated form ![]() but yeah it was just a suggestion, fair enough if you dont want it. i think there may have been a thing like that once on fra that had a reliability stat. idk though. |
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March or Die - Ruination: The Omen MW Last Eight, Ruination: The Omen Tag Team Champion (with the Green Hornet / NWOWWE), Ruination: The Contagion MW CHAMPION Corrupt Politician - Reign of Steel SHW Finalist Murder Is Fun! - Reign of Steel HW Semi-Finalist Shrek - Hammerfall 4th Place
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| succotash_54 | Feb 10 2014, 09:38 PM Post #76 |
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Grandmaster Narrator
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That's why I made them electromagnets. Electromagnets can be deactivated if you power down the source for them. Run them on a separate battery and you can power them down on your controller.
FWIW, I don't think there was anything wrong with the drive setup on the plow. It was novel, but there really wasn't anything that was terrible about it. As for the dustpan, I think they were short enough that once an opponent was up on the hinged wedge, it'd ride up on the main wedge in just a second or two later.
Josh, you've known me how long? I think you know that busting my ass is one of the things I do best. I just don't want to be declared DOA because of a fake premise. As far as the Sux2BU thing, I thought I said "regular season." As in, NOT during the tie-breakers, quarters, semis, or finals. If we're not running enough fights for everyone to face everyone else, than I understand your contention. And DRD and panicattack have much worse records for reacting badly to losing in the playoffs. And I'm calling fucking bullshit on your accusation that I like crapping on people's hard effort in RPs. I don't like to do it, but it's a proposition in reaction to those who want matches and results to be more realistic (also responding to your point 1). You may like it that the fights lack the realism that can make an actual fight boring to watch, but everyone in their RPs (you and me included) tries to argue what would "realistically happen" in the kinds of scenarios they conjur up, and there had been tut-tutting about our results not reflecting realism enough. That's how torque became more than pushing power, and why it got swapped in some instances for traction. Edited by succotash_54, Feb 10 2014, 09:41 PM.
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| There are few crimes in our modern society that merit public beating. Interrupting someone's enjoyment of Messiah to request "Jingle Bells" by the Singing Dogs is irrefutably one such offense. | |
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| NWOWWE | Feb 10 2014, 10:23 PM Post #77 |
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Team Blood Gulch Motto
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I'm not sure the rules really allow for something like that, and it basically sounds very similar conceptually to the "suspension system" GF tried on his LW a couple seasons ago. That wasn't really allowed without it detracting from his weapon stat since it's basically an active component of your bot. In any case magnets are magnets are magnets and I'm still pretty sure we got rid of them entirely. Well I'm pretty sure Chris and I discussed the scoop set-up drive issue with you at the time. Considering that you were only ever using half your drive at any given time you were unquestionably gimping yourself. If a bot has half it's wheels off the floor it tends to be a bad thing. And you're doing it to yourself! Either way it's all a moot point now. This is actually one of the reasons I'm rather shocked that you seem so gung-ho on the sucks to be you thing. I'd have figured you of all people wouldn't want to gamble a (potentially very important) fight on a random chance just for the sake of a "realistic" gimmick. At any rate the main issue comes from the fact that Yellow Cloud is an old has hell design. It would be like if I used the "flat side" Zombie Killer. Yeah it won a championship, but I'd be pretty dumb to still be using THAT bot in today's tournaments. I was being somewhat facetious with that. Mostly the season where you lost your bots in the first round of the playoffs and then completely took over ALL of the semi-final results the final week (where the rest of the staff members surprisingly ended up losing) came to mind. Bringing up GF is a much more straight example. And I was just drawing from current competitors. Tony didn't rage on the playoffs as much as wipe his ass with his playoffs spots. DRD of course is in class by himself. Well let's be fair, even when you did the scripts you never really included all that "realistic, boring stuff" in those, even though you had full artistic license to do so. And for good reason. No one wants to read that kind of fight or read how bot got caught on cracks in the floor because that happens in "real life". This is CFL. The "fantasy" part is important. Well not completely. I mean to a certain extent you are correct that people will gameplan for what would happen, but I very rarely come across people RPing about the more mundane things like getting caught in floor cracks or after a spinner hits a bot both just sit around doing pretty much nothing for several seconds. I think we can make a distinction between people wanting things represented accurately or wanting them As Seen On TV! |
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| GF93 | Feb 10 2014, 10:39 PM Post #78 |
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Vi veri veniversum vivus vici.
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Indeed. Just to clarify, he's referring to Conqueror, which used a suspension system driven by a series of compressed air-powered pumps, as demonstrated below. I'd intended for it to be used to raise or lower its ground clearance to drive over wedges and other robots, lean into its turns to improve agility, and drive its wedge tip into the ground to improve its ability to get under opponents. ![]() Although it was allowed in the end, it caused controversy when it was discovered and I had to alter it so that it was an optional feature- I could still use it, but if I did, it'd take some power away from the Primary Weapon. Basically- I think what Josh means is that these sorts of tertiary features, like skirts that stick down via air pressure or magnets or whatever are allowed, but would have to count as part of the multiple-weapon rule if you did plan on using them. |
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Ice Cubed Robotics "I will not die until I achieve something. Even though the ideal is high, I never give in. Therefore, I never die with regrets." Cherry Bomb Classic: Season 2 (8-0) Swiftsure- 2-0 Torque Dirty 2 Me- 2-0 Ayame- 1-0 Dead on Arrival- 1-0 Barley Picker- 1-0 Lethal Injection 3- 1-0 Robot Bastards 2 (5-5) Apathy & Lethargy- 2-1 Trump ex Machina- 0-3 Rainbow in the Dark- 3-1 (6-3) Ruination: The Upheaval (20-8) Ayame- 6-1 Marauder- 6-1 Dreadnought Mk3- 3-4 Lethal Injection 3- 5-2 ALL-TIME RECORD Wins: 347 Losses: 230
Notable Achievements on Advanced Robot Combat for make benefit glorious Team of Ice Cubed Robotics
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| succotash_54 | Feb 10 2014, 10:53 PM Post #79 |
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Grandmaster Narrator
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I remember them being annoying as hell to deal with, but I don't remember their outright banishment. I disagreed with that because the point was that the bot was still capable of being that fast and that torquey even with only two wheels on the ground at any time. But yeah moot. Old, but not obsolete. And I actually evolved the design a little bit, but no one's noticed. There are a lot of familiar names this season too, so I don't think "old" is at issue. I took over the results for efficiency's sake. Since I had no dogs in the fights anymore, I was a completely neutral party. Plus, at that time, I was doing overnight shifts at the station where I had the better part of six hours to do as pleased, pretty much. I wanted to keep things running tight and smooth. The staff losing... that was not intentional. I called those fights equitably as I always strove too. That's the flat-out truth.
I've written a few misses and getting caught in scripts before, I think. I don't do it in general because it doesn't lend itself well to the scripting process. No, but I did account for those things in my results. Spinners tended to get manhandled because of low torque inhibited their abilities to get back up to speed in time. I even wrote a results where the key in the fight actually turned out to be design issues that NEITHER Roleplayer accounted for. True, but I still remember vividly people being pissed because things weren't "realistic" enough. Shit, remember when I wrote the fight where Zed Leppelin won? I got shit because I didn't accurately detail the recoil of the harpoon. Which mattered naught, because the opponent's strategy was "take advantage of their inevitable fucking up", which I didn't think was inherent. |
| There are few crimes in our modern society that merit public beating. Interrupting someone's enjoyment of Messiah to request "Jingle Bells" by the Singing Dogs is irrefutably one such offense. | |
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| Badnik96 | Feb 10 2014, 10:59 PM Post #80 |
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You're just a voice pal, you don't know a damn thing about racing!
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God this is like the third season in a row where we've found issues with someone's bot after signups close. I thought the staff was supposed to go through everything or something. |
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Team Ignition WhipCoil - The Crash & Burn Tournament 5 Champion Redline - Robot Bastards LW Champion Sling Shot - Bot-o-Rama 2016 Sportsman Champion The Debilitator - Cherry Bomb Classic Lightweight Champion Pyrite - FRR Backlash Lightweight Champion Doomerang - Robot Fight Night Heavyweight Champion [/color]
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9:10 AM Jul 11
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)! Simply put there aren't enough weeks in the regular season to accommodate this rotating schedule. And I'm not much for stacking multiple "lol Sucks to be you" fights in one week because dealing with the one person who got shit on that week is likely bad enough, as a Staff member I'm sure not keen to deal with multiple such people in one week.


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9:10 AM Jul 11