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| Wideband Lambda/datalogger Install; Justa quick progress update | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Mar 8 2009, 06:44 PM (928 Views) | |
| ScoobaJon | Mar 16 2009, 12:25 AM Post #26 |
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a power-fc. i wanted a simtek but the software licensing is a bit anal
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| Zed2k | Mar 16 2009, 07:59 AM Post #27 |
Here to stay
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Good on ya, I mapped my car myself after going turbo from triple Dcoe weber carbs, I am using a LM-1 just for the air/fuel reading and then using Megasquirt 1extra for datalogging and tuning etc. has 313bhp at the fly with good power and torque curves. I think the key is to take it easy and do a bit at a time. I will still get Read performance to tune the top end as it runs rich under full boost, and it's kind of hard to tune those areas on the public road..water/alch injection is a good safe guard too really gets the intake temps down under boost. Keep it up |
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Old Zeds don't die they just get FASTER!!! | |
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| RA Jay | Mar 16 2009, 05:39 PM Post #28 |
4 Have Gone But Never Forgotten.
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Im not sure but i heard the power FC mapping software is in Japanese..? Why is the simtek software license anal?....its readily available if you buy the ecu at an extra cost. I think it works out about £100 for software and lead. |
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1995 WRX - 318bhp/300ftlb - SOLD - 2005 2001 WRX Bugeye - 235bhp/230ftlb - SOLD - 2007 1996 WRX Type RA - 282bhp/285ftlb - SOLD - 2008 1997 STI Type RA - 350bhp/320ftlb - SOLD - 2009 1991 Nissan Pulsar GTiR - 286bhp/280ftlb - SOLD - 2009 | |
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| ScoobaJon | Mar 17 2009, 07:34 PM Post #29 |
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Cheers Zed2k, good to hear from someone else who has managed it. Depending on how things go i might get the top end done on a dyno aswell. I'm dreading the full power runs. @Jay: Yeah thats right, it is. You have to buy FC-DataLogIt if you want to map it with a laptop. You can also map it with the hand controller with a lot of patients which is what I intend to do. I thought the SimTek software was £200 but i might be wrong. The thing that put me off is that you have to pay again if you want to get it mapped/tweaked professionally. Your ECU is effectively locked to one mapper from my understanding |
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| RA Jay | Mar 17 2009, 08:01 PM Post #30 |
4 Have Gone But Never Forgotten.
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The majority of ECU's are locked to the guy that maps it. I Paid 300quid for a full custom map from JGM. Now for him to tweek it, it will only cost £150 but if i went to another mapper he will start from scratch so it will be £300 again. The reason they are locked is to stop other mappers or anyone stealing the maps. |
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1995 WRX - 318bhp/300ftlb - SOLD - 2005 2001 WRX Bugeye - 235bhp/230ftlb - SOLD - 2007 1996 WRX Type RA - 282bhp/285ftlb - SOLD - 2008 1997 STI Type RA - 350bhp/320ftlb - SOLD - 2009 1991 Nissan Pulsar GTiR - 286bhp/280ftlb - SOLD - 2009 | |
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| ScoobaJon | Mar 18 2009, 09:23 PM Post #31 |
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yeah thats right, every time you take it to a new mapper they have to pay SimTek for a license and hence charge you more. it works out well for the mappers tho as they know they've pretty much got a customer for life if they sell one. i'd like an M800 ideally so i can stick it in any car i buy but they're just silly money
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| RA Jay | Mar 18 2009, 10:35 PM Post #32 |
4 Have Gone But Never Forgotten.
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Jon, there is no licence charge for a simtek, i think you have your wires crossed with ECUtek. |
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1995 WRX - 318bhp/300ftlb - SOLD - 2005 2001 WRX Bugeye - 235bhp/230ftlb - SOLD - 2007 1996 WRX Type RA - 282bhp/285ftlb - SOLD - 2008 1997 STI Type RA - 350bhp/320ftlb - SOLD - 2009 1991 Nissan Pulsar GTiR - 286bhp/280ftlb - SOLD - 2009 | |
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| ScoobaJon | Mar 18 2009, 10:56 PM Post #33 |
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no it was definitely SimTek. have a look at this thread (4th post down): http://www.southwestscoobies.org.uk/showthread.php?t=7232 |
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| RA Jay | Mar 18 2009, 11:11 PM Post #34 |
4 Have Gone But Never Forgotten.
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Firstly Jon that thread is 2 years old!!... Secondly....Yes, the software is specific to each ECU and each ECU has its own serial number on the PCB. The ecu is not locked to the guy who supply's and maps it but the map is locked so no other mapper can see the map. My simtek was originally supplied and mapped at Enginetuner. Prior to JGM mapping it i gave him the ECU number to which he contacted Simtek(Steve Simpson) who emailed him the software to enable him to access it. Now say for instance i wanted someone else to map all i would do is give them the serial number for the right software and the process starts again. |
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1995 WRX - 318bhp/300ftlb - SOLD - 2005 2001 WRX Bugeye - 235bhp/230ftlb - SOLD - 2007 1996 WRX Type RA - 282bhp/285ftlb - SOLD - 2008 1997 STI Type RA - 350bhp/320ftlb - SOLD - 2009 1991 Nissan Pulsar GTiR - 286bhp/280ftlb - SOLD - 2009 | |
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| ScoobaJon | Mar 19 2009, 12:37 AM Post #35 |
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oh right, i thought there was a cost involved with getting a key to remap it. admittedly, despite searching for ages, I could find very little about it.. it has got some nice features although i wouldn't really see the benefit on my setup. i don't have a laptop ether and by the time i'd bought one and the software, a self map would be completely unfeasible thats also what swayed me towards the PFC. an upgrade may be in order though if i every get tempted by a bigger turbo. i love the sound of anti-lag
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| ScoobaJon | Apr 18 2009, 05:23 PM Post #36 |
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Well progress on this has been very slow.. I spent every spare minute on the car running up to the track day and got a bit sick of working on it. I was then hit with an annoying ignition problem which took awhile to diagnose. Anyway the car is running well again so I went out and had a play with the Power-FC today. Unfortunately I did little more then confirm my suspicions that the hand controller is just not up to the job. I started off by correcting the Air/Fuel ratios around idle which went well. The problem is, I have no way of logging engine load (Y axis on the map). This means that if I see a problem in the logs, I have no way of correlating this to a cell in the map. The PFC does have a map tracer which your supposed to be able to use for this purpose but its just to small a fiddly to be used practically. This means that I need to buy the mapping software for the PFC which is about £220 second hand As PFC prices have gone up so much lately, another option is to sell it and get an OMEX 600. I can get one of these for £473, the software is free, and it seems to have all the features of a Motec worth thousands. I need to do a bit more investigation but if it's as good as it seems, i'll get one in a group buy and have some progress around mid may
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| RA Jay | Apr 18 2009, 05:46 PM Post #37 |
4 Have Gone But Never Forgotten.
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John there a places on the net where the software is free., its just finding it..
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1995 WRX - 318bhp/300ftlb - SOLD - 2005 2001 WRX Bugeye - 235bhp/230ftlb - SOLD - 2007 1996 WRX Type RA - 282bhp/285ftlb - SOLD - 2008 1997 STI Type RA - 350bhp/320ftlb - SOLD - 2009 1991 Nissan Pulsar GTiR - 286bhp/280ftlb - SOLD - 2009 | |
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| ScoobaJon | Apr 18 2009, 05:50 PM Post #38 |
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yeah its annoying, i have the software installed on my pc already, i just need the little box which allows you to connect it to the power-fc. i have also looked for a wiring diagram for ages but to no avail
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| LegacyTurbo | Apr 19 2009, 12:44 AM Post #39 |
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omex is good, but tricky lol |
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[GK-customfield]Lewis[customfield-GK] Starlet GT 1.3 forged engine, tdo4 turbo @ 1.25bar = 252bhp = SOLD ![]() EDIT: Charade GTxx 993cc three cylinder turbo, 173bhp @ 1.4bar (should hit 200bhp with a larger throttle body, removing stupid high lift cams and a bit more boost) | |
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| ScoobaJon | Apr 19 2009, 04:31 AM Post #40 |
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yeah it does look like a good bit of kit for the money but i've just found out that the 600 can't do sequential fuel injection so it's a no go for the scoob unfortunately i'm now looking into megasquirt ECUs but things are getting insanely complicated this is the configuration guide: http://www.megamanual.com/ms2/configure.htm
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| Tiny Tim | Apr 19 2009, 08:32 AM Post #41 |
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Unregistered
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Take a look at Adaptronic Jon, I can get you full support for that
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| RA Jay | Apr 19 2009, 09:36 AM Post #42 |
4 Have Gone But Never Forgotten.
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John, why are you looking at ECU's that are not associated with Subaru tuning? Gems,Motec,Simtek,Autronic,Hydra,Solaris these are the ECU's you should be looking at mate. |
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1995 WRX - 318bhp/300ftlb - SOLD - 2005 2001 WRX Bugeye - 235bhp/230ftlb - SOLD - 2007 1996 WRX Type RA - 282bhp/285ftlb - SOLD - 2008 1997 STI Type RA - 350bhp/320ftlb - SOLD - 2009 1991 Nissan Pulsar GTiR - 286bhp/280ftlb - SOLD - 2009 | |
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| LegacyTurbo | Apr 19 2009, 12:04 PM Post #43 |
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lol Jay, not at all, why follow the crowd? I do think by the time you have found something you want, fitted it and got some kind of map on it, the amount of man hours wasted and money spent you will have wished you just got a simtek like every other bugger gets! or just get the PFC mapped by jolly |
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[GK-customfield]Lewis[customfield-GK] Starlet GT 1.3 forged engine, tdo4 turbo @ 1.25bar = 252bhp = SOLD ![]() EDIT: Charade GTxx 993cc three cylinder turbo, 173bhp @ 1.4bar (should hit 200bhp with a larger throttle body, removing stupid high lift cams and a bit more boost) | |
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| ScoobaJon | Apr 19 2009, 12:45 PM Post #44 |
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I appreciate the advice but It all comes down to cost really at the end of the day. Adaptronic - £595.00 inc loom GEMS - £1656.00 or £1380.00 + loom for generic ECU SimTek £800 + Software Autronic - ? Hydra - From £1169.12 Solaris - Only Up to MY 96 - £1408.82 Motec M4 - £1056.32 + loom OMEX 710 - £1000 inc loom DTA S80 PRO - £950 MegaSquirt £370 inc loom There are people that have used MegaSquirt in Subarus but just not in UK. I can understand why mappers wouldn't want to use them as they are no plug and play adapters available. The best thing about them IMO is the software is completely open source and theres a big community surrounding them so plenty of help available. |
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| RA Jay | Apr 19 2009, 04:22 PM Post #45 |
4 Have Gone But Never Forgotten.
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lol.....its not following the crowd Lewis its about using tried and tested products with great back up and support. I can honestly say that in my years of Subaru's ive never heard of anyone(including mappers) mention the Bomex and Megasquirt ecu's for Subaru's. Jon the prices you have quoted are NEW prices, secondhand ECU's can be bought for a lot less. Martin bought a secondhand GEMS from SN lastyear for 400quid which included dongle and mapping software. IMO trying to scimp on an ECU just because the software is free is the wrong way to go about it. |
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1995 WRX - 318bhp/300ftlb - SOLD - 2005 2001 WRX Bugeye - 235bhp/230ftlb - SOLD - 2007 1996 WRX Type RA - 282bhp/285ftlb - SOLD - 2008 1997 STI Type RA - 350bhp/320ftlb - SOLD - 2009 1991 Nissan Pulsar GTiR - 286bhp/280ftlb - SOLD - 2009 | |
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| Tiny Tim | Apr 19 2009, 04:30 PM Post #46 |
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Unregistered
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World would be a boring place if no-one did things differently. I'm gonna start driving my car backwards everywhere
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| ScoobaJon | Apr 19 2009, 05:36 PM Post #47 |
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If my objective was just to get more power from by car that yeah, i'd follow the crowd and get a PFC/SimTeck mapped by The Jolly Green Monster, job done, but i personally would get very little satisfaction from that. I'd prefer to try something new. I would love a career change into something to do with EMS and the best way to learn is just to mess around and try different things out. I know I learn a lot more from setting up a MegaSquirt from scratch than a simi-preconfigured PFC. The problem with commercial ECUs is the lack of support for them. The company's won't offer training as they don't want to tread on the toes of their distributes and the mappers won't help for obvious reasons. I've tried asking about mapping multiple times on scoobynet and got next to no response. MegaSquirt is developed my volunteers and several large forms and a wiki full of information. @Jay I have been on the look out for second hand ECUs for awhile but they very rarely seem to come up. If they do it's usually for the four plug ECU. I saw someone agree to pay 800 for a second hand SimTek at which point I gave up Sounds like Martin got a bargain anyway.
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| ScoobaJon | Jun 4 2009, 09:08 PM Post #48 |
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well this project seems to have been dragging on for what seems like forever but i have made some progress lately so i thought it was time for an update. the Megasquirt turned out to be more hassle that it was worth so I went for an Adaptronic ECU in the end. It does have some nice features: traction control, anti-lag, launch control, gear based boosting, turbo timer, auto learn and it was quite cheap as Tim knew the UK distributer. should be a bargain, if i can get it to work first job was to work out where everything went and build a loom adapter.. ![]() finished.. ![]() just check it works.. ![]() then i had to calibrate the air and coolant temp sensors.. first attempt (connected to the car).. ![]() second attempt.. ![]() ![]() result!.. ![]() now i just need to calibrate the MAP sensor and i can finally get on with some mapping... |
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| Zed2k | Jun 4 2009, 11:01 PM Post #49 |
Here to stay
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Good work, the mapping things can be a pain in the arse keep us updated. |
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Old Zeds don't die they just get FASTER!!! | |
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| agent003 | Jun 4 2009, 11:18 PM Post #50 |
Doesn't have a home to go to!
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Thats great Jon..you either have to much time at hand or have a certain passion within you that is pushing you along at this and I think its the later. It is as some have said that does take time to master these things and indeed you will have to have your own demo car/cars to prove yourself out there as tbh I personally would not hand over my car to be mapped to someone that does not have a good proven reputation at this. In all that being said one has to start somewhere and I am not aware of any mapping schools so providing that an understandig of some things like basic understanding of how stuff works wich you seem to have along with some will power to drive you forward the possibilities could be endless. I have read this thread thoroughly and I belive that you know what is at stake here should you fail and bust your engine as such hence you are expecting the worst and hoping for the best which is a very good starting point due to the fact that you are not doing thing under an ilusion. My general and honest oppinion is that if you like messing around with it and know the risks involved and are prepared to take them then you do it even if just for personal reward
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