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Should parishes run bars?
Topic Started: Saturday, 5. January 2013, 20:46 (153 Views)
Rose of York
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In Miscellaneous Catholic Chat Penfold made a few suggestions of new topics. One was "should parishes run bars"?

http://www.thisissouthwales.co.uk/St-Joseph-s-Club-Greenhill-forced-close-serves/story-17747911-detail/story.html
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A POPULAR Swansea church-based social club is to close, allegedly because it serves alcohol.

The bell is set to toll on St Joseph's Club in Convent Street, Greenhill, for the final time at the end of this month following a decision taken by the trustees of the Diocese of Menevia.

The club, in the grounds of the Cathedral Church of St Joseph, has been operating since 1921 and has enjoyed an drink licence for more than half a century.


I quote from one response to that news.
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I know nothing of this situation, being at the other end of the diocese, but it may be that the Bishop and Trustees are under pressures we are unaware of.
Keep the Faith!

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Rose of York
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I am not keen on parishes having licensed social clubs. Each individual Catholic is a member of the wider local community. Occasional licenses for special parish events suffice the needs of the parish community .
Keep the Faith!

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PJD

They used to run a fully equipped regular one at Herne Bay, Kent. Haven't been there for years, so don't know whether it is still in operation.

PJD
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Deacon Robert
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Good question . Here in New jersey USA, we don't have an overiding license. We need to get a single day permit for each occurance,picnic, dance ,etc. fom the city/ township. It is a pain to get it everytime but a good way to restrict excessive distribution of alcohol.
The burden of life is from ourselves, its lightness from the grace of Christ and the love of God. - William Bernard Ullanthorne

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Gerard

No

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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Rose of York
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If the majority of those parishioners who enjoy going out for a drink use the parish hall in preference to the local pub, we will be seen as a group who want to live in a virtual ghetto, shunning the other members of the local community. When due to health problems or age related frailty they are unable to get to the club they can be socially cut off from their friends due to distance. It is healthy to socialise with the whole community, not restrict oneself to Catholic companions.

My person friends include people of several faiths, an atheist, and people just not interested in religion. They all know I am a Catholic, so if they want to know anything about our beliefs or practices they ask me. Only one other Catholic lives within half a mile of me. The locals never ask him about our Church, they don't know him, his whole life is centred on the parish. He will drive ten miles to cut the presbytery hedge, there are people within a hundred yards of him needing help.

Jesus said "By their fruits you will know them". How will people judge us by our fruits if they don't meet us?

Keep the Faith!

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pat
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I know of one parish (not mine) where the licensed social club had, over the years, become more and more detached from the church. The regulars there were not church goers, and and parishioners drifted away, some of them feeling unwelcome there. When the diocese decided to close the club and use the premises for a new project encouraging vocations there was a very acrimonious meeting held by the punters, at which the poor parish priest was booed and heckled!

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paul

I sometimes go to a local pub after mass on saturday evening with other members of the parish. Don't see the need for a parish bar, too many pubs closing in uk, they need my support!!
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Rose of York
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pat
Sunday, 6. January 2013, 18:12
I know of one parish (not mine) where the licensed social club had, over the years, become more and more detached from the church. The regulars there were not church goers, and and parishioners drifted away, some of them feeling unwelcome there. When the diocese decided to close the club and use the premises for a new project encouraging vocations there was a very acrimonious meeting held by the punters, at which the poor parish priest was booed and heckled!

I heard of a similar parish club, open to all whether or not they were parishioners. As a result, they ended up with a committee comprising more non Catholics than Catholics. They told the parish priest the club, which was situated inside the parish hall, could not be made available for First Communion breakfast, it clashed with a pre-arranged entertainment and as the club paid rent to the parish their view was they had the right to decide who could use it and when.

More than one club has, in my knowledge, been in trouble with Customs and Excise for not registering for VAT. One in the parish where I was born did not register for Corporation Tax, I who worked in taxation matters, had advised the chairman to register. He, who had no such experience, said I "must" be wrong. One day he found a distraint order had been pinned on the door, by Customs and Excise, taking possession of stock and fixtures until the returns were completed and all outstanding VAT paid in full.
Keep the Faith!

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Angus Toanimo
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Parishes shouldn't run bars. There are more than enough pubs closing and people in villages don't support their local pubs leaving pub tenants often homeless and unemployed. All Social Clubs (such as the CIU-affiliated) including parish social clubs should close.
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Rose of York
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Angus, at least the CIU affiliated clubs, most known as Working Mens Clubs, as you will know but some may not, give employment to the manager and staff. Parish clubs tend to be staffed and managed by volunteers, and many who have the administrative responsibility for parish clubs are unaware they must obey all laws that apply to businesses, hence some of them being in hot water over failure to register for Corporation Tax and VAT.

The Charity Commission ruled that parish clubs using premises belonging to a registered charity (usually the Diocesan Trust) must pay the local economic rent to the charity. I wonder how many finance committee chairmen are aware of that.
Keep the Faith!

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Rose of York
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Angus, at least the CIU affiliated clubs, most known as Working Mens Clubs, as you will know but some may not, provide employment for stewards and other employees. Parish clubs tend to be staffed and managed by volunteers, and many who have the administrative responsibility for parish clubs are unaware they must obey all laws that apply to businesses, hence some of them being in hot water over failure to register for Corporation Tax and VAT.

The Charity Commission ruled that parish clubs using premises belonging to a registered charity (usually the Diocesan Trust) must pay the local economic rent to the charity. I wonder how many finance committee chairmen are aware of that.

News report - closure of St Josephs club Swansea

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Numbers have declined but the club, which is open six evenings a week, still has around 100 members aged between 50 and 80.


Angus you have recent experience in the licensed trade. In your opinion could a club with around 100 members generate sufficient income to cover overheads including the local economic rent?
Keep the Faith!

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