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Head of Countryside Alliance wants C of E churches to be available to all faiths
Topic Started: Thursday, 27. December 2012, 11:00 (205 Views)
Rose of York
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/9766230/Church-of-England-should-consider-opening-doors-to-Muslims-and-Hindus.html

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Sir Barney White-Spunner, said he was concerned that churches in villages and towns were falling into disrepair and not being used enough.

He said he was “hugely excited” about opening up churches to other Christian denominations and, in the longer term, other faiths.

He also proposes making churches into community centres which host local markets, nurseries and even police contact points.

Sir Barney, a Roman Catholic, said: “Personally I think it would be hugely exciting, it would restore life and vigour to these incredibly important buildings.

“The poor old Church of England is faced with an enormous bill to maintain these wonderful structures. I happen to be a Roman Catholic.


Quote:
 
He added that in his personal view, other faiths could also use churches. He said: “I personally think that in the long run you can extend it further to other faiths. Britain is changing, as the census has shown.”


Sir Barney White-Spunner is head of the Countryside Alliance. He seems unaware of the purpose for which a church exists. It is primarily a place of Christian worship, not the social centre around which the whole community revolves, whatever religion we are. His idea is as daft as installing a bar, and stocking it with alchohol, in a Temperance Hall. If he is concerned that churches in villages and towns were falling into disrepair and not being used enough he could suggest Christians evangelise, convert people to belief in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Keep the Faith!

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Gerard

I quite agree. I heard this interview on R4 and it made me feel uneasy. It was more about heritage and nice rural villages than anything else.

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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CARLO
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I don't know Sir Barney but I think his remarks are well meant.

Remember that many of the Anglican churches were originally our churches. They were stolen from us during the reformation. They are of huge historical and spiritual significance. Many are also of architectural importance and are officially recognised as such.

I ask those who mock Sir Barney's remarks this.

What would you do with these buildings?

Knock them down? Sell them for use as bars, restaurants or conversion to multi-occupation residential units? Let them rot?

The suggestion of more community use is a sensible one.

In my own parish our church is listed and receives the benefit of quite generous grants from public and charitable funds. Some of these grants are dependent on increased and monitored access for the public and improved signage and free explanatory leaflets for non-catholic visitors. It all seems to work very well.

Much of it I think is down to the imagination and intelligence of our former parish priest.

Veritas
Truth


CARLO

:hereticrepellent:
Judica me Deus
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Derekap
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Would you find many Catholics in small villages and, if there are, would there be priests to serve them? The villages and small towns around Ampleforth Abbey have Catholic Chapels which are served by the monks. But how many such Abbeys have we?

Ampeforth village has a Catholic chapel, a CoE church and a Methodist chapel - there used to be the then closed two Weslyan Chapels - one described as 'Primitive'.
Derekap
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Rose of York
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CARLO
Thursday, 27. December 2012, 22:33
Remember that many of the Anglican churches were originally our churches. They were stolen from us during the reformation. They are of huge historical and spiritual significance. Many are also of architectural importance and are officially recognised as such.

I ask those who mock Sir Barney's remarks this.
I opened the topic, and expressed my disagreement with Sir Barney White-Spunner's suggestions for future use of C of E Churches. Gerry posted, agreeing with me. Neither of us mocked. This is a discussion forum, we air our opinions, seek out the thoughts of others.
Keep the Faith!

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Rose of York
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Derekap
Thursday, 27. December 2012, 22:44
Would you find many Catholics in small villages and, if there are, would there be priests to serve them? The villages and small towns around Ampleforth Abbey have Catholic Chapels which are served by the monks. But how many such Abbeys have we?

Ampeforth village has a Catholic chapel, a CoE church and a Methodist chapel - there used to be the then closed two Weslyan Chapels - one described as 'Primitive'.
My village, with a few hundred people, has 3 practicing Catholics. It is usual for there to be a Catholic chapel of ease in a small town, with population of a few thousand people or large village with up to (generally) about 1000 to 2000. The chapel will have one Vigil or Sunday Mass and perhaps one or two weekday Masses. The parish priest will be based in a larger town that serves all the Catholics in surrounding villages.

Our village has a Church of England church. They used to have a vicar in each village. Now, three village churches share a vicar. Once a month their service is advertised as "All together", that is when the three congregations gather in one church, each village church being used in rotation for the monthly event. I know of one vicar who serves five churches!
Keep the Faith!

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Rose of York
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CARLO
Thursday, 27. December 2012, 22:33
What would you do with these buildings?

Knock them down? Sell them for use as bars, restaurants or conversion to multi-occupation residential units? Let them rot?

The suggestion of more community use is a sensible one.
That would not be successful in many village churches, because few villages could make full use of a village hall and additional community facilities in the village church. Where I live the villages have superb halls, built during the past 10 to 15 years, beautifully equipped, spacious, warm, on level land. A typical village church has no hall, and the church building will have poor facilities.

I do not approve of Christian churches being used for the worship of false Gods. Muslims, Jews and Hindus have their own beliefs in a divine being, and pray according to theirfaith, in this country they rightly have freedom of worship. However I am of the opinion it would be wrong to allow the use of a Christian Church for the worship of any "deity" other than the Blessed Trinity. There is no other deity. There is One True God.

CARLO
Thursday, 27. December 2012, 22:33
What would you do with these buildings?

Knock them down? Sell them for use as bars, restaurants or conversion to multi-occupation residential units? Let them rot?
Certainly not, I made no such suggestion. Please God, the majority of members, clerical and lay, of the Church of England will one day come Home to Rome and the old churches and Cathedrals be returned to the Catholic Church. How long that will take is anybody's guess.
Keep the Faith!

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Seren

CARLO
Thursday, 27. December 2012, 22:33
What would you do with these buildings?

Knock them down? ...... Let them rot?


CARLO

:wink: Oh yes, CARLO, definitely, if they have outlived their useful life!
A lot of buildings are worth saving, but no wish to turn the UK into a Victorian/Edwardian theme park.
But perhaps I'm veering towards another existing thread we are only too, too familiar with..
:stirthepot:
Edited by Seren, Friday, 28. December 2012, 00:09.
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CARLO
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Rose

I certainly would not like to see Christian churches in active use also be used for non-Christian worship.


Pax


CARLO

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Judica me Deus
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Rose of York
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CARLO
Friday, 28. December 2012, 00:40
Rose

I certainly would not like to see Christian churches in active use also be used for non-Christian worship.


Pax


CARLO

:hereticrepellent:
Quote:
 
Sir Barney White-Spunner, said he was concerned that churches in villages and towns were falling into disrepair and not being used enough.

He said he was “hugely excited” about opening up churches to other Christian denominations and, in the longer term, other faiths.


This man says he is a Catholic, I wonder if he would want to see his own church used for non-Christian worship.
Keep the Faith!

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Deleted User
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I agree with the thrust of Carlo's first post. Going further than he would--I apologise if I am assuming too much Carlo-- i would say that the retention of these buildings is important for the community and that to that end any non-harmful use is ok. All buildings are just bricks/stone and mortar after all and I would be happy to see any religion using our churches for their worship. And no, I don't mean devil-worshippers etc.

John
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CARLO
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John Sweeney
Sunday, 30. December 2012, 23:38
I agree with the thrust of Carlo's first post. Going further than he would--I apologise if I am assuming too much Carlo-- i would say that the retention of these buildings is important for the community and that to that end any non-harmful use is ok. All buildings are just bricks/stone and mortar after all and I would be happy to see any religion using our churches for their worship. And no, I don't mean devil-worshippers etc.

John
Thanks John.

We share our churches in some areas with other Christian denominations including within my parish. However I would not be happy for non-Christian worship to take place in a Catholic church building.

Pax tecum
Peace to you


CARLO

:hereticrepellent:
Judica me Deus
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Paduan
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I quite agree that Christian places of worship, if they have to be used by more than one denomination, should only be used by those who have a Trinitarian faith (i.e this would generally mean those churches that belong to Churches Together). I too get very uneasy when I see a former Christian building being repurposed for, say, a Sikh temple (as has happened near where I grew up).

The one thing I would insist on (were I to have the authority to do so) would be that no multi-denominational-but-Christian building should have the Blessed Sacrament reserved within it, at the absolute very least not in the same physical space which was then used by other denominations for their own services.

Certainly I would like to see those CofE buildings, especially rural ones, that are in danger of falling out of use or into terminal disrepair made available for more Christian worship. However sometimes the CofE actively tries to obstruct. A case in point: in a village in Norfolk, near where I live, a surplus CofE church was sold and it was made available for community use by the new owners. However, they were expressly forbidden by the covenants written into the deeds of transfer of the building from making the church available for Roman Catholic worship. They could use it for Pagan worship if they wanted, or Muslim, or anything else except Roman Catholic. Now I'm not sure how well that would stand up in court, but the barrier that sort of thing places to good ecumenical relations is outrageous.
Edited by Paduan, Wednesday, 2. January 2013, 13:19.
Agnus Dei, qui tollis peccata mundi, miserere nobis.
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Deleted User
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I understand the instinctive reaction against non-Christian worship in our church buildings. But is there any logical basis for this? Who could possibly be offended? I am sure Almighty God is well above human emotions like this and I am equally certain that his presence in the Blessed Sacrament is perfectly capable of coping if some of his children with different faiths invade his space, so to speak. Are we sure we are not simply exercising our human prejudices and justifying this by pretending to defend the dignity of a Deity who doesn't need our help?

John
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