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Christmas can be a tough time of year
Topic Started: Thursday, 6. December 2012, 22:53 (560 Views)
paul

Carlo I too agree with some of your points. My church is not being opened to the homeless, far from it. Too busy with all the whistles and bells that occur at this time of the year!
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Penfold
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Carlo, I agree with you that we should be sensible about how we make provision for the homeless and that some church buildings are not suitable for general use. I have on occasions allowed people to sleep in the church but they are to be out by the time the church is to be used for a service, they take their rubbish with them, in return they get a night out of the wind and rain, they also get a mug of soup and a sandwich and a mug of tea to send them on their way in the morning. However I would prefer to ensure that a proper hostel were equipped and run in all towns. If one exists then as has been suggested, the parish can support it in what ever way is agreed to be appropriate. I think that a place of prayer and worship need to exist in a world with so many other distractions and so their use as makeshift hostels should be with care and sensitivity. What toilet and shower facilities are there, what provision for fire evacuation, most churches would fail on that count, what provision for delousing, and fumigation, what provision for... well as Carlo said we should not be naive in making provisions for the homeless but be positive in ensuring the best provision possible, if it is only possible by allowing a cold, wet and bedraggled person spend a night sleeping on a church pew then that is what we must do. I pray we can do better.
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CARLO
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paul
Tuesday, 11. December 2012, 21:06
Carlo I too agree with some of your points. My church is not being opened to the homeless, far from it. Too busy with all the whistles and bells that occur at this time of the year!
Paul

We have bells all year round although I have yet to hear a whistle.

Oremus

CARLO

:betterLatin:

Judica me Deus
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CARLO
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Penfold
Tuesday, 11. December 2012, 21:15
Carlo, I agree with you that we should be sensible about how we make provision for the homeless and that some church buildings are not suitable for general use. I have on occasions allowed people to sleep in the church but they are to be out by the time the church is to be used for a service, they take their rubbish with them, in return they get a night out of the wind and rain, they also get a mug of soup and a sandwich and a mug of tea to send them on their way in the morning. However I would prefer to ensure that a proper hostel were equipped and run in all towns. If one exists then as has been suggested, the parish can support it in what ever way is agreed to be appropriate. I think that a place of prayer and worship need to exist in a world with so many other distractions and so their use as makeshift hostels should be with care and sensitivity. What toilet and shower facilities are there, what provision for fire evacuation, most churches would fail on that count, what provision for delousing, and fumigation, what provision for... well as Carlo said we should not be naive in making provisions for the homeless but be positive in ensuring the best provision possible, if it is only possible by allowing a cold, wet and bedraggled person spend a night sleeping on a church pew then that is what we must do. I pray we can do better.
Penfold

I didn't make the statement 'some buildings are not suitable for general use' but otherwise we seem to be in agreement.

God bless you for your generosity to the homeless but please do not take risks with your safety.

PAx


CARLO

:prayrosary:
Edited by CARLO, Tuesday, 11. December 2012, 23:07.
Judica me Deus
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OsullivanB

CARLO
Tuesday, 11. December 2012, 23:01
paul
Tuesday, 11. December 2012, 21:06
Carlo I too agree with some of your points. My church is not being opened to the homeless, far from it. Too busy with all the whistles and bells that occur at this time of the year!
Paul

We have bells all year round although I have yet to hear a whistle.

Oremus

CARLO

:betterLatin:

Those who are disappointed by this might care to pray for the intercession of St Claude, the patron saint of whistle makers.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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Rose of York
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The charities that provide facilities for homeless obviously had people who considered it was worth learning how to go about it. I can imagine the response if I suggested our parish were to follow the example. "We would not get enough volunteers" "the training would cost money" "Stop trying to change things, we are happy the way our parish is." "If we feed them they will only spend their money on drink."
Keep the Faith!

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Penfold
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Rose of York
Wednesday, 12. December 2012, 01:25
The charities that provide facilities for homeless obviously had people who considered it was worth learning how to go about it. I can imagine the response if I suggested our parish were to follow the example. "We would not get enough volunteers" "the training would cost money" "Stop trying to change things, we are happy the way our parish is." "If we feed them they will only spend their money on drink."
Alas you are probably right, and I suspect your parish would be the same as many others. Such negativity is however unchristian and people should be so informed. I agree that cash should not be given, as a general rule, but as in some parishes a fridge in the presbytery stocked with sandwiches made by groups such as the SVP can restock it daily on a rota basis, Simple Cheese will do, a supply of disposable thermal cups to provide tea. In some larger parishes a few people can volunteer to be in the church as minders, possibly combining it with perpetual adoration. As Carlo suggests one should be careful and ensure that no one is alone and that they are able to summon assistance easily if needed but these things can be done and are being done in some areas. If one were to contact the local police they might be able to furnish you with some figures for the number of people they found dead the previous winter, either in makeshift shelters or in the loneliness of there poorly heated home. Publication of such information in the Parish newsletter may help to remind the nay sayers of their Christian Duty.
I mention those who die at home because though we have rightly spent some time talking about the homeless there are also many who struggle in their own homes. It may not be that a simple good neighbour policy should be encouraged, look out for each other.
I know for some it is like banging ones head against a brick wall but one can always remind people that we are also held to account for our sins of omission.
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Rose of York
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I suggest we do not concentrate our concern for isolated people solely on fellow parishioners. The parishioner in need may be a couple of miles away. There are likely to be people in difficulty very close by. They are not all old. What about the parents with a young baby? When the temperature is below freezing point it is better not to take the child out when they go shopping, they might be grateful to a neighbour who offers to care for the child when the parents need to go out. A young person with no family living alone can be poorly, and need help. They will be glad of help from any person, young, middle aged or old. We need to drop the image of old necessarily meaning helpless and lonely. That can apply to any person.

If we help people at Christmas we must keep it up throughout the year.
Keep the Faith!

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OsullivanB

Mgr Urioste remembering Archbishop Romero
 
When he learned that miserably paid labourers in the coffee harvest had been sleeping outdoors in a local park after finishing their work, he threw open the doors of his bishop's residence to give them a roof over their heads. He had learned this from Jesus. I don't know how many bishops in the world would have done what he did.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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Rose of York
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CARLO
Sunday, 9. December 2012, 23:22
We should not and it is naive to suppose that we could handle what is required safely outside of those mainly big city churches where they have a lot of experience and support to call on.

Far better to support those publicly funded and charitable facilities that specialise in this work.

Pax

CARLO

:hereticrepellent:
CARLO can you give me one good reason why parishes not in big cities would be unable to gain experience and call upon support?

Can you give me one good reason why a rural community would not have people with the necessary expertise and experience? My village has a wide social mix. Our village hall is the finest community centre I have ever seen, with full accessibility to all whatever disabilities they have, wooded area, level walks, formal flower beds, wildflower meadow, indoor sports facilities, wonderful childrens' playground that even has a little wooden summer house set aside for youngsters who want to be quiet. This was achieved due to a close community being able to identify the gifts and talents available. The committee included tradesmen and women and highly qualified professionals. I am confident that any close knit community could provide for persons in need of shelter, and there would be people available who would know the law, or at least have the ability to find out what laws are relevant.

If, by support, you mean emergency services we do have police, ambulances and fire engines, with engines, not drawn by horses. There are nurses, doctors and first aiders, and the top guy from St John's Ambulance Service lives round the corner from me. Once a fortnight a large team provide dozens of two course lunches of higher quality than the average pub meal. I think they would cope with heating soup and making sandwiches.

There are no problems, only solutions. Seek and ye shall find.
Keep the Faith!

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Angus Toanimo
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Penfold, I note you mention about fire exits.

If a church does not provide these it should not be available to the public.
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OsullivanB

They should be located near the confessional.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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Derekap
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i know of a church where confessioals have been used as toilets.
Derekap
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