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Christmas can be a tough time of year
Topic Started: Thursday, 6. December 2012, 22:53 (562 Views)
Gerard

Last year, during the freezing weather, our parish opened up to some homeless men. We have only a very small "hall". There were, indeed, problems. But it was the right thing to do. I think we would do it again faced with the same circumstances.

Gerry
"The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998).
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paul

great idea, opening up churches for the homeless and destitute. Better to have fund-raising for such things rather than paying for a fancy organ in my church!!

Christ would not want to see tinsel and candles but genuine christian care for those less fortunate than ourselves.
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Rose of York
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CARLO
Sunday, 9. December 2012, 23:29
OsullivanB
Sunday, 9. December 2012, 23:24
Yes. It is clear from the Gospels that Jesus always put safety high among the considerations he placed before us.
Yes the Good Shepherd looks after his sheep.
On the night he was born there was no room at the inn.
Keep the Faith!

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Derekap
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Some years ago there was a TV programme about people who sleep on the streets. A particular man was taken into a Salvation Army Hostel but after a short time he left (voluntarily) and returned to sleeping in the streets. I suppose he didn't like the routine of a hostel. How is it the welfare state are unable to solve the problem? Is it that the street sleepers need to be encouraged and shown the way to seek help? I only refer to the UK of course.
Derekap
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CARLO
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Brave talk from those who want to throw our churches open and the spirit of it is commendable.

However there are churches virtually under siege from beggars, drug addicts and alcoholics where our clergy must often fear for their own safety if not their lives. I have seen substantial expenditure on some churches to protect the clergy from dangerous and persistent callers by day and by night.

So my point of view may seem 'un-Christian' to some but I cannot believe it is either Christian or sensible to put both clergy and laity at risk where the proper facilities, experience and back up are not available. Simply 'opening our churches up' sounds good and may get a cheer in this forum but for me it is irresponsible for the reasons I have stated.

Instead why not support the charities and public bodies that provide aid to the homeless etc in a professional and far more safe way?

Miserere nobis
Have mercy on us


CARLO

:hereticrepellent:
Edited by CARLO, Monday, 10. December 2012, 18:38.
Judica me Deus
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OsullivanB

You're right, of course, Carlo. Bah! Humbug! to that idea.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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OsullivanB

A Christmas Carol
 
``At this festive season of the year, Mr Scrooge,'' said the gentleman, taking up a pen, ``it is more than usually desirable that we should make some slight provision for the Poor and destitute, who suffer greatly at the present time. Many thousands are in want of common necessaries; hundreds of thousands are in want of common comforts, sir.''

``Are there no prisons?'' asked Scrooge.

``Plenty of prisons,'' said the gentleman, laying down the pen again.

``And the Union workhouses?'' demanded Scrooge. ``Are they still in operation?''

``They are. Still,'' returned the gentleman, `` I wish I could say they were not.''

``The Treadmill and the Poor Law are in full vigour, then?'' said Scrooge.

``Both very busy, sir.''

``Oh! I was afraid, from what you said at first, that something had occurred to stop them in their useful course,'' said Scrooge. ``I'm very glad to hear it.''

``Under the impression that they scarcely furnish Christian cheer of mind or body to the multitude,'' returned the gentleman, ``a few of us are endeavouring to raise a fund to buy the Poor some meat and drink, and means of warmth. We choose this time, because it is a time, of all others, when Want is keenly felt, and Abundance rejoices. What shall I put you down for?''

``Nothing!'' Scrooge replied.

``You wish to be anonymous?''

``I wish to be left alone,'' said Scrooge. ``Since you ask me what I wish, gentlemen, that is my answer. I don't make merry myself at Christmas and I can't afford to make idle people merry. I help to support the establishments I have mentioned: they cost enough: and those who are badly off must go there.''

``Many can't go there; and many would rather die.''

``If they would rather die,'' said Scrooge, ``they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population. Besides -- excuse me -- I don't know that.''

``But you might know it,'' observed the gentleman.

``It's not my business,'' Scrooge returned. ``It's enough for a man to understand his own business, and not to interfere with other people's. Mine occupies me constantly. Good afternoon, gentlemen!''
I truly don't suggest for a minute that this is Carlo's attitude or practice. I just think it's such a wonderful piece of dialogue that I thought I'd shoehorn it in here. It doesn't often enough get an outing, and seems to be relevant to the state of the nation in 2012.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." Herbert Spencer
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CARLO
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ANY SPARE CHANGE?

Any spare change?
Outside our church
Beside our porch
His beggar’s clothes
Our Sunday best
His beggar’s voice
Our Sunday rest

Any spare change?
We have given
In many ways
Any spare change?
On Holy Days
We turn away
From his beggar’s gaze

Any spare change?
We tell ourselves
Crime never pays
Any spare change?
We leave him there
A cruel fate

And pray not to meet again
At heaven’s gate.


(c) CARLO.2005
Judica me Deus
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Rose of York
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CARLO
Monday, 10. December 2012, 18:35
Instead why not support the charities and public bodies that provide aid to the homeless etc in a professional and far more safe way?
Why not carefully select a team of volunteers who are willing and able to be trained by charities and public bodies that provide aid to the homeless etc in a professional and far more safe way? Ah well we can always leave it to the Salvation Army and independent churches. They started from scratch, somehow they learned.
Keep the Faith!

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Rose of York
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Derekap
Monday, 10. December 2012, 17:23
How is it the welfare state are unable to solve the problem? Is it that the street sleepers need to be encouraged and shown the way to seek help? I only refer to the UK of course.
A high number of homeless people are single men who have left the armed forces following many years of service. They have no experience of shopping for food or budgeting for payment of utility bills. Another large group are youngsters in care, sent out of childrens' homes when they are only sixteen. They had no mother and father to take them shopping, they have no experience of their parents sometimes having to feed them on less money than they used to have. How does such a young person know how much to spend when buying food? How do they know what is a fair price for a tin of beans and a packet of sausages? Do they have any idea how much the fuel bills are likely to be? Going home from work to an empty bedsit, or being unemployed, must lead to loneliness, could drive them to seeking company in the pub, that is expensive.
Keep the Faith!

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Deleted User
Deleted User

As I understand the proposal to our parish, the homeless people who would be most likely to be troublesome for amateur organisations like us would be directed to the professional facilities in nearby biggish towns and cities. Those that would come to us and other churches would be selected by social services as suitable for our less professional care. That seems sensible to me and should relieve Carlo's main--and justified --fear of people wandering into this area naively.

At the same time I agree with Bernard's implied statement--forgive me if I have misjudged this--that a certain man from Nazareth would be impatient with petty rules and worries that stood between destitute people and shelter from the harsh winter weather

John
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Penfold
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The welfare state can at best provide a safety net for some but it can never and should never replace the compassion that we as Christians should show to others.
How we help may vary but all can do something. Churches and church halls can be used as temporary relief shelters but there needs to be more proper provision for the homeless to be able to find shelter. The Salvation Army have done and excellent job for many years and I would be inclined to seek advice from them. I would also suggest that such projects can be managed best as an Ecumenical venture, possibly taking over one of the ever increasing number of empty shops in town centres, and convert them into a temporary shelter for the winter season. A temporary fix of this nature is less likely to fall fowl of planning permission. In the long term however one needs to tackle the causes of homelessness and there in lies the rub for there are as many reasons as there are people on the street. There are some common areas such as those identified by Rose and I am sure a few others could come to mind however it is a mistake to assume that alcohol is a common factor or that they lack the skills to manage a domestic budget, in the case of many service personnel it is a lack of self worth and a false expectation that the nation will be grateful for the time they gave in its service.
There are numerous service charities that can help but some people are to proud to ask but many are just fed up. They have spent their lives commanding others and looking after the welfare of the troops under them, often they have sacrificed marriages homes and family in the service of the country. They own a home but it is their ex-wife and children and often her new husband and their children who are living in it.
As I said at the beginning compassion is required and each of us can do our bit either by supporting an existing charity or by helping to open a new shelter. It use to be simple to run a soup and sandwich service but today the regulations covering food hygiene and its preparation are more stringent than they used to be but with a small investment a parish can get people trained in food handling. However the attitude we should have is the "Can Do" rather than the "Ah but what about ..." that thwarts so many projects.
I pray for all who are alone and struggling to find shelter and warmth in this "Fine and pleasant land" and indeed for the homeless everywhere.
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garfield

this is also an area where different churches can work together effectively, if the salvation army or any other organisation are running a hostel or kitchen in your town then advertise it in your parish, raise some money for them or encourage volunteers to offer help
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paul

Carlo how sad that you no longer feel that churches should offer a sanctuary to the poor and homeless but pass the matter on to other organisations. Of course other organisations do a wonderful job but spiritual comfort is also needed and not always found in such establishments.

Has the church become too middle class to care for the poor? I appreciate the practicalities but remember what a priestly vocation is all about.

Why not put a sign outside every church re-directing the homeless and destitute to such and such an organisation?

Very sad, and to me indicative of the way the church is going.
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CARLO
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Paul

I think you need to read what I write a little more carefully.

I am only cautioning against the naive idea that all our churches can be safely or sensibly 'thrown open'. I give my reasons in my postings and some other regular contributors here have been kind enough to agree with some of my points.

It's not a matter of class or the way the church is going.

What are the arrangements at your church this Christmas? Is it being 'thrown open' to the homeless?

Pax

CARLO
:hereticrepellent:
Judica me Deus
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