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| EMHCs bowing to the altar, while carrying the Sacrament | |
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| Topic Started: Sunday, 2. December 2012, 18:35 (511 Views) | |
| Derekap | Monday, 3. December 2012, 13:01 Post #16 |
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My post #10 doe not refer to bowing to the altar or tabernacle as a probolem. |
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| Gerard | Monday, 3. December 2012, 13:08 Post #17 |
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Sorry Derek, you are correct. Your post no 10 did not refer to it as a problem though, like several other posts, quoted Angus' statement that it was a problem. Gerry |
| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| pete | Monday, 3. December 2012, 15:10 Post #18 |
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As we EMHC’s leave the church to take the Blessed Sacrament to the sick and housebound, although we are carrying our Pyx we still bow to the Priest at his dismissal. Whilst assisting the priest during Holy Communion the only times a EMHC genuflects is while HE/SHE is removing or replacing the Blessed Sacrament back into the Tabernacle. As far as getting rid of EMHC’s is concerned during Mass I’ve no intention of being drawn into that discussion: I would suggest you take that up with the Holy Father himself on “TWITTER” |
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| Alan | Monday, 3. December 2012, 15:28 Post #19 |
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These differences do not only happen in different parishes but also within the same Parish. Yesterday I attended Mass in another church within my parish. Several "procedures" were different. In the Entrance procession a Reader and another person carried the Book of the Gospels and laid it on the Altar. The Person with the Book then read the first Reading. Stood back and the Cantor approached the Lectern. Having sung the Psalm the cantor then retired to their seat after which a reader approached the Lectern and read the second reading. This person left the lectern and once the person had taken their seat a second cantor approached the altar to lead the Alleluia verse. When it came to the Prayers of the Faithful yet another Reader approached the lectern to lead the intersessions. At Communion in addition to the 2 EMHC's presenting the Chalice another joined the priest to distribute the Host. I observed this lay person Bless a. non receiving child. with the Host. A practice which I consider "questionable". In my view there was no need for help in distributing the Host as the congregation was no more than about 120. Frankly I found all the commings and goings very distracting to what should be a Prayerful time in the Presence and the company of fellow parishioners In the Church I normally attend we do not have the Presentation of the Book of the Gospels as part of the entrance Procession. ( we have no where to place the Book after the Gospel) At the liturgy of the word two readers and the cantor approach the Lectern together. The Cantor and second Reader are seated during the First Reading, Then the Cantor and second Reader take there places to proclaim The Psalm and second reading. The three then rturn to their seats having left the Altar together. The person who did the second reading then rturns to lead the Prayers of the Faithful. I find this all flows better and compliments the Prayerfulness. As an aside both Masses were celebrated by the same priest. |
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God Bless all who visit this forum, Alan. Add Catholic CyberForum to your favourites | |
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| Rose of York | Monday, 3. December 2012, 18:30 Post #20 |
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We used to have a similar situation. In a very small chapel with about 8 pews on each side it was impossible not to be distracted by the sheer number of people walking up and down the aisles. I thought of them as Jack in the Boxes. When I asked why we had so many readers, cantors and EMHCs a layman who organised everything said "it is so that everybody can be involved, anybody who wants to do something is given something to do. That is their right, lay involvement in Mass is meant to be encouraged." I used to go home feeling as though I had not been to Mass. Sometimes as I left I realised I had hardly prayed at all. My opinion is, have lay readers, I was one myself in my last parish. Have the minimum number needed at each Mass and select them from people who are competent to help us grasp the message of the readings. The reader is there as a servant, to make us aware of the Word of God, not to be happy "doing something". The same applies to cantors. Personally I find it easier to pray the psalm if it is said, not sung. To those who say there are too many petty regulations I say, it is good to know, when we enter a church as a stranger, how things will be done, to feel we are some great event that is in a familiar format. That makes us feel relaxed, at home, whether we be in Cathedral or tiny chapel. The Mass is about Christ. Lay ministers' roles are to serve Him. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| Penfold | Monday, 3. December 2012, 18:52 Post #21 |
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ALL ministers are to serve him, on that I am rigid
Edited by Penfold, Monday, 3. December 2012, 18:53.
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| Rose of York | Monday, 3. December 2012, 20:32 Post #22 |
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Yes, but as the ordained minister at Mass is acting in the person of Christ, there is a difference in the roles. I have experience of a parish where it was understood by some that the lay people who entered the sanctuary were of a higher order than the rest of the congregation, therefore it was thought to be appropriate that they take on many other non liturgical roles. How do we solve that problem? I say it is down to the leadership qualities of the priest, he is charged with the ultimate responsiby for all that happens in a parish community. Viewing a Mass on the internet I saw the priest processing towards the sanctuary with the Extraordinary Ministers, readers and cantors, with the altar servers bringing up rear. That can give the wrong impression, and it is one of the reason why I believe it is right there are rules and those rules should be followed. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| Penfold | Monday, 3. December 2012, 22:43 Post #23 |
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So you want lay involvement but not lay responsibility?es If a person wants to do a job in the parish then they should step forward, if they feel unwelcome or intimidated then the PP can try to encourage the "Old Guard (OG)" to open up and allow the new blood to have a go. One important fact needs to be remembered, the EMHCs have all emerged from the congregation because they are the people who do things, it is not that they take over because they are EMHCs. It would be ungrateful and unrealistic to deny this. |
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| Penfold | Monday, 3. December 2012, 22:47 Post #24 |
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... nothing. The priest stands in the person of Christ as he proclaims the Gospel, and confects the Eucharist but at all times he is a servant of Christ. |
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| Rose of York | Monday, 3. December 2012, 22:59 Post #25 |
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No. I want laity to acknowledge and carry out their responsibilities, properly, in a seemly manner. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| Rose of York | Monday, 3. December 2012, 23:00 Post #26 |
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I agree with that. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| PJD | Monday, 3. December 2012, 23:01 Post #27 |
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"... nothing. The priest stands in the person of Christ as he proclaims the Gospel, and confects the Eucharist but at all times he is a servant of Christ. " I would agree, but in technical terms am not so sure about proclamation of the Gospel, but would not make an argument of it. PJD |
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| Rose of York | Monday, 3. December 2012, 23:45 Post #28 |
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That is the ideal and, I think, usual situation. I do not suggest it is the norm but in practice there are exceptions to norm. I experienced it for quite a few years.
It is not ungrateful or unrealistic in a situation where it did happen, went on for years, until a new priest spotted the problem and worked at remedying it. That is why I wrote The priest obviously cannot and should not bear all responsibility, the word "ultimate" is the key. He is the one with authority, responsible to the bishop or religious superior for ensuring all is in good order. |
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Keep the Faith! | |
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| Gerard | Tuesday, 4. December 2012, 10:19 Post #29 |
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PJD, Not to make an argument but to confirm, I think, that the priest stands in the person of Christ when he proclaims the Gospel. Here is a quote from Sacrosanctum Concillium (it also is in the Catechism):
So I think this is pretty conclusive. But I think it goes further. Notice it does not say Gosel but scripture. So I think this means that when the reader (man or woman) reads the 1st or second reading, or the psalm, they stand in the person of Christ. Gerry |
| "The institutional and charismatic aspects are quasi coessential to the Church's constitution" (Pope John Paul II, 1998). | |
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| Penfold | Tuesday, 4. December 2012, 10:36 Post #30 |
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I agree Gerry. It is important for people to remember that when they read the Word of God in their homes or at Mass it is Gods word not theirs and that they should read not as a Shakespearian actor seeking to impress the audience with their delivery. It is the word that should impress the congregation not the manner of its delivery or the person delivering it. That said for those who lack confidence in public speaking it is useful for them to get some tips and help from classes run for readers. What is of greater importance is that they try to understand what they are saying, and so have some knowledge of scripture. I am tired of people coming dashing into the sacristy before Mass and asking how to pronounce this word or that, if they knew and understood the context it would not matter if they elongate the a or drop the H the meaning will come through, if they read with reverence and devotion. The Larry Oliver School of Church Reading should be closed down. |
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8:36 PM Jul 11