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Stone Wall Awards; ACCUSATIONS OF BIGOTRY
Topic Started: Friday, 2. November 2012, 09:35 (901 Views)
Angus Toanimo
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Apologies Rose (and Penfold). I did not see the apology and posted not realising. Sorry :angel:
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Mairtin
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OsullivanB
Saturday, 10. November 2012, 00:23
If members wish to discuss alcoholism and/or the licensed trade, could they please do so in another thread.
:topicbaack: :pl:
Yes, please, I for one have no urge to compare my Faith to frequenting a public house.

I'd much rather reflect on how Jesus constantly upbraided those who sought to occupy the moral high ground and choosing to surround Himself with the very people rejected by those same guardians of public morals.
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Penfold
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Mt apologies folks but my remark concerning homosexuals was ill-considered. Being homosexual is not the sin.

As for the publican, I am sorry that you do not wish to be distracted by this remark but a landlord only breaks the law if they knowingly serves a person who is drunk, an alcoholic is not always a drunk in fact most will quietly sit in a bar being little trouble to anyone or else they may be the life and soul of the party, the inner anguish of being an alcoholic being unobserved by those around and often denied by the individual concerned.
As long as no misconduct occurs the Landlord will continue to welcome their frequent customer and take their money. The problem with alcoholics that most are not drunks and most play a clever game whereby the illusion is maintained that they are just a regular who has no problem and a publican will do nothing to dissuade a regular and will frequently be all the more welcoming and continue to encourage the regular to feel at home thus continuing to pamper to the myth that their drinking is not a problem and that they are not doing anything harmful, either to themselves or to others,

Stonewall will welcome followers and encourage them to feel comfortable in their midst but that does not make stonewall a virtuous organisation.

As for Jesus mixing with the tax collectors and sinners, remember his own words.
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I came not to call the just, but sinners to penance. Luke 5:32Douay-Rheims Bible

He spent time with sinners not because he condoned their actions but because he was calling them to repentance. If there are those among you who consider yourselves just and righteous, as the scribes and Pharisees did, then you can not be forgiven for you make no act of repentance. Jesus condemned the actions of the tax collector, see the story of Zacchaeus, the prostitute, see the story of the woman at the well. He knew their sins and called them to repent, he did not condone their actions or pretend their sinful ways did not matter.
So Mairtin, Patrick and others, I think you ought to look more closely at the true message of the gospel before you condemn me and place yourselves on rather pompous moral high ground.
Edited by Penfold, Sunday, 11. November 2012, 09:33.
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Mairtin
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Penfold
Sunday, 11. November 2012, 09:32
Jesus condemned the actions of the tax collector, see the story of Zacchaeus, the prostitute, see the story of the woman at the well. He knew their sins and called them to repent, he did not condone their actions or pretend their sinful ways did not matter.
Where did he tell Zacchaeus and the Samaritan woman to repent?
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Penfold
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Mairtin
Sunday, 11. November 2012, 12:53
Penfold
Sunday, 11. November 2012, 09:32
Jesus condemned the actions of the tax collector, see the story of Zacchaeus, the prostitute, see the story of the woman at the well. He knew their sins and called them to repent, he did not condone their actions or pretend their sinful ways did not matter.
Where did he tell Zacchaeus and the Samaritan woman to repent?
Read the stories and if you really want me to take you back to Sunday school open a thread on the repentant sinner. I see no purpose in pursuing this issue on this thread and distracting it further. Jesus calls people to repentance and Zacchaeus, the Woman at the well, the thief on the cross all are examples of how the Spirit of the Lord prompted people to repent and change their behaviour.
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Mairtin
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Penfold
Sunday, 11. November 2012, 16:29
Mairtin
Sunday, 11. November 2012, 12:53
Penfold
Sunday, 11. November 2012, 09:32
Jesus condemned the actions of the tax collector, see the story of Zacchaeus, the prostitute, see the story of the woman at the well. He knew their sins and called them to repent, he did not condone their actions or pretend their sinful ways did not matter.
Where did he tell Zacchaeus and the Samaritan woman to repent?
Read the stories and if you really want me to take you back to Sunday school open a thread on the repentant sinner. I see no purpose in pursuing this issue on this thread and distracting it further. Jesus calls people to repentance and Zacchaeus, the Woman at the well, the thief on the cross all are examples of how the Spirit of the Lord prompted people to repent and change their behaviour.

Well, I have read the stories and can't see any reference to repentance; I clearly need some Sunday schooling so I will open the suggested thread. In the meantime, I note that you have gone from "Jesus condemned" and "called them to repent" to "the Spirit of the Lord prompted" which seems something entirely different to me.[/quote]
Edited by Mairtin, Sunday, 11. November 2012, 19:46.
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Penfold
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Mairtin
Sunday, 11. November 2012, 19:46
Penfold
Sunday, 11. November 2012, 16:29
Mairtin
Sunday, 11. November 2012, 12:53
Penfold
Sunday, 11. November 2012, 09:32
Jesus condemned the actions of the tax collector, see the story of Zacchaeus, the prostitute, see the story of the woman at the well. He knew their sins and called them to repent, he did not condone their actions or pretend their sinful ways did not matter.
Where did he tell Zacchaeus and the Samaritan woman to repent?
Read the stories and if you really want me to take you back to Sunday school open a thread on the repentant sinner. I see no purpose in pursuing this issue on this thread and distracting it further. Jesus calls people to repentance and Zacchaeus, the Woman at the well, the thief on the cross all are examples of how the Spirit of the Lord prompted people to repent and change their behaviour.

Well, I have read the stories and can't see any reference to repentance; I clearly need some Sunday schooling so I will open the suggested thread. In the meantime, I note that you have gone from "Jesus condemned" and "called them to repent" to "the Spirit of the Lord prompted" which seems something entirely different to me.
[/quote]Jesus condemned their sins, he called them to repentance and the Spirit promoted them to change their behaviour, all are connected and all are central to the whole Gospel which is a call to us all to repent of our sins, amend our ways and live as Christ has shown us.
I note you have opened the new thread but I am not going to continue this discussion for I am tiered of banging my head against the brick wall.

I am also tiered of the attitude that prevails in this forum that being Christian is a fluffy non-committal, libertarian, democracy. The bible is not a precise of the relationship between God and his people and it needs to be read and studied in context.
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Angus Toanimo
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Penfold
Sunday, 11. November 2012, 09:32
As for the publican, I am sorry that you do not wish to be distracted by this remark but a landlord only breaks the law if they knowingly serves a person who is drunk, an alcoholic is not always a drunk in fact most will quietly sit in a bar being little trouble to anyone or else they may be the life and soul of the party, the inner anguish of being an alcoholic being unobserved by those around and often denied by the individual concerned.
As long as no misconduct occurs the Landlord will continue to welcome their frequent customer and take their money.
A publican has a legal duty to prevent drunkeness. He has a legal obligation not to serve alcohol to those who appear drunk, the case of the alcoholic is neither here nor there but most publicans would refuse to serve a known alcoholic, especially if they are on an Order.

If a publican serves a patron who is drunk, even if no misconduct occurs, he/she is committing a criminal offence.

Quote:
 
So Mairtin, Patrick and others, I think you ought to look more closely at the true message of the gospel before you condemn me and place yourselves on rather pompous moral high ground.


I pointed out an error that I saw but didn't realise had already been raised and apologised for, and posted accordingly, afterwards. I am not condemning you, nor am I placing myself on any "rather pompous moral high ground".
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CARLO
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Penfold
Sunday, 11. November 2012, 20:29


I am also tiered of the attitude that prevails in this forum that being Christian is a fluffy non-committal, libertarian, democracy. The bible is not a precise of the relationship between God and his people and it needs to be read and studied in context.
I am not sure I understand this remark!

On what is it based?


Pax


CARLO

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Judica me Deus
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